Did Fallout 4 Disappoint You (especially the RP aspects)?



  • I just started playing Fallout 4. Very late to the party, yes.

    Background info: I missed most of the media frenzy surrounding this title. I also didn't play many games over the past two years. I just had a reading week so I jumped in on a borrowed copy. My expectations were neutral so I wasn't entirely disappointed but I find it difficult to enjoy much at all after a good handful of hours. I really like New Vegas and Fallout 3 and this doesn't really capture much of either in my opinion.

    The first daunting aspect and the absolute major problem I have this game is that it uses voice acting for a character that you yourself create. I wanted to role play as a bumbling idiot. A pure melee and TNT brute who takes the aggressive route in most scenarios. His name is Ga'a'hl, the Terrible. Unfortunately, my character is forced to be rather civil and articulate in conversation, even with low intelligence. The camera angles didn't help much either. I remember the camera always on the speaker being a major complaint of Mass Effect in 2007, nearly ten years ago, so I'm surprised Bethesda didn't learn from another developers mistakes and direct for a more cinematic feel considering they added VO and camera cuts. However, I'm happy that could be turned off.

    Even with minimal expectations, I was disappointed that I couldn't be the character I wanted. Especially since in Fallout New Vegas, you had limited dialogue options when you were low intelligence and people even spoke to you differently. This specific scenario aside however, the dialogue and choices are often limited in general. On many occasions I run around all dialogue options until I finally pick the one the game wants me to. There is only an illusion of choice sometimes. I didn't recall this happen much if at all in the prior games.

    So I find myself thinking what I often do: Genre labels are better for selling games than they are in actually describing them. I want to complain about how this really doesn't feel like a role playing game to me considering the role play is almost predetermined to an extent. But then again, that is okay. It is what it is but if I compare it to other games where you play as a set character such as Shepard in ME or Reralt of Rivia in The Witcher, I feel like I truly have more agency over them than I do in creating what I aimed for with Ga'a'hl, the Terrible.

    Something that I LOVED was the Barbarian Axe and Armour Set. That fit my build perfectly and it felt great to use a weapon outside of the Retro-future expectations that Fallout 4 sets. With that said, I'm level 18 at 12 hours and I simply charge enemies without much care and I have overwhelming success as though the difficulty has been toned down significantly from Skyrim or New Vegas.

    I'm curious what long time fans thought about this game. Even a friend of mine who was obsessed with Fallout 3 and doesn't place as much value in role-playing as I do, found the game to only be worth a single playthrough as opposed to his obsessive play in F3. Maybe that's just maturity on his behalf but maybe it also speaks volumes to the game itself.

    How did you find RP in Fallout 4 to be handled?



  • I enjoyed Fallout 4, especially some of the later story beats, but did I enjoy it as much as 3 or New Vegas? Nope, not at all. You hit on a lot of the major points that make me not rank it highly already. To its credit, this was the first Bethesda game where I thought the main quest line had enough twists and turns, along with varied objectives, to make me care about it. I've always enjoyed their side quests much more (what's up, Dark Brotherhood?) but this game's side quests are.... lacking. I usually build an intelligent/charismatic character, someone that uses their brain and tongue to get out of nearly every situation. This worked well in the previous games, I had unique options due to my build and generally could avoid combat. Fallout 4 feels like no matter what you do, you will have to fight, over and over. Most side quests boiled down to kill this person... or kill this person instead of that one. The amount of creative solutions to problems just dwindled down to brute force - which actually sounds kinda fitting for your character, @GoTaco, but if you ever wanted to try playing a different way, it honestly wouldn't feel any different.

    Companions were probably the thing that improved the most from the previous entry and even then, it feels oddly stunted at times. You can basically fall into a relationship with any of them but then that's it - you can sleep in a bed with them and get a buff, but their arc, their story? It's over at that point. They really jammed a lot of companions into the game, going for the whole quantity over quality aspect. I would have much rather had a smaller cast with wider arcs.

    Overall, 4 sold like crazy but definitely lost some of the spirit that long-time fans appreciate from the game. They would be crazy not to release a 5th Fallout at some point, but I truly hope they take a look back at what makes the series so special in the first place.



  • When you say how you feel like you are forced to devolve into combat, I totally see it - but another thing I've noticed from my POV is that being a violent brute is almost entirely impossible in dialogue without the charisma stat. This stat being something I didn't see my character needing.

    For example, I've even tried to instigate combat in dialogue by saying things like "this is a robbery" to a store clerk and she laughed at me. Nearly all intimidation attempts fail so I resort to speaking my way. But I certainly agree with you that many many many of my missions so far involve fighting. This can be quite annoying considering the challenge disappeared after a few levels and the amount my companion gets in my way.

    I'm willing to see it through though. New Vegas really felt like a whirlwind. Almost like a Cohen brothers movie where a bunch of factions get zany and the player is caught in the middle. If Fallout 4 has better twists and turns then my mind is open. Currently working with the Railroad because they are allowing me to be a maniac and I can even talk shit about them behind their back.



  • @GoTaco I wouldn't say the twists and turns are better necessarily, just that the quest structure for the main story is more varied than the rest of the game. It dives into some fun territory when it starts going deeper into sci-fi (trying my best to avoid spoilers here) but I'd say the factions in NV are more interesting overall.


  • Banned

    Yeah, but you can pick up any object and mess around with it.

    That completely makes up for everything.



  • @SabotageTheTruth

    I've been longing for some quality sci-fi since I've become quite a (newish) fan of the genre over the past few years.

    I suppose this thread is heavily premature for having only played around 12-13 hours (still feel the way I do).

    @Art what button tho? Literally cannot figure that out. Held R3 in the other games.



  • @GoTaco Press and hold the button used to pick the item up, after a few seconds you should be able to rotate/move around with it.



  • @SabotageTheTruth said in Did Fallout 4 Disappoint You (especially the RP aspects)?:

    you can sleep in a bed with them and get a buff, but their arc, their story? It's over at that point.

    Stop. The Witcher 3. Mass Effect. Dragon Age. Tell me a single AAA game — or even adventure TV show — that doesn't cease character development after they fuck, then criticize Fallout 4 for it. Otherwise you're just holding the game to a standard that doesn't even exist.

    They really jammed a lot of companions into the game, going for the whole quantity over quality aspect. I would have much rather had a smaller cast with wider arcs.

    Yes, there were a lot, but they were also nearly all great:

    Think you know exactly how clever Deacon is? Look it up and reconsider your life.
    Valentine's detective cases and man hunt? Noir as fuck!
    Cait's comedic writing and personal quest? Practically crying.
    Piper's "after credits" scene? Priceless!

    And the kicker? You could totally miss any of these guys. Of course you get nudged in their direction by side quests, but no one else makes games as truly "open" as Bethesda does (especially not with as-rich environments). They're telling a narrative without cutscenes, without control over the set, without camera control — without any of the visual storytelling conventions humans have been building up for the past century. There are going to be hiccups and problems along the way. And I love cutscenes and linear games, but let Bethesda games do something different, because everyone else is "going open world" in half-measures.


  • Banned

    Oh shit. You criticized a Bethesda game. Haru will be here any sec---



  • Eh i don't know, Fallout went off the cliff after F2 for me, but i have to say i had definitely more fun with F4 than with F3. RP is solid, nothing special. I really liked the world though!



  • @Art said in Did Fallout 4 Disappoint You (especially the RP aspects)?:

    Oh shit. You criticized a Bethesda game. Haru will be here any sec---

    I mostly enjoy this cause you posted immediately after Haru.



  • When they go low we go — wait, I'm not Michelle Obama!

    Fallout is generic post-apocalyptic trash with a layer of nuclear proliferation satire that benefits it only by making the character designs that much more atrocious. Why can't we have fantasy RPGs anymore with? Bethesda should stop wasting their time propping up a franchise that died in the 90s — they don't even own it. The Elder Scrolls is better. People didn't complain endlessly about Skyrim's graphics because it had a more visually appealing setting. (gatSmugBosman)

    Satisfied? I am.



  • @Haru17

    You don't need to have a sarcastic defense, I am looking to have a discussion so differing opinions are fine.

    How did you find Fallout 4? You've already said its truly "open", but did you face similar issues as I did?



  • My immediate response to this question was "yes"

    I loved Fallout 3 and Skyrim, and living in New England I was excited to play around in Boston. So I did buy the game immediately, and it just didn't hook me the way I wanted. I did have a problem with the fact that it seemed to just be forcing me into combat, but I think the real reasons I didn't like it were all based around me.

    I didn't like any of the characters, or the factions. I also think I just changed from when I had played the other games. It was just not for me anymore. I also guess I wanted more changes.

    My BF though loved it and played it for like 50 hours. So it was a good purchase



  • @GoTaco [mumblewellitsnottotallysarcasticmumble]

    Anyway, I didn't realize you just started playing the game. Good a time as any, I guess? Dunno, I have a feeling the Skyrim 2 ZEITGEIST (okay now I'm being sarcastic) is going to carry us into the heart of reviews season.

    But about Fallout 4, I would say that it's about a 9 out of Skyrim's 10 with the additional label of "finicky" slapped on top. What I mean by that is, despite a lot of quality of life improvements and strides in narrative and level design, Fallout 4's clicking-on-people-to-talk busted just a little bit in three different ways.

    • The dialogue trees are bizarrely-written: The voice-acted protagonist is fine, but the dialogue writing is repetitive at times. Play Far Harbor if you want to see the good ending to this.

    • Uncertainty: Between save-scumming, missable content, and the very rare, very overstated side quest-breaking bugs, I felt an uneasiness playing Fallout 4. This is more of an consequence of playstyle / personality, but it nonetheless contributed to the game's "finickiness."

    • Actually not working: Unlike previous games, sometimes pressing the action button while facing an NPC just does nothing. This is a bit of a nuisance in a game as long form as Bethesda are prone to making. More so when you consider how it makes charisma characters' abilities wonky to use (this game is screaming for a mage class).

    Finally, about the pre-war set up: it's kinda lame, but it doesn't bother me as much as it does most. I think the "Fallout 4 forces you into being a dad" line of critique is nonsense. It's a game, using that kind of terminology is just silly. Their "stranger in a strange place" set up works just fine, and quite honestly I wouldn't want to RP in the apocalypse. Fallout doesn't have the kind of class-building options Elder Scrolls does anyway.

    Ending vibe spoilers under the tag:

    The ending is somewhat underwhelming but — like Inside, like Deus Ex — I wasn't as accursedly reactionary and hyperbolic as everyone else chose to be. And for the record Fallout 4 has several much better endings than either or those titles (as much as you can ever truly say a Bethesda game "ends").



  • I played it for a while after launch, got frustrated, haven't returned to it. Maybe during next longer vacation...

    Even though when I first play these games, I don't RP, I just go and do as many quests as I can. That's just to see what kind of characters I could RP well in game. But that's just me.



  • I haven't been impressed by a Fallout or Elder Scrolls game in a very very long time, so I can't say that I was dissapointed.
    F4 did do some stuff I liked, but the entire game felt underbaked.

    Also RP in big budget games will never ever be good since the higher the production values the more restrictive it gets. A videogame can't copy the RP found in a P&P game since it has to be scripted and design to only allow a finitive number of options while in P&P the only real limitation is the DM's imagination. Even the rules don't restrict a DM since rules can bend to make the adventure more fun or your group can create houserules.

    I personally think that with videogames the fewer options you have during the character creation process the better since it allows the devs to give you more meaningful choices and in greater quantities along with allowing the characters and world to react better to you, which is far more important.

    @Haru17 said in Did Fallout 4 Disappoint You (especially the RP aspects)?:

    Stop. The Witcher 3. Mass Effect. Dragon Age. Tell me a single AAA game — or even adventure TV show — that doesn't cease character development after they fuck, then criticize Fallout 4 for it. Otherwise you're just holding the game to a standard that doesn't even exist.

    Many games written by the crew from Obsidian (and Chris Avellone). The most popular one being Baldurs Gate 2, which pretty much kickstarted the trend.

    The problem is that romance is not very popular amongst gamers and when it is most players prefer working towards the conclusion of winning someone over and getting the sex, as a sort of goal. Most players would not be interested in developing a relationship and putting a lot of time and effort into it as a game developer would hardly seem worthwhile from a publisher standpoint in a huge AAA investment. So I would never look to AAA games to have good romance.

    Yes, there were a lot, but they were also nearly all great:

    I honestly thought they were pretty shallow and terrible. Though Valentine's had some charm to it at least, even though running around on a collectathon wasn't very exciting and the conclusion to that questline wasn't very satisfying.

    I also don't see the point of being different just to be different. If you do something differently it should at least be good, otherwise what was the point? I mean the writing for example is generally pretty bad in these open world Bethesda games (as is the technical aspects in basically a million ways, the engine can't even handle latters ffs so it has to resort to stairs and area transitions). With the writing it's easy to address by simply hiring better writers and limiting the number of characters avaliable to up the quality.
    When the quantity gets to the point where the quality of it really starts to take a hit it's time to pull it back in again, this is something the guys at Bethesda don't seem to get. Bigger and more isn't always better.

    Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed F4 but that game has tons of problems which it realistically shouldn't have had.

    This turned into a bigger rant than I intended...



  • I really enjoyed FO3 and NV, but couldn't force myself to get past a dozen hours in FO4. Part of it was because of the neutered RPG elements, and part of it was I just came off The Witcher 3, which takes Bethesda's excuses of "our game can't be that good because it's so big!" and kind of slaps them in the face with it lol



  • I loved 3, wasn't a huge fan of NV and really enjoyed 4. Its disappointing to see it suffer from many of the same issues that every other Bethesda game suffers from, but I played the crap out of this game and had a ton of fun doing it.

    I was sad to see some of the dialogue options go (I prefer more options to voice acting) and some of the story elements weren't that great, but that's not really why I play these games. I think TES and Fallout have some of the best open worlds out there, at least in terms of exploration. There's tons of buildings and "dungeon" type places to explore, secrets to find and strange, quirky story lines that only Fallout does so well (super-hero quest is a good example). This one also just felt better to play as an fps I think, so it made it more fun to roam around and fight things.

    To answer the main question, I think the RP could be handled better.. Lack of dialogue options doesn't help, but here's also Bethesda's tendency to boil everything down to "which faction do you want to join?". That doesn't leave much room for good RP in my opinion.



  • @Faaip said in Did Fallout 4 Disappoint You (especially the RP aspects)?:

    also Bethesda's tendency to boil everything down to "which faction do you want to join?". That doesn't leave much room for good RP in my opinion.

    True, but the factions differed enough to at least suit a style. I played a sort of wise talking charismatic gambler so the Mr. House line of running NV really complimented my character.

    As of now, I'm rolling with the Railroad because their quests involve killing so I'm justifying it through bloodlust but I don't agree with the sort of 'noble' reasons it kinda places on me.

    But yes, since NV's factions we also got a major subplot in Skyrim about factions as well and now F4. One thing I appreciate is how some factions hate one another as opposed to, say, Oblivion where I can be a cold blooded Brotherhood killer and a Thief who doesn't kill in the Thieves Guild, all on the same character.