Scorpio First Look Coming Thursday
LordBaztion last edited by
Bonus track 3
Haru17 last edited by
Sony and Microsoft have announced both first and third party / indie-scale games way too early this gen. Nintendo has as well with select titles like then-SMT x FE, The Legend of Zelda for Wii U, and probably some of the Switch event games / concepts (hard to tell without the benefit of hindsight and a timeline.
The problem is, Microsoft based some of those off of unrealistic expectations and slim, unsympathetic budgets. When those inevitably fell down, their word was appropriately damaged. Now just like Nintnedo, Microsoft is being questioned as to what games will come to Scorpio not of existing series, and what third parties will support the platform (in this case games that are optimized for the Scorpio, not just crossplatform games generally). Without the development resources a company like Nintendo or Sony has, the Scorpio is just a more expensive Xbox.
This is the entire piece of Forza 6 running on Scorpio:
Here in on vídeo
Gammill suggests that all of Microsoft's first party teams have been involved in the process of creating the Scorpio hardware. "[Turn 10] push us one way, 343 will push us a different way, the Coalition will push us a different way," he says. "Rare - they're pushing us a ton around Beam and some of the stuff that we may want to do there, so it's just great because we a super-strong relationship across the board with first party and it really benefits the platform, which ends up benefiting the customer."
The process of getting ForzaTech up and running on the makeshift Project Scorpio hardware took just two days, and according to Chris Tector, the majority of that time was adapting the codebase from an earlier XDK [the PC-based development environment] that dated to just after Forza Motorsport 6's ship-date.
"This is us. This is ForzaTech running 60 frames a second, 4K," Tector says proudly. "We're still running with settings that we would have used in Forza 6. Since it's Xbox, we're using EQAA, so it's like a 4:2 EQAA. That's the actual GP utilisation so we're only using 60 per cent of the compute to get to this. Importantly, I know I've just said it's like a Forza 6 set-up, but this is also including 4K content, so all of our build system - we've got authored assets for this set of the models, cars, tracks everything. We pushed it through and made sure the 4K textures were flowing through."
The surfeit of memory bandwidth in Project Scorpio ensures that the additional overhead of these assets only hits performance by one per cent. The demo itself consists of a full complement of cars stacked up in two columns, moving like a train around the Nurburgring GP circuit.
"This is a stress case. Like I said, we do a ton of work to prove out the performance of any of our titles," explains Tector. "What we're doing is we're letting the cars drive. The full AI is running, the full physics is running for them and then we're snapping them back into this fixed grid... And then we let the AI player drive around and this is one of the cases we use to enforce the [rendering] budgets. We do a validation pass since all the cars or all the tracks or whichever components are running within budget. That's one of the biggest reasons we can hit those smooth frame-rates. We get super-stringent about how we follow those."
Clearly, there's still a large amount of GPU overhead left over on Scorpio, so where can the engine be taken from there? Turn 10 is still working on this, but the quality settings from Forza Motorsport 6 Apex on PC can be fully invoked on Scorpio. Turn 10 literally ramped up everything to ultra and it just worked, with the game retaining a 4K60 performance level. As well as validating the capabilities of the new console, we also get an insight into how some ultra-level settings may actually amount to a rampant misuse of PC GPUs' capabilities.
"The crazy story here is that we've gone over our PC ultra settings and for everything that's GPU-related, we've been able to max it - and that's what we're running at, 88 per cent," says Tector, pointing to the utilisation data at the top of the screen. Right beneath it is the anti-aliasing setting - 4x, or rather 8:4x using the Radeon EQAA hardware AA.
Basically the game is a two days unoptimized port running at native 4k with 4k assets at locked 60fps with ultra graphical seetings and dinamic weather with a maximum of 88% of memory ussage. With a proper optimization and an improved engine Forza 7 is not only set to be the best looking racing game ever but also give a lot of hope for the performance of the console. As someone not interested at the moment in a 4k display ( I will wait for the World Cup to upgrade my TV), I can hope the 1080p version of the game is going to be astonishing in Scorpio, not with 4k supersampling.
More good new, guys, Scorpio will support FreeSync and next-gen HDMI, which means it won't have screentearing and will significantly reduce stutter.
@Richard Leadbetter said in Project Scorpio supports FreeSync and next-gen HDMI:
Adaptive refresh technology like AMD's FreeSync completely eliminates tearing and reduces stutter significantly by allowing the GPU to trigger the display refresh instead of adhering to a hard and fast 60Hz cycle. Essentially, the screen produces the next image immediately after the GPU finishes rendering it. The technology was pioneered by Nvidia's G-Sync, but it's the open standard variants - FreeSync and the upcoming HDMI 2.1 implementation - that Scorpio aims to supports. In fact, Microsoft has actually implemented the FreeSync 2 standard, meaning compatibility with HDR and full support across the range of potential frame-rates. Paired with a supported screen, this will even eliminate tearing on games running with adaptive v-sync with frame-rates under 30fps, something not supported on most FreeSync 1 screens (VRR range varied on a per-screen basis, with 40Hz to 60Hz commonplace).
But it's the longer term outlook that is arguably more important. There's a reason why games target either 60fps or 30fps: both divide equally into the 60Hz output of a traditional screen, meaning a smooth, consistent update. With the display refresh put in the developer's hands, arbitrary performance targets like 40fps or 45fps could be targeted. We've tested both on PC using a G-Sync screen running games with Riva Tuner Statistics Server's frame-rate cap in place and both of these frame-rates look so much better than the console standard 30fps. With games that target 60fps, performance drops down to around 50fps are really difficult to pick up on owing to the lack of tearing and reduced v-sync judder.
The only problem is that it will need a TV with vaiable refresh rates and HDMI 2.1, which will be avaliable next year. In the meantime, monitors with that feature can take advantage of it. I'm really loving how future proof is Scorpio, MS is making a console for the future, not just upgrading their curent console.
Yoshi last edited by
Will it actually have exclusive games i can't already play on my current Xbox One though?
if all scorpio is, is just a more powerful box but is otherwise essentially still just an xbox one like the PS4 Pro was just a more powerful PS4 and nothing more, then i literally couldn't give less of a shit.
tell Phil Spencer to get back to me when he's ready to announce something actually different about his new console other than "muh specs"
@Yoshi VR games will be Scorpio only.
It isn't just a PS4 Pro, it has new system features like freesync (which will be amazing when developers implement it).
E3 is for games, this is tech stuff only.
Yoshi last edited by Yoshi
@LordBaztion Phil Spencer said last year at E3 that all games on Xbox Scorpio would also be compatible with Xbox One and Xbox one S. where did MS say that VR games would be Scorpio exclusive?
LordBaztion last edited by
@Yoshi that's especualtion, Scorpio will support VR and it's highly unlikable that X1 will support it. The reason is that, unlike Sony, MS won't develop an in-house VR headset, they will allow third party headsets on Scorpio, so, there won't be an external processor unit on those to lever X1.
Yoshi last edited by
@LordBaztion when MS decides to start announcing some actual exclusive stuff for Scorpio then i MIGHT start to care about it.
at the moment i'm actually thinking about saving up for a PS4 for the Crash Bandicoot Trilogy Remaster now i've got my switch and have finished paying that off. probs wouldn't get a PS4 till much later this year though
@LordBaztion I don't think VR is going to be a big draw for Scorpio, considering it works on BOTH of the competition's available products, and the only supported headset is almost twice as much as said competition's.
Personally, I think the Scorpio is DoA unless the stars align for MS.
some exclusive games, and a promise they won't be cancelled
a reasonable price. I'm thinking it takes the current Xbone price, while the current Xbone gets a reduction
a stupid amount of advertising. Nobody outside of a small subset of enthusiasts care about Scorpio, and fewer people are actually sure of what this thing even is. Is it an upgrade? A new console? Microsoft themselves have been incredibly vague about it, and I'm honestly seeing WiiU signs all over again with Scorpio.
@Yoshi I suppose Scropio exclusives will come eventually when developers stop supporting the X1, probably when Scorpio 2 is out. Think of it as a traditional console generation, when Scorpio user base is large enough, developers will stop supporting the X1.
@El-Shmiablo VR is not going to a big draw to no one, it's a niche market whitin enthusiasts, I was just replying to Yoshi regardless exclusives. If there is a chance for Scorpio exclusives (games not present on X1) it will be VR titles. As a true exclusive (in no other platform), it won't have because of play anywhere.
I think MS' expecctation with Scorpio are moderate, it won't replace X1 from the begining (I estimate it will sell less than 10% of the X1 sales) but gradually replacing it as it becomes cheaper. That's why they are making it future proof, Scorpio features are something consumers will appreciate in the future and probably will draw the road for what PS5 should be.
@LordBaztion Oh I'm aware VR won't be a big draw for the Scorpio. Like I said, they have made it inherently difficult for it to be a draw, by making it exclusive to the Scorpio, being much more expennsive than the competition, and having less than half the consumer base.
When I say "exclusive games", I'm not talking about Scorpio exclusives, but games exclusive to Microsoft platforms in general. I now have an automatic scepticism towards new games announced for Xbox because, unless it is Halo, Forza, or Gears, I can't count on Microsoft to actually come through on their promises anymore.
Like Yoshi said, if it doesn't do anything the Xbox One can't already do (outside of things the acerage consumer gives zero fucks about like FreeSync) then what is the point?
Like you said, if the console itself won't have exclusive games because of "Play Anywhere" (Which honestly it seems like Microsoft is attempting to backpedal from lately) than what is the point?
@El-Shmiablo It seems MS is looking after the market of console gaming enthusiasts, people with multiple consoles, that plays many third party titles and are looking for the best console experience. I think MS realised that there is too risky business in selling a console to sell a couple of games, instead is a better a model to have a platform and sell services to the consumers that spend a lot in gaming. They rather sell a console to someone who plays many third or first party games and invest him into the ecosystem, than sell a console to someone who only buys two exclusive games a year.
Sure, it is a small segment but that is how you begin, first get the core gamers, then expand to the average consumer. Phil said in an interview with Ryan Mccaffrey, that they need to earn the right to expand their user base.
To clarify a bit, at first its headed towards the xbox enthusiasts but it's inmmediate expansion market its the console gaming enthusiasts. It remains to be seen if the console can convince someone to buy a Scorpio instead of a Pro.
Speaking about listening to the core, Black Ops 2 is now backwards compatible, which has been the top BC request since they launched their feedback site. I'm really liking how MS is turning itself into a consumer driven company. Now, they need to step up their game publishing and development efforts.
btw, there is a huge xbox spring sale with over 350 games for X1, 360 and W10. Should I make a thread about it?
@LordBaztion Its funny that Microsoft (it is actually Activision who is responsible for porting) is suddenly a "consumer driven company" because they added Cod Blops after nearly 2 years.
I saw people swearing Microsoft out every month on IGN's facebook page for not adding that dogshit game.
To me, consumer driven means not cancelling games, not ignoring what made your few games so memorable, and actually listening to the consumer.
Scorpio Dev Kit
Got to love how it says 60fps at the bottom. Set well development objective MS.
Compared to other Dev Kits
A piece by Gamasutra, mostly for developers
This is not a new challenge, of course; Sony beat Microsoft to the punch by releasing its own supercharged PlayStation 4, the PlayStation 4 Pro, late last year -- along with a mandate to devs that all PS4 games launching after the Pro be capable of supporting its beefier specs in some fashion. When we spoke to PS4 system architect Mark Cerny last year about the Pro, he said Sony was also having “conversations” with devs about patching their extant games to support the Pro. Some games were patched, but many had compatibility issues with the Pro; Sony eventually patched a “Boost Mode” into the console this year that sees some games gaining increased performance on the Pro, even if they don’t officially support the beefier console.
All of this is important because Microsoft is making a show of avoiding the compatibility problem entirely. The pitch to game developers, according to Xbox software engineering exec Kareem Choudhry, is that you don’t have to do anything to your existing or future Xbox One games to get them running better on Scorpio -- they just will.
Scorpio’s chief talking-point is 4K resolution: Spencer says Microsoft is trying a mid-generation console refresh because it wagered the Next Big Thing in television technology, 4K displays, would be adopted widely enough to justify building towards in the middle of the Xbox One’s lifespan, rather than at the end.
“I'm a strong believer in console. And what that appliance means in my family room, under my TV,” said Spencer. “I've said, and this is actually true, the planning for what happens after Scorpio in the console space is already underway. You have to think about it that way. Like, what is the next thing? We -- I -- are committed to the console space. We think it's critically important.”
@El-Shmiablo backwards compatibility on xbox one is not a port, it's just Activision greenlighting (re-licensing content too) the development job made by MS. If you are interested, here is a snip of the complexities of BC.
Too bad you don't like BO2, it's one of the best in the series but xbox users like it and are happy with it's inclusion. I wish Activision did the same for the Modern Warfare series but I guess for that one they want you to pay again.
More than canceling games, MS' problem is announcing them too early, that's the case with Scalebound, Phantom Dust Remake and Fable Legends (in this one there was negligence too). I'm entirely sure MS is picking new games, but getting the games in a presentable state takes around three years, because there's something I can be sure about is that MS is listening to their base.
And they listen, MS will start offering Self-Service Refunds for Xbox One & Win10
Art Banned last edited by
Got to love how it says 60fps at the bottom.
It really wouldn't have the same impact if they told the truth and had it say 24.6 FPS
CGamor7 last edited by CGamor7
Can anyone who actually understands this kind of tech explain how Scorpio achieves true 4K at 60 fps when you meed a gtx 1080 to do the same on PC. Maybe I'm wrong but I remember reading that the 1080 was 4K capable but it is the 1080 Ti that does 4K comfortably. I also understand Microsoft being able to do achieve this with their own games but will third parties be able to do the same? Will games be running at lower quality to achieve the 4K 60fps target?
@CGamor7 Console titles usually rub at graphical settings equivalent to medium PC settings.
Generally when PC games are benchmarked at 4K it is at high/ultra.
There is also the fact that console architecture generally has a lot less overhead, as it is solely dedicated to specific processes.