There hasn't been a single review of a 2D game in 7 months.



  • This whole thing is nonsense, why shouldn't they review what they like/want? I would say playing a game for a good chunk of time on stream and giving their opinion on said game is just as informative as a review sometimes. They have covered quite a few games that weren't AAA, they may not all have been 2D, but why should that matter? An indie game is an indie game. Ian did a full playthrough of an indie game called Obduction I believe was the name, and he did it because he wanted to. Watching that whole thing was just as good as a review if not better, depending on who you asked.

    They have 9 people, 6 people who do reviews (7 if you include the occasional review by Ian) and shouldn't feel forced to do a review. Reviews take time, and they already do enough work. I want them to want to review a game, not try and fill a quota.



  • @NCartwright15

    I never said they shouldn't review what they want. All I suggested was that the review selection process could be tweaked to include games that don't have million dollar marketing budgets. I assume this is what this Comments & Feedback forum is for, but I apologize if I've broken any rules.



  • @zen said in There hasn't been a single review of a 2d game in 11 months. Will we go a year?:

    I never said they shouldn't review what they want. All I suggested was that the review selection process could be tweaked

    You are implying that instead of selecting games they want to review and cover off a list of upcoming releases (which presumably also includes at least some of. if not most of the indie games you're talking about), that they should instead select more of the things you'd like them to review and cover. I'm not sure how else to read this. It sounds like that's exactly what you're asking for?



  • @zen said in There hasn't been a single review of a 2d game in 11 months. Will we go a year?:

    From a purely business perspective, Hyper Light Drifter received as many clicks as your Sniper Elite 4 and Dead Rising 4 reviews, while being a better-reviewed game by Easy Allies (4 stars for Hyper Light Drifter, 3 stars for both Sniper Elite 4 and Dead Rising 4), and requiring much less time to complete (Hyper Light Drifter sits around 11 hours long, Sniper Elite 4 around 20 hours long and Dead Rising 4 is 20 as well). You can double-check the math yourself, but three additional independent game reviews could potentially have garnered you 2x as many clicks as what you've received for Sniper Elite 4 and Dead Rising 4 for the same time investment.

    The problem with the comparison you're making is that the review for Hyper Light Drifter came out in April of last year, Dead Rising 4 came out in January of this year, and Sniper Elite 4's review came out this February. So let's look at that comparison:

    Hyper Light Drifter: ~30,000 views in 11 months
    Dead Rising 4: ~22,000 views in 2 months
    Sniper Elite 4: ~30,000 views in 1 month

    That comparison is extremely skewed due to how much longer the review has been out for Hyper Light Drifter. Instead, let's look at the other reviews in April.

    Dark Souls III: ~74,000 views
    Quantum Break: ~51,000 views
    Star Fox Zero: ~37,000 views
    Ratchet & Clank: ~34,000 views

    All big budget games sure, but from a strictly business standpoint, reviewing more indie games doesn't garner more clicks. I share in the sentiment that the 9 should play what they want to play and personally, I feel like they've done an admirable job of this. Hope you don't feel we're coming off as too defensive though, as we should all be able to freely share ideas for improvement here on this forum.

    L&R



  • @TokyoSlim said in There hasn't been a single review of a 2d game in 11 months. Will we go a year?:

    @zen said in There hasn't been a single review of a 2d game in 11 months. Will we go a year?:

    I never said they shouldn't review what they want. All I suggested was that the review selection process could be tweaked

    You are implying that instead of selecting games they want to review and cover off a list of upcoming releases (which presumably also includes at least some of. if not most of the indie games you're talking about), that they should instead select more of the things you'd like them to review and cover. I'm not sure how else to read this. It sounds like that's exactly what you're asking for?

    Not quite. A number of indie games simply aren't on the radar even three months in advance only to launch and actually be pretty damn good. Such shockers can occur even happen in the AAA space, the most recent example being Doom. My suggestion is that EZA could be sensitive to indie games as it comes to word of mouth. That is how the aforementioned games came to my attention. Alternatively, we as a community can make an indie gem thread to get EZA started down that road.

    Additionally, I don't think there is anything wrong with requesting a specific type of coverage. That is again why this forum exists. EZA has long presented itself as welcoming of criticisms and feedback as long as those criticisms are constructive. Suggesting that making use of this platform to share my thoughts is somehow a bad thing kind of flies in the face of that. I have done my best to be constructive. If I've failed in that attempt, I apologize.

    I personally don't care if the specific games I mentioned are covered as much as I am hopeful this spurs at least a small effort from EZA to slight expand their coverage to be more inclusive of smaller games.



  • @SabotageTheTruth said in There hasn't been a single review of a 2d game in 11 months. Will we go a year?:

    @zen said in There hasn't been a single review of a 2d game in 11 months. Will we go a year?:

    From a purely business perspective, Hyper Light Drifter received as many clicks as your Sniper Elite 4 and Dead Rising 4 reviews, while being a better-reviewed game by Easy Allies (4 stars for Hyper Light Drifter, 3 stars for both Sniper Elite 4 and Dead Rising 4), and requiring much less time to complete (Hyper Light Drifter sits around 11 hours long, Sniper Elite 4 around 20 hours long and Dead Rising 4 is 20 as well). You can double-check the math yourself, but three additional independent game reviews could potentially have garnered you 2x as many clicks as what you've received for Sniper Elite 4 and Dead Rising 4 for the same time investment.

    The problem with the comparison you're making is that the review for Hyper Light Drifter came out in April of last year, Dead Rising 4 came out in January of this year, and Sniper Elite 4's review came out this February. So let's look at that comparison:

    Hyper Light Drifter: ~30,000 views in 11 months
    Dead Rising 4: ~22,000 views in 2 months
    Sniper Elite 4: ~30,000 views in 1 month

    That comparison is extremely skewed due to how much longer the review has been out for Hyper Light Drifter. Instead, let's look at the other reviews in April.

    Dark Souls III: ~74,000 views
    Quantum Break: ~51,000 views
    Star Fox Zero: ~37,000 views
    Ratchet & Clank: ~34,000 views

    All big budget games sure, but from a strictly business standpoint, reviewing more indie games doesn't garner more clicks. I share in the sentiment that the 9 should play what they want to play and personally, I feel like they've done an admirable job of this. Hope you don't feel we're coming off as too defensive though, as we should all be able to freely share ideas for improvement here on this forum.

    L&R

    The general idea was that there were plenty of reviews of AAA games that didn't perform significantly better than the Hyper Light Drifter Review. Overwatch did only 5,000 more clicks. The Witcher 3: Blood and Wine did 1,000 more clicks. Battleborn did only 2,000 more clicks. All of those games required significantly more of a time investment to complete, however.

    If the difference in clicks is that negligible (pennies on the dollars), and the time investment to actually complete the game is 50% less, then what difference does it make to throw a bone to a six-hour game that is really good and could really use the coverage if it's still going to generate nearly as many clicks?



  • @zen said in There hasn't been a single review of a 2d game in 11 months. Will we go a year?:

    Not quite. A number of indie games simply aren't on the radar even three months in advance only to launch and actually be pretty damn good. Such shockers can occur even happen in the AAA space, the most recent example being Doom. My suggestion is that EZA could be sensitive to indie games as it comes to word of mouth. That is how the aforementioned games came to my attention. Alternatively, we as a community can make an indie gem thread to get EZA started down that road.

    Again though, EZA doesn't need to be "started" down any road, they aren't ignoring indies. You seem to feel like they're only reviewing, talking about, and playing AAA games. This is not the case, and what I'm taking umbrage to is the notion that since they aren't doing as many full reviews for indie games as they are for bigger games - that they are not covering or supporting indie games. This is patently false.

    Can they have different/more specific/better kinds of indie-centric content than they currently do? Sure. In that, we can agree, and I've already given some constructive ideas in this thread to that effect. :)

    Also, the whole "youtube clicks" argument is a red herring. from everything Jones has said on the subject, in the grand scheme of things, YT clicks are not a priority. In my experience with YT monetization, you're probably talking about a whole dozens of dollars of difference between their videos.



  • @TokyoSlim said in There hasn't been a single review of a 2d game in 11 months. Will we go a year?:

    @zen said in There hasn't been a single review of a 2d game in 11 months. Will we go a year?:

    Not quite. A number of indie games simply aren't on the radar even three months in advance only to launch and actually be pretty damn good. Such shockers can occur even happen in the AAA space, the most recent example being Doom. My suggestion is that EZA could be sensitive to indie games as it comes to word of mouth. That is how the aforementioned games came to my attention. Alternatively, we as a community can make an indie gem thread to get EZA started down that road.

    Again though, EZA doesn't need to be "started" down any road, they aren't ignoring indies. You seem to feel like they're only reviewing, talking about, and playing AAA games. This is not the case, and what I'm taking umbrage to is the notion that since they aren't doing as many full reviews for indie games as they are for bigger games - that they are not covering or supporting indie games. This is patently false.

    Can they have different/more specific/better kinds of indie-centric content than they currently do? Sure. In that, we can agree, and I've already given some constructive ideas in this thread to that effect. :)

    I feel the tone of my thoughts is somewhat alarmist, and in retrospect, exaggerated, which is what I think our biggest areas of difference arise from. I agree with you that they can have different/more specific/better kinds of indie-centric content than what EZA currently offers. I think our difference of opinion comes from my perspective whether this better kind of indie-centric content should be reflected in EZA reviews.

    I think we can both agree that in the very specific subject of reviews, such independent games have not been given a lion's share of coverage from EZA, especially in recent months. The reasons are clear being that in last few months have been hot fire when it comes to releases from the AAA spectrum, one great game after another. But that is why I made note of some games coming out in the future, including a couple that, as of this moment, are already downloaded to the EZA Switch.

    I love your idea of an indie-centric show. I'd definitely tune in for that, and if such a thing existed, I'd wager I'd feel less down regarding the review coverage of independent games in general on EZA.


  • Global Moderator

    @zen said in

    I love your idea of an indie-centric show. I'd definitely tune in for that, and if such a thing existed, I'd wager I'd feel less down regarding the review coverage of independent games in general on EZA.

    Realistically this is too much work right now I imagine. They are quite a small group (with the majority being part time)

    I really think Frame Trap is the answer to the issues you have however I do agree that they could go about improving the accessibility of it if they do have time.

    I think an excellent way to resolve this would be to look at how Game Informer do it.

    Youtube Video

    Basically, this would be an easier way to find the specific game you're looking for and it's also a good beginner learning session for editing. Obviously Jones/Ian/Don are already busy doing their own thing so it might give the others a chance to edit something if they have the time. Start off with the Frame Trap logo, discussion clip and end with a universal promotion bit on Frame Trap.

    It'd be a nice to have thing for sure but people should definitely understand the guys are clearly very busy.



  • @tokeeffe9

    But Frame Trap isn't a substitute for what is being discussed.

    The thread isn't here to discuss how Frame Trap should be cut and edited. It's to make note of the lack of coverage indie games have recently received and if there's something that can be done to deal with that, especially when it comes to review coverage. Please stay on topic and stop being so defeatist.

    Your suggestion is akin to a response to fans requesting an anime show, telling them that "Realistically this is too much work right now I imagine. They are quite a small group (with the majority being part time)... but people should definitely understand the guys are clearly very busy", and thus any anime discussion from EZA should be shoehorned it into Frame Trap. Lo and behold Ben and Brad made it happen even if it's only once a month.

    There will be a point where EZA grows its staff. If, and when, that happens, this thread is here to say hopefully EZA will review more indie games. It's crazy I have more faith in them that our words aren't falling on deaf ears.


  • Global Moderator

    @zen

    But Frame Trap isn't a substitute for what is being discussed.

    The thread isn't here to discuss how Frame Trap should be cut and edited. It's to make note of the lack of coverage indie games have recently received and if there's something that can be done to deal with that, especially when it comes to review coverage. Please stay on topic and stop being so defeatist.

    You're asking for more coverage of indie games (no longer 2D specific now for some reason) when there is already coverage of indie games.

    Also I'd suggest you look up the word defeatist as that really doesn't apply to this situation.

    Your suggestion is akin to a response to fans requesting an anime show, telling them that "Realistically this is too much work right now I imagine. They are quite a small group (with the majority being part time)... but people should definitely understand the guys are clearly very busy", and thus any anime discussion from EZA should be shoehorned it into Frame Trap. Lo and behold Ben and Brad made it happen even if it's only once a month.

    It's actually very different to that and interestingly shows you don't listen to Frame Trap as anime is indeed discussed there and it isn't forced on them to discuss that unlike what you're suggesting. Again what it does show is they talk about things they are interested in, whether that be an indie game, AAA games, anime, movie or whatever.

    There will be a point where EZA grows its staff. If, and when, that happens, this thread is here to say hopefully EZA will review more indie games. It's crazy I have more faith in them that our words aren't falling on deaf ears.

    In the end, what I'm saying will fall on deaf ears anyway because you clearly have no interest in listening. If all you want is them to review games that you like, tweet them and see if they have any interest in reviewing those games.

    Edit: Also I'll update the title since it is incorrect.



  • There's at least an hour and a half on indie impressions and etc. in this weeks Frame Trap, by the way.



  • I didn't read every post in this thread, but c'mon, but I'd just like to chime in that I'm completely okay with ignoring most 2D games. There are functionally endless amounts of indie projects and low budget games if you look on PC, and not all of them deserve even a sideways glance. Furthermore, I personally don't care much for 2D games in the majority of cases and only would ever want the Allies to cover a select few.

    Just thinking of the last year, Speedrunners, Crypt of the Necrodancer, Stardew Valley, and Inside come to mind.

    GT/EZA streamed Speedrunners twice (basically the best way to consume that game short of three other friends with controllers on a PC arranged for local multiplayer) and Inside was covered on several podcasts as well as played to completion at least once on stream. Stardew Valley really doesn't seem like the kind of game that would be conducive to a stream or review, since it's so grindy and a review doesn't really serve anyone, because the people interested in that type of game are already on it and vice versa.

    Finally, I would like a Necrodancer stream, but I'm not very bothered by its exclusion. There are a great many new, more ambitious 3D games coming out weekly that I also want to watch.



  • I was very happy with the Steamworld Dig, Shovel Knight, and Snipperclips coverage this week, along with the Frame Trap discussion on the indie games at GDC. The EZA game shadow dropped tonight was also AMAZING. Can't wait to play it. More continued diversity would be awesome and hopefully one of these turns into an official review. :)



  • Blood and Ben showcasing Fast Racing RMX and Blaster Master Zero respectively is fantastic. I will be definitely tuning into both, especially Blaster Master since I'm almost done with Zelda. Ben mentioned have review code as well so fingers crossed!



  • It has now been 19 hours since the Allies last 2D games review.



  • @TokyoSlim said in There hasn't been a single review of a 2D game in 7 months.:

    It has now been 19 hours since the Allies last 2D games review.

    Thanks for the heads up! Just checked and you're right! Will be watching the Fire Emblem Heroes review in a minute. Was interested in downloading it out but been busy with Ghost Trick. Hopefully, they can continue with this, and expand to new review coverage for independent developers (Fire Emblem love is always cool too).



  • @zen lol make sure you watch the review before you download it.



  • Don't Skip the 12hr Thursday stream, there may be an announcement about a new show you might find interesting. :)



  • Just in case you missed the stream, they just announced a new series written by Ben, called Don't Skip (which I cheekily pre name dropped)

    Don't skip is going to be a 5-7 minute non-scored impressions/review highlight show on smaller games, indies, and older/missed gems.

    The first episode is on Shovel Knight . They should have it uploaded in a bit.