Game of Thrones Discussion [Spoilers]
@tokeeffe9 How many should have died.
@ib0show I can't tell if that's meant to be a serious, childish or just a plain silly question.
I've already said it before, if you keep on putting characters into precarious situations and continue to save them deus ex machina style, those moments along with the deaths lose the impact the show used to be lauded for.
Is there a reason why a lot of GoT fans can't seem to take any criticism of the show?
@tokeeffe9 When a character dies their purpose has been completed so I asked who should have died and what would their purpose have been.
@ib0show You'll have to explain what you mean by purpose. Some examples please.
Seems like a strangely predictable way to look at when someone should die.
@tokeeffe9 Most of those characters have a bigger purpose to play e.g Beric Dondarion died 6 times and revived because he has a bigger purpose to play in the show. Thoros of Myr died to tell the audience Beric is on his last life. The Hound can't die till he fights the Mountain, Gendry needs to make valeryian steel etc.
My biggest complaint is the Winterfell story since it was created to kill Littlefinger. Littlefinger died after teaching Sansa everything he knew about playing the game and giving the dagger to Arya.
I agree this show has done some stupid things but they're running out of time to finish the story so they had to rush some things along.
tokeeffe9 last edited by
@ib0show That's surely a bad thing though. The hound can't die until he fights the mountain. That's just fan service.
If early GoT had been like that, Ned would still be alive, Oberyn would have killed the Mountain and continued on with his vengeance, Rob and co wouldn't be dead. That's the big difference. I'd argue those characters had a 'purpose' but that didn't matter.
Axel last edited by
@tokeeffe9 I agree with that. The thing that made most of the deaths in the first seasons so shocking was specifically that these characters still had a role to play, and were expected to live much longer. "Nobody's safe" was the motto.
Hazz3r last edited by
@tokeeffe9 But surely, equally, the deaths the series is known for also lose impact if every time the characters are put in a precarious situation they most likely die. You become completely desensitised to it, the same way a lot of people who have grown up around modern media have become desensitised to violence in general.
The trick is to walk a fine line, getting as close as possible to dying while maintaining a plausible chance of survival.
Are you going to tell me that you weren't on the edge of your seat when Tormund was crying out for help (incredible acting btw) or in Jaime's final conversation with Cersei before leaving for Winterfell?
I also don't understand how you can just say "That's not how it works." They made a tactical error, they have paid for it massively.
Is the only meaningful 'punishment' death? Does nothing else matter?
But characters have been put into precarious situations and got out of it. Tyrion, Dani, Sansa.. all in the earlier seasons. I'll get into this actually as again, you can see pretty much after season 4 how things just get more ridiculous in terms of people surviving.
Sansa & Theon - Jumps off a castle without even picking up a scratch. The snow broke their fall I guess...
Arya - Stabbed in the gut several times but somehow able to jump out windows etc the next day. That whole terminator sequence with the other one was ridiculous.
The Hound - This one I'll at least give some suspension of disbelief.
Jon Snow - Brought back to life and not for one second did anyone think he was actually dead.
And I can already read the comments saying come on, it's just a tv show which I would totally forgive if it didn't go out of it's way initially in being so ruthless.
To answer your question on Tormund and Jamie. No I wasn't because they've already shown this season is a setup season. They've preventing Jamie from dying so many times that they won't just kill him off in a scene only 3 people are involved in. On Tormund, he's still alive right now even with how the season ended and he'll probably get to Winterfell before the dead.
I'm saying 'that's not how it works' because it's an awful storyline. It's not believable whatsoever. All these people know what Cersei is like and there is no world where they'd believe this plan would work and they'd get a truce out of it. It's just complete nonsense. At what stage does a tactical error just come across as bad writing to you?
And just to point out, I'm not just talking about needing death to improve the show. Things just aren't believable. I've already talked about that whole silly expedition but you can look at other things too like the Sansa and Arya storyline was complete nonsense, just dragging out Littlefingers death. This is no more apparent than in the scene where Arya talks to Sansa in riddles when the two of them are alone. There is no reason for that scene to happen bar to confuse the audience. Immediately after his death, they're back to talking normally. That's just bad.
It's disappointing as there was a time when it was a great show but now it's a decent show with great production value.
Haru17 last edited by Haru17
Thoros, Benjen, and Viceron died.
TokyoSlim last edited by TokyoSlim
@tokeeffe9 gonna be honest, you should prob just buckle in. They are written into a corner and have six episodes left to try and tie it all up in some semblance off the same way GRRM told them he plans to wrap up based on two plus books that likely won't be complete for 10 more years. Lol
Just think of how many simultaneous plots, prophecies, promises, wars, invasions, etc that are left to resolve. Next season is going to be the Deus Ex Machina-est season of all!
How stupid would it be to make a final season over a year later with only 6 episodes? Unless they're like BBC series-length that would feel like an utter whimper of a way to end Game of Thrones. I can't believe that's what they'll do. They'll probably delay it even further out, but they can't have a short final season.
TokyoSlim last edited by
@Haru17 This season was shortened too.
@TokyoSlim Lol, I noticed.
TokyoSlim last edited by
@Haru17 Prepare for six more episodes. :)
Hazz3r last edited by Hazz3r
Benjen is unconfirmed tbf.
@Hazz3r I think it was just rushed to conclude his character arc.
@Haru17 Hordor is still alive as well, don't forget. He's still holding that door.
CGamor7 last edited by CGamor7
All I can say is that if ppl kept dying at the rate they were before we would have no characters left. The only thing I didn't like is the horrible pacing of the episodes. This was an issue in other seasons at times too where I would think to myself if your so crunched for time to fit story in, why are you wasting so much if on pointless drawn out scenes.
As for where the story is headed. GRRM said that many ppl already predicted things such as the John and Daenerys romance and who Johns parents are. Saying that he wouldn't change it just because ppl predicted it because that's the story he wanted to tell. From what I've heard and maybe I'm wrong isn't there more ppl alive in his books then there are in the show? It sucks that he hasn't finished the books to go along with the show but I'm not sure the show would be much different then now. I fully expect that the creators had conversations with GRRM to fully grasp the direction of the story.
Lastly as for the show becoming predictable, it's been on long enough where things don't feel the same and we know how it works. the story is now focused on the end game snd unfortunately you can't be creating more story threads. Things need to come together now.
Sentinel Beach last edited by