Constructive Feedback: Equality, Diversity and Sexualization in Games



  • @suplextrain You bet. You are right.

    Is that what you want to hear?

    I utterly and entirely agree with you.

    Did I say that right? Oh, king of debate. Oh, lord of opinions.

    Please go on.



  • @frasafrase Arguing with people like that is often fruitless. They hear what they want to hear. Give them opinions and they want facts. Give them facts and they want sources. Give them sources and they question the validity. You can't win.

    Oh well.

    So hey. The new season of Jessica Jones will have all female directors. I'm excite.



  • @frasafrase said in Constructive Feedback: Equality, Diversity and Sexualization in Games:

    @suplextrain You bet. You are right.

    Is that what you want to hear?

    I utterly and entirely agree with you.

    Did I say that right? Oh, king of debate. Oh, lord of opinions.

    Please go on.

    Do you intentionally not read what I type? Here, I'll quote myself:
    Now I don't care at all about winning or losing a discussion, not one bit. I simply want to test and see if my ideas and beliefs hold water. I have been proven wrong many many times and I admitted it whenever it happened, so it's not like I'm close minded. I simply want convincing arguments, otherwise how am I supposed to be convinced?
    That said sometimes it's simply about me wanting to understand the other party.

    From the things I said above, how did you come to the conclusion you just did?

    I even asked you to clarify, I'll once again quote myself:
    Guilty of what? By all means elaborate.
    You're also doing this thing where you simply state that "You don't get it" without explaining how or why. So how am I ever gonna Get it if you don't explain what it is you mean?

    I am asking you to explain. I am not telling you that you're wrong and that I'm right. I am literally and directly asking you to explain why you think these things so I can understand your viewpoint. Based on the arguments you present I might even agree that I might be the things you say I am.

    Are my posts really this confusing that you can misinterpret their meaning so hard? Do oyu seriously view me as the close-minded person here when I repeatedly ask you and other people to elaborate and explain? To actually discuss?
    Well if you don't want to discuss then simply say so, because these comments you and El Shmiablo make really add absolutely nothing to this thread.
    I'm discussing stuff like Nadine, Bioware and Obsidian with thenerdtheword now and I think it's pretty pleasant and interesting. Why don't you try and contribute to the thread as well or at least try and answer simple questions?
    Again to repeat I do not care about winning or losing here. I want to discuss stuff, to understand what you mean, why you think the stuff you do and to challenge my ideas.

    @El-Shmiablo said in Constructive Feedback: Equality, Diversity and Sexualization in Games:
    The new season of Jessica Jones will have all female directors. I'm excite.

    Why do you think all female directors adds so much to the project? I'm assuming you think it's good that more female directors get work? Do you think these particular directors are good and is there any specific work they've done prior that you enjoyed? Any particular reason you're excited?



  • @suplextrain

    By all means elaborate

    OK let me elaborate.

    Me: "You force you're opinions too strongly"

    You: "What do mean? Please elaborate, all I'm doing is forcing my opinions strongly"

    I have trouble letting go in a discussion

    Me: "..."

    That's it. Let go sooner. That's it. You ask me to spell it out. That's all I'm saying. Do you read? Come in? Please copy? A single sentence.

    Do you intentionally not read what I type? Here, I'll quote myself:

    Live and let live. But you are missing that second part.

    I'm not aggressive

    Tell that to the ten page essay's you send as replies to single line responses. And bolded paragraphs.

    Are my posts really this confusing that you can misinterpret their meaning so hard?



  • @suplextrain said in Constructive Feedback: Equality, Diversity and Sexualization in Games:

    @El-Shmiablo said in Constructive Feedback: Equality, Diversity and Sexualization in Games:
    The new season of Jessica Jones will have all female directors. I'm excite.

    Why do you think all female directors adds so much to the project? I'm assuming you think it's good that more female directors get work? Do you think these particular directors are good and is there any specific work they've done prior that you enjoyed? Any particular reason you're excited?

    In this respect they will be better geared to produce a whole season of content made from a female point of view which is a big part of the core of the show.



  • @thenerdtheword Well, that, and because of this wonderful post I found on Reddit:

    "SQUID_FUCKER said:

    I'm with you here. These types of pro-female sentiments are always so divisive on here. Either through ignorance, misunderstanding of the issue at hand or just simple misogyny. The fact that the top comment is, 'who gives a flying fuck what the sex of the person directing the episodes is' is both embarrassing and completely missing the point of the issue and why this is important.

    It's been proven time and time again women in the entertainment industry, especially behind the scenes or below the line (and probably above the line as well but I don't really have any personal knowledge there), are at an extreme disadvantage compared to their male counterparts. I work in the industry, have female friends who do as well and I have dated women who were crew members.

    It was with my last ex that I saw personally how much of an uphill battle she faced and watched her lose out to her male counterparts who were sometimes far less qualified in terms of previous work, skill level and time in the industry. I watched her work three times as hard as I would for the same exact job. It really opened my eyes and brought the issue home to a personal level for me.

    She once lost out on an A/C gig to a PA who had never before worked in the camera department, when she was a skilled operator with plenty of television credits under her belt because the director didn't think a woman would be able to hold 'the big heavy camera all day long'. She once had a producer straight up tell her, 'if you want to work in this business, you better get used to opening your legs and shutting your mouth.' If I wasn't also in the same industry and department, I would've driven to set and punched him in the mouth.

    Hell, I've gotten gigs I was less qualified than her for while she never received so much as a callback. I still work hard and am well qualified now for what I do but I wasn't always and never realized just how different it is. She went to film school and has been in the industry for her entire career while I was a college dropout who just stumbled into it a few years ago and yet, we are both in our 30's and we are still on the same level, career wise (in fact, if she hasn't moved up the ladder any more, I am now further in my career than she ever was). I have seen her work, she has a good eye. She worked extremely hard on set and wasn't a complainer or gave off bad energy, she was always super positive and willing to shoot anything.

    It's crazy and really something that people should at least be aware of, in terms of why it is a very important issue for a lot of people. This is our livelihoods. To be positive, experienced, driven, qualified and good at what you do and simply not get the work because of your gender is simply wrong.

    Especially in a career where, a lot of us freelance and you can get a great gig, think you made it and a month later not know where your next paycheck is going to come from. Freelancing in film is a difficult choice in profession for even the most experienced shooters, so to be in that position without having the same advantages as everyone else, for no good reason, isn't acceptable. It's one thing to face the issue but just need one good shot to break in and prove yourself but to face that issue when you're having to prove yourself constantly, week in and week out, year after year? It can be discouraging to the point of seriously considering a career change.

    I know that redditors like to diminish the idea that this happens or act like, 'who cares? just hire the best people for the job' but a lot of times, that is exactly what these women are fighting for.

    In an ideal world, gender wouldn't make a difference and we would just look at work experience and resumes but unfortunately we are not there yet and until then, not only is this type of story a good thing, it is an important one as well."

    Eagerly awaiting Suplex's reply of "Yeah but I treat everybody equal so whatever".



  • All western TV shows can be directed by hardcore feminists for all I care, havn't watched a modern show since Stargate Universe was rightfully cancelled and I stopped watching TV entirely because it was only garbage left, and don't plan on it, so I'm not their audience anyway regardless.



  • @Musou-Tensei I'm a big Marvel nerd so their Netflix shows make me diamonds.
    I think they have some of the best fight scenes in recent years across television or movies. Look up the "hallway" and "stairwell" scenes from Daredevil at least.

    Also Luke Cage beating up thugs in a community centre/drug warehouse to Wu-Tang Clan's Bring Da Ruckus made me feel like a giddy little schoolgirl.



  • @El-Shmiablo said in Constructive Feedback: Equality, Diversity and Sexualization in Games:

    ...giddy little schoolgirl.

    Oh — schoolgirls! Feminist agenda confirmed. Everyone's a "hardcore," "radical" feminist. (That means they're feminists who don't wear pink — a real departure.)



  • @frasafrase said in Constructive Feedback: Equality, Diversity and Sexualization in Games:

    OK let me elaborate.

    Me: "You force you're opinions too strongly"

    You: "What do mean? Please elaborate, all I'm doing is forcing my opinions strongly"

    How am I forcing my opinion onto others? You're not elaborating here, you're again just stating things as if they were facts. Where did I force my opinions onto others?

    I have trouble letting go in a discussion

    Me: "..."

    That's it. Let go sooner. That's it. You ask me to spell it out. That's all I'm saying. Do you read? Come in? Please copy? A single sentence.

    This is because I try to create a discussion. If people for example tell me "You're stupid" I will then ask why they think I'm stupid. I give people the benefit of the doubt. I assume that they're reasonable and functioning adults that can hold a civil discussion.
    Even though I know some people just can't be reasoned with, I at least give them the benefit of the doubt, even when I probably shouldn't. This is because I don't like to handwave people's comments and opinions away. To simply think to myself "Yeah that guy is an idiot" and move on.
    I agree that I need to learn to move on better. I have already admitted this.

    Do you intentionally not read what I type? Here, I'll quote myself:

    Live and let live. But you are missing that second part.

    I'm not aggressive

    You say this as your own passive aggressiveness is overflowing, I hope you're aware of this?
    But I admitted that my bluntness and directness can make people think I'm being aggressive, but I don't actually do anything aggressive. I don't imply people are idiots (like someone else here) or anything of the sort.
    Have I maybe snuck in some snide remark or something? Sure, that's a given when I start to get annoyed when i'm met by clear aggression and a circular argument again and again. It's not like the people I'm arguing with here are innocent.
    Should I strive to be better and never try and resort to snide remarks? Absolutely. But I'm not a robot so it's an evergoing process.

    Tell that to the ten page essay's you send as replies to single line responses. And bolded paragraphs.

    I did that because I'm getting annoyed that my posts can be misinterepreted. Well it's either that or you and the diablo guy intentionally rewrite my comments. How else can I clarify myself? I have already repeated myself countless times already and I've tried to be as clear as humanly possible.

    But whatever, it's apparant that the whatever you can call the thing you, me and El Shmiablo is doing is only shitting up the thread, so I'll just stop. If you want to do the same thats up to you, but I'll stop. Feel free to get the last word in if you feel the need to.

    @thenerdtheword said in Constructive Feedback: Equality, Diversity and Sexualization in Games:

    In this respect they will be better geared to produce a whole season of content made from a female point of view which is a big part of the core of the show.

    But wouldn't you only really need the writers be female for that? Or do you feel that there is a specific feminine way of shooting and editing a movie?

    @El-Shmiablo said in Constructive Feedback: Equality, Diversity and Sexualization in Games:

    Eagerly awaiting Suplex's reply of "Yeah but I treat everybody equal so whatever".

    Well I'll give this discussion thing with you one more shot since you asked me to.

    I have two viewpoints on this:
    One, from a moviemaking perspective I really don't see how the gender, race or whatever effects the directing. Do you disagree? If so, why?

    Two, female directors are indeed in a minority. The reason for that I really can't say since I don't have a lot of knowledge or experience in regards to the moviemaking business.
    I have heard people describe it as being really bad for women and minorities. However I have also heard that both men and women of different races say that they feel that it's pretty equal. Another factor could be that since women are in the minority there are obviously fewer of them by default. Also to my understanding Hollywood is a very difficult business to get into and advance in since contacts plays a huge part.
    So the takeaway from this is that it varies greatly from place to place, but women being mistreated does indeed happen, but to what extent? I really don't know.
    So is it good to see more female directors? Sure. I'd also love to see more black, mexican, etc. directors as well. So long as their work is good I honestly couldn't care if they're from Venus and have 10 eyes.

    If however a woman would get a directing gig because she's a woman I personally find that offensive since pity got them the position to direct, not their hard work and talent. If I was that woman I would then try to work even harder in trying to make a successful and well liked movie/show to prove the pity votes wrong.

    So to sum up. Is it good to see more female directors getting gigs? Yep. Do I think that gender, race or anything like that has anything to do with the quality? That a mexican midget woman is a better director than a caucasian male? Not at all. They're both people.

    So basically both parties are right in my mind. They both raise good points. But they talk about seperate issues. One is about the quality of the end product while the other focuses more on people's ignorance on how hard it can be for a minority to land a job as a director. I don't really see any conflicting opinions here based on what you posted (since you didn't give a link I can't actually read through the comments more thoroughly).
    But to work through this problem you have to go at the source. The problem are the people in the moviemaking industry, not random people with no knowledge of said industry.