The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (NS/WiiU)



  • @Haru17 I do agree with some of your points, mainly enemy and puzzle variety. This clearly could have been improved, and I'm sure is a victim of the already long development time. They had to make sacrifices somewhere.

    However, some of your other issues seem to simply come from the nature of the game itself, and it not being what you expect from a Zelda game.

    The choices that were made in terms of storytelling, dungeons and items all stem from the vision the team had for this game.

    The story was definitely simple, but effective. It had the appropriate level of depth, pace and complexity to match the overall game's design.

    Sure, there could have been 100 journals to read, but that means finding one in every single house, probably more. Wouldn't half of them just end up being filler?

    There could have been 8 dungeons instead of 4, but for them to fit within BotW's formula that would also mean 8 Champions, 8 cities, 8 races... It's just too much to ask for. The game's open world worked because of its density, because it allowed itself to not always offer something significant for the main story. Bloating it would have negatively impacted the sense of exploration.

    There could have been more items than the 4 runes, but that would have meant a longer tutorial before you're set free to explore and would over-complicate the gameplay.

    In my opinion, this game manages to strike a rare balance and even though we always want more of everything, we have to remember more is not always better.

    About "prioritizing listlessness over progression and level design", you're exaggerating. It might not have the same traditional progression as other Zelda games or RPGs, but it definitely does have progression. Don't tell me your character felt the same at the end of the game than he did at the start. You get better armor, better weapons, more hearts and stamina, the Champions' powers, and more importantly, you get knowledge. Of the world, of its mechanics, of its people.

    As for level design, if you mean traditional dungeons, sure. But in every other Zelda game, I personally find the overworld boring as hell (except in Skyward Sword), and only the dungeons are any fun. Here, it's the opposite, the entire world is intricately designed and there's a new adventure around every corner. The shrines are here to punctuate your progress, they're not the be-all and end-all of the game.

    So of course you're free to dislike this formula and prefer other Zelda games, that's like arguing about which Final Fantasy is the best. But what Breath of the Wild set out to do, it did expertly, and I'm sure a lot of copycats that will come out in the next few years won't manage to replicate its magic, nor should they try.



  • @Haru17 said in The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (Switch/WiiU):

    You're just broadcasting another instance of 'correct opinions' — expecting everyone to conform to the majority opinion and making a fuss over those that disagree.

    I'm not singling anybody out, I'm pointing out that the majority on this forum appears to contradict the majority on the rest of the internet.

    This scarcity and copy paste crap invalidates the entire purpose of an open world game: building a world. The JRPG-structured 3D Zelda games and The Wind Waker didn't have that problem because they included unique items and enemies in each region that added to the unique character of the place. With the exception of Gerudo every region in Breath of the Wild has the same enemies, the same-looking shrines, the same items, what have you.

    To me, Breath of the Wild feels like an exceedingly short and one-note actual Zelda game spread over a vast amount of open world filler. If you don't want to hear that perspective in such a high proportion, then you could also post in this thread when news breaks or you want to discuss part of the game.

    I opened my review with "one can not help but compare this to The Elder Scrolls", another critically acclaimed franchise, especially noted for its incredibly flexible sandbox (move anything anywhere, do what you want in any order). Both games rely on copy/paste to scale the world. But that's not the point. Nor are key items or even the main quest (when has anybody preferred the main quest in an Elder Scrolls game over the guilds?) These games prioritize freedom and discovery over a neatly packaged experience. Yes, you do fight a lot of samey enemies. But you can fight them any way you want (and there are a lot of ways in both games, possibly more in BotW, though TES has a broader attribute system), or choose not to fight them at all.

    The developers didn't take the easy way out, they did as much as they could given the scope of the game and the need to maintain the Nintendo level of attention to detail/polish. I suggest you not look at what's missing, but what's there. The wildlife, the armor sets, the AI, the runes, the gliding, the climbing, the beautiful towns, the character personalities, the smooth transitions between areas, the joy of just running and jumping and taking pictures.

    @Mbun said in The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (Switch/WiiU):

    You forgot to mention the final boss is trash and the DLC so far is a huge disappointment.

    "Trash" is a strong word. There was a lot of missed potential in the final boss, and even moreso in the dungeon bosses, but they all looked great and had cool looking moves and cool environments. "Passable" is the word I'd use for them.



  • You don't play TES for its combat system, at least not melee, you play it for its story. In that aspect and certainly in the visual sense Skyrim's world is a lot more diverse than Breath's. Like, cutting down trees is cool, but I was never once interested in what I was doing in any of the forests across Hyrule. Eggs. Deer. Flowers; that's about the extent of it.

    And I have to ask: if you're not fighting in Breath of the Wild, what are you doing? Shrines take like 5 minutes each and Korok seeds are well hidden even if it's obvious what you have to do once you find them after 15 hours. Side quests, I guess, but many of those are just more combat.

    Believe me, I wish Breath took inspiration from The Elder Scrolls, but points of interest? Nope, have some more barren plains and the most boring forests in the franchise. Lore in dungeons and quests? Not really, not anything deep or consistent enough to be memorable. The compass? Nope, there are a bunch of invisible named locations on the map that look the same as the other 5 barren ruins they were copied and pasted from. Unique dungeons? Not a chance, Breath's dungeons all had the same wallpaper and were completely divorced from quests once you entered, while Skyrim had a bunch of surprises across its actually 130+ crypts, castles, caves, and buried cities.

    The one TES thing Breath got right was the continent open world design. That is, lumping all of the areas together in one large map that's like a lumpy circle or a curvy square so exploration is smoother. But even then going from one area to another is inconsistent and clunky, with huge featureless cliffs jutting up randomly north of Zora's Domain and Faron, and huge barren expanses of land in the north and west like the level designers forgot that people were going to look around there.

    You can make excuses about the developers putting as much thought into this game as other Zeldas, but I have quotes straight from the horse's mouth that contradict them. As long as you all are asking me to look at what Breath does, I'll ask right back what is the point of Breath of the Wild? What is the 10 minutes of the game that is just quintessential Breath of the Wild experience? And about that slice, is 5 of it walking and climbing across featureless terrain?

    The combat system is only good for an open world game, it's not enough to carry the game. The level design is sub-par because most of the regions feel the same with recolored enemies. And the actual Zelda game in there is obviously worse than any of the past 3D entries, except perhaps Skyward Sword.



  • @Haru17 said in The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (Switch/WiiU):

    And I have to ask: if you're not fighting in Breath of the Wild, what are you doing?
    What is the 10 minutes of the game that is just quintessential Breath of the Wild experience?

    I don't get it, the way you talk about the game, it sounds like you took no pleasure at all in the simple fact of traversing and exploring this world. Yet you still spent 200+ hours completing it, even the freaking Koroks. Why did you do that to yourself? :D



  • @Oscillator said:

    "Passable" is the word I'd use for them.

    Trash still feels right, but just for you I'll lower it to disappointing. It doesn't earn passable when the final phase barely even makes an effort to attack you.

    @Haru17 You decide what those 10 minutes are. The game doesn't decide for you. It just lets you explore how you want with the toolset available to you. I understand this is a foreign concept to you since you prefer games where the 10 minute quintessential experience is watching a cutscene.



  • Sadly, I had nothing but frustration with the game. I only played about 2? Hours of the game, but it was enough for me.

    The start wasn't too bad, nice shot running into the world for the first time. Eventually that old man kept trolling me though and started to annoy me. My first major frustration was running to one of the mandatory shrines. It plonks one right on top of a cold mountain, so of course I suddenly notice myself dying because of the cold. No chance I'm faffing around clueless to find what I need when the guy clearly said just "go here". So I start save scumming just before I die in order to finally reach both shrines.

    When I finally got the glider, I found myself just running, and running, and running towards a marker that seemed miles away, my only interaction being two lazer things that pretty much one shot me and wouldn't get off my back. Once again, saving and loading seemed to be the only solution here. There was then some annoying girl telling me to stay off the flowers and then finally a village. The ..thing in the village then put another destination for me, and upon opening the map to see how far away it now wanted me to go, I promptly switched it off.

    The game's not for me, not by a long shot.


  • Banned

    @Sheria said in The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (Switch/WiiU):

    I found myself just running, and running, and running towards a marker that seemed miles away

    Welcome to open world video games.

    We hope you enjoy your stay.



  • Well, at least in GTA I can get in a taxi and inst-skip to the mission objective. Thing was, I kept hearing this world was full of something around just about every corner. All I literally came across was trees, grass and death machines for what turned into a good 10 mins of just running.


  • Banned

    @Sheria There is something around every corner.

    You're just not looking hard enough for those 900 Korok seeds.

    https://ibb.co/hH4BqF



  • @Sheria It's so hard to take this post seriously. You're trying to bruteforce a game, then complaining when it pushes back, then complaining more that you're having a bad time cause you're save scumming to continue bruteforcing the game instead of trying to learn at all. There's multiple ways to get around the cold, many of which are conveniently plopped right outside where it turns cold. While there's no taxi to hop in to play the game for you and bring you across the world to somewhere you've never been before, there are horses also conveniently plopped right off the Plateau, so you could've just grabbed one you liked and rode it straight to your objective if you had absolutely no intention of smelling the roses along the way. There actually is something around every corner if you don't go tunnelvision and remember to
    Youtube Video



  • I was simply trying to play it how I wanted, and I don't see how I was brute forcing anything when I was following every single instruction of the game so far. The old man said to mark three shrines, which I did. He asked me to complete the three shrines, which I went to do. Don't get me wrong, I don't want things 100% spelled out for me, but not a single, organic thing warned me of the cold and gave hint as to how to combat it. And why is this even in the game at all? It's a terrible design decision and about on par with Far Cry 2 and its malaria.

    I personally went from the plateau, to the castle (accidently) yo the village, and saw zero horses. In fact I saw zero anything aside from these fast lazer things, which basically forced me to consistantly concentrate on dodging just to stay alive as I ran.



  • @Sheria said:

    not a single, organic thing warned me of the cold and gave hint as to how to combat it

    Let's see from the top there's loading screens, Link shivering animation, when you start taking damage, the tip that flashes the first time warning you about it, and probably more games warnings I'm not remembering right now.

    @Sheria said:

    Don't get me wrong, I don't want things 100% spelled out for me

    I don't know. Sounds like you do.

    @Sheria said:

    to the castle (accidently) yo the village, and saw zero horses

    First off, if you ran through Hyrule Field that means your instincts to avoid danger are broken, which is backed up by you bruteforcing through the cold area. You should've seen Guardians and went another way or at least enjoyed your hellbent trip through somewhere risky to be at this point in the game, because if you weren't why not try going around another way? I know there's multiple groups of horses on that route, so you must have missed all of them, again tunnel vision chasing your waypoint. Just sad that open world games have done this to you where you're not exploring or even paying attention to your surroundings, just chasing a dot. This game has few dots to chase, and you're not required to chase any of them once you get off the Plateau, and yet you turned your brain off and went autopilot chasing it instead of taking your time, looking for a better route, or even scavenging supplies to make the trip easier on yourself. Of course you had a terrible time. I don't even know what you were thinking. Were you trying to crit path speedrun the game to get to something else or something?



  • @Haru17 said in The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (Switch/WiiU):

    You don't play TES for its combat system, at least not melee, you play it for its story. In that aspect and certainly in the visual sense Skyrim's world is a lot more diverse than Breath's. Like, cutting down trees is cool, but I was never once interested in what I was doing in any of the forests across Hyrule. Eggs. Deer. Flowers; that's about the extent of it.

    Certainly, TES contains more story than BotW. But what are you doing most of the time between story sections? Fighting, puzzle solving, collecting, shopping, and just taking it all in. BotW is a closer equivalent to TES than I expected given previous Zeldas being so rigid.

    And I have to ask: if you're not fighting in Breath of the Wild, what are you doing? Shrines take like 5 minutes each and Korok seeds are well hidden even if it's obvious what you have to do once you find them after 15 hours. Side quests, I guess, but many of those are just more combat.

    Finding new locations (fields, forests, canyons, stables, towns, bridges, rivers, lakes, ponds, swamps, snowy mountains, Death Mountain, the desert, ruins, enemy camps, mazes, visible and hidden shrines), collecting stuff (ingredients, materials, weapons, shields, armor, Koroks), completing side quests (combat quests, fetch quests, overworld puzzles, minigames), all the different types of combat (melee, bow, stealth, fire, rune, among others), and just taking in the sights (the wind blowing through the grass, wildlife running around, storms, sunsets, moonlit mountains, the insides of shrines).

    This is NOT a game for those needing constant scripted action and plot progression.

    Believe me, I wish Breath took inspiration from The Elder Scrolls, but points of interest? Nope, have some more barren plains and the most boring forests in the franchise.

    If all you see are fields and forests, you've got blinders on. Besides, TES has pretty much the same types of locations - they've just got a lot more to do in them.

    The hook of the game is how the world feels as a whole. There are glaring weak points, but even so, it just feels good to be in.



  • That's not a pre warning, that's just watching yourself in trouble when you get there, and there's still no indication as to how to combat it. Of course in not wandering off into nowheresville when the map is that bloody big. All it would have taken was the old man warning of that area, and perhaps hinting that he'd heard of some protection over to the east or something.

    As for avoiding danger? Crossing the field is one of the first things the game seems to want the player to do, excuse me of not expecting such late game threats all of a sudden.

    As for why I was chasing the dot? Because I was looking for the fun to be quite honest. Open world games haven't just taught me to chase a dot, they have simply taught me that they tend to be a number of fun challenges and sections, dragged wide apart by a load of boring wandering. Some are simply worse than others for me, and this was one of the worst.

    I don't want to speed run the game, nor however do I want to spend 100 hours walking off in the random distance, just in hope of finding something. There's a happy medium too all that. I've had plenty of fun crit pathing open world games before, I see no reason why I shouldn't try here, the game seemed to promote "playing your own way".

    I already said the game just clearly isn't for me, I'm simply explaining why. I wouldnt have had fun playing it the way you discribe, i can assure you.



  • @Sheria said in The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (Switch/WiiU):

    As for why I was chasing the dot? Because I was looking for the fun. Open world games haven't just taught me to chase a dot, they have simply taught me that they tend to be a number of fun challenges and sections, dragged wide apart by a load of boring wandering. Some are simply worse than others for me, and this was one of the worst.

    I don't want to speed run the game, nor however do I want to spend 100 hours walking off in the random distance, just in hope of finding something. There's a happy medium too all that. I've had plenty of fun crit pathing open world games before, I see no reason why I shouldn't try here, the game seemed to promote "playing your own way".

    You may have been getting some fun out of open world games, but not because they were open world. You obviously crave tightly crafted experiences. Trying to distill open world games down to those experiences isn't what they were designed for. Even if other open world games have been able to provide more of what you wanted, it's not BotW's fault for not. It provides exactly what open world games are supposed to provide, which is size, freedom, and openness, just with a bit less of everything in order to keep the quality of the individual elements up.



  • @Oscillator said in The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (Switch/WiiU):

    @Sheria said in The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (Switch/WiiU):

    As for why I was chasing the dot? Because I was looking for the fun. Open world games haven't just taught me to chase a dot, they have simply taught me that they tend to be a number of fun challenges and sections, dragged wide apart by a load of boring wandering. Some are simply worse than others for me, and this was one of the worst.

    I don't want to speed run the game, nor however do I want to spend 100 hours walking off in the random distance, just in hope of finding something. There's a happy medium too all that. I've had plenty of fun crit pathing open world games before, I see no reason why I shouldn't try here, the game seemed to promote "playing your own way".

    You may have been getting some fun out of open world games, but not because they were open world. You obviously crave tightly crafted experiences. Trying to distill open world games down to those experiences isn't what they were designed for. Even if other open world games have been able to provide more of what you wanted, it's not BotW's fault for not. It provides exactly what open world games are supposed to provide, which is size, freedom, and openness, just with a bit less of everything in order to keep the quality of the individual elements up.

    Oh I agree with you. I'm not blaming the game here, although I do think if it really wants to be that way, it may as well remove the bread crumb mission trail I was following. You were talking about people here not lining up quite with the opinions you see out there, I just wanted to point out that i'm unfortunately another that didn't enjoy it.



  • Has anyone played The Champions' Ballad DLC yet?

    I'm not too far into it, but so far I'm kind of underwhelmed.

    I was hoping for a new area / new story, but so far all I've seen is recycled content and new shrines which, while pretty inventive in some cases, don't feel worth the price of admission.

    Not to mention that the very first challenges the DLC throws at you are extremely frustrating for returning players. When you haven't played the game for 6 months,

    getting one-hit killed by everything is NOT a fun way to dive back in.

    I hope it picks up and there's more exciting stuff to come, but so far it feels like the bare minimum.



  • @Axel the shrines are fine but the combat challenges are dumb, still haven’t got past the shrines though . Too busy with xeno 2



  • Hyrule can wait. too busy exploring Alrest.



  • so i just watched all of the Zelda BOTW Ballad of Champions cutscenes.

    what bullshit. this game already had a really half arsed story and if Nintendo was going to add "STORY" dlc to this game they could have at least given us more than simply a 3 minute cutscene for each champion.