Frame Trap - Official Discussion Thread

  • All I want to say is I'm happy to see Upstream Colour get a mention. Good on you Ian.

  • Oh man, things in this Frametrap triggered me. The talk about League of Legends...

    It's okay to not like League of Legends or its eSport, but it's another thing to guess why people are watching eSports.
    Maybe I understood wrong, but when "'highschoolers' just watches streams, they don't play games anymore" in the context of talking about League of Legends or its proximity to League of Legends in the conversation just worries me.

    I'm not angry or have any animosity because I know that for gamers that don't follow the League of Legends scene, there are going to be misconception. So here's the lowdown:

    League of Legends is the most popular competitive game. The latest, official concurrent numbers was from 2014 is 67 million players a month, and this was before their big push into China and Brazil. Riot Games have set up season long leagues, not short-term tournaments, for dozens of countries around the world. Riot Games also support this enormous game extremely frequently as it gets constant patch updates almost at a bi-weekly basis.

    This sets up a cycle of people playing the game, people watching the eSports, the eSports becomes bigger, and the eSports gets even more people to play the game. It is exactly how Football (not handegg) is the most popular sport because every nation plays Football, watches Football, and lives Football. The eSports is big because the game is big, and the game is getting bigger because the eSports is big.

    And here's the subjective part, but when I first played League of Legends after formerly loving the original DotA Allstars, I understood that LoL is a really well designed game. That is why people play it. Not because it's just popular.

    Also, about the comment on commentary, sure, Seth Killian is well known as the former Capcom Community Manager and has been with the SF eSports scene for a long time, but the League of Legends commentary team are literal celebrities, and probably more popular than Seth by virtue of LoL being widespread. For example, David "Phreak" Turley hosted the Season 1 Worlds for League of Legends in his home. It was a super ghetto tournament, but he was committed and made it happen. Now he's one of the most popular commentators ever that's supported by other great commentators, and League of Legends went from playing in Phreak's basement to being hosted in a World Cup size stadium, the Sangam Stadium (for Season 4 Worlds).

    I know the Allies don't read the forum that much, but please, if you do see this, please, please, please check out the scene if you're interested in seeing how Riot Games have successfully made eSports happen Worldwide, because not even Starcraft Brood Wars had this kind of success.

    I mean just take a look at what I mentioned about Season 4 Worlds, the final opening ceremony:

    Youtube Video

  • The SNES discussion got so passionate! I wouldn't be opposed to a Genesis discussion next episode.

  • Problem is the Genesis plug-and-play already exists and has like 80 games on it.

    Granted I hear it's really bad as far as emulation and the controller goes, but still.

  • Did Ellis really not know the Inverted Castle reference? Is he an Ally that has not played Symphony of the Night?

  • So...who wants to tell Huber that Final Fight on SNES doesn't have coop? Passionate appeal though, i'll give him that.

  • @Ivalice I noticed that too guess that will be a correction on the next episode. He must have played it on the mega/sega cd

  • Huber needs to be exposed to the competitive Pokemon scene!

  • Huber with that Leto opening

  • damn, i was pretty bummed on the metroid spoiler in the beginning. The game just came out. sounds like all of that would've been cool to experience as a surprise. didn't help that he preemptively stated "this isn't really a spoiler".

  • I watched The Killing Joke, it was alright, then I watched this

    Youtube Video

  • Damiani; even though it doesn't use motion controls Xenoblade works better with a Wiimote and Nunchuck because you have the d-pad and analog stick on different hands meaning you can do character movement and combat menu movement at the same time rather than stopping and starting or using the Monster Hunter PSP claw method.

    I think the game would have worked better if each panelist submits an idea that would appeal to host, and the person with the least appealing idea has to commit seppuku, their idea gets rejected and the others go through. For the next round everyone remaining has to submit a new idea and so on. From 4 to 3 to 2 to 1 and the last person standing then gets to add in something crazy completely uncontested.

  • This bi-weekly week's millennial chit-chat put me in mind of Rosemary Tonks:

    'I have been young too long, and in a dressing-gown / My private modern life has gone to waste'

  • Hey Ben, I just watched the latest episode and you brought up that you wanted to get back into reading more. I'm on book 3 of the Obsidian Trilogy by Mercedes Lackey and James Mallory and so far the series is pretty awesome! You should check it out!

  • So, copying my comment from YouTube because I want to reach the allies:

    I feel Huber's struggle with swords and warriors, so I'll try to reach him and tell him that each artifact has hidden skins, and all warrior artifacts can become axes. The Arms one is called Arcanite Bladebreaker (in honor of the Vanilla weapon, you actually have to look for the greatest axe-wielding warrior and craft the axe), Fury has Dragonslayer's Edge (forged by fusing the axe of a God-King with two legendary dragon skulls), and Protection has Unbroken Stand (this one is not a hidden skin, so it's less epic).

    Great episode, as always!

  • I really loved the discussion this week about how others will try to invalidate your opinion if it doesn't match their own because it's been weighing heavy on my mind for the past few months and it seems like this type of behavior keeps increasing if anything. Recent "controversies" like calling anyone who didn't like the new Ghostbusters movie a sexist (even if they gave legitimate reasons as to why they didn't enjoy the film) have left a sour taste in my mouth and it was great to see the entire panel try to dissect this from many angles. Damiani's point of "everyone is trying to create a definitive list" really helped me understand things better, even if I really wish people weren't so hung up on game x being better than game y.

    As someone who doesn't love the Souls series or most Zelda games, I've absolutely been a part of conversations online and off where I'm basically told my opinion doesn't matter seeing as though I don't care for those franchises. I guess I'm a weirdo because when someone mentions they don't like something I hold dear, I poke and prod to try to understand why. Completely discrediting someone from a conversation just because their viewpoint is different than yours just feels... wrong. That ain't right.

    To sum up this already too long comment, it's nice hearing people you respect dive into a topic that has been eating away at your brain. It's even nicer to be able to share that moment with all of you, who function much differently from most of the internet. How amazing this community is still continues to surprise me. Thank you all.

  • Now this week we got ourselves a real Hottake. A really good conversation, it was interesting to hear about things other than games from the guys. About the society. Ian, you're awesome.

    But what was that about Easy Update and someone named Noah? Fan art or something like that? Got me interested to know more.

  • @SabotageTheTruth

    As much as I agree, this is a case of tackling the fish hook rather than the fisherman.

    Talk to someone face to face and have someone try that. How do they look? Abrasive, aggressive, unreasonable etc. Unless they're surrounded by cronies it's hard (thankfully) to shout someone down without looking like an arsehole.

    In comparison it's easy on the internet. Especially on social media. You control who you reply to. Don't like an opinion? Block. Want to fuck with someone? Retweet and set the dogs on 'em. Internet interaction does not resemble anything that has come before it. I hate this idea of "the internet shut me down". For all the faults, anonymous, wild west internet had a higher chance of filtering decent content. Social media is a blight, anyone trying to mine real actual opinion or truth from it is a fool.

    There is no everyone on the internet, but in terms of processing it, everything becomes monolithic. This forum hosts a wealth of differing opinion, nevertheless it would be facile to pick a few quotes and paint any give topic in a certain colour.

    tl;dr everyone should read Guy Debord's Society of the Spectacle.

  • I kinda really wanted a group hug with Ian at one point in that hottake.

    I love these sorts of deep conversations, and it is the main reason I love EZA and this forum, everyone is pretty accepting and polite.

    The topic of how you respond to businesses and celebrities' personal beliefs is so complex and situational. If a developer has a different political belief then mine, it likely will not impact my decision to buy their game. If I find out they hit women? Or are racist? Yeah that's more likely to impact me. So yeah, I gotta agree with Ian on that. Different beliefs are fine, but pushing hate is not.
    Of course there's also a lot to be said of the idea that a game is made by lots of people, and do you punish all of them because of what one person said or did? It's really difficult.
    In the end though you gotta go with what you feel the most comfortable with.

    Also, not surprising, but damn Sophie is just so adorable! Market some plush of her!

  • @Inustar said in Frame Trap - Official Discussion Thread:

    If a developer has a different political belief then mine, it likely will not impact my decision to buy their game. If I find out they hit women? Or are racist? Yeah that's more likely to impact me.

    Some people believe in hitting women...