(No Spoilers) It's unfair to say Persona 5 is better than FFXV



  • @Descendant The development of P5 didn't begin until they finished Catherine. Reference

    Budget and development time absolutely matter. I guarantee Mass Effect: Andromeda wouldn't be getting so much heat right now if it had more development time.

    The battle system is very reminiscent of Kingdom Hearts, which is another Square-Enix property so I honestly can't give credit there. The summons are absolutely beautiful and I love seeing the devastation they create in the environment. Considering all the side quests boiled down to fetch quests, I can't say they really filled me with a sense of adventure.

    Who knew a game that talks about rape, societal reform, suicide, and abuse within the opening hours would be called safe? That's the last word I'd use.

    But hey, I think both of our biases are showing. You like FFXV more, I like Persona 5 more. I'll say this much - I don't think the Persona talk is gonna die down for awhile. Fever pitch time!

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  • @Descendant As mentioned I think you simply reducing the characters to their face value and I don't think that is a fair thing to do given that in the Persona games there's always more depth to them, again I can't speak for the FFXV characters.

    And those comparisons of the characters also don't hold up in my opinion when you look into them in depth.

    Yosuke is very different from both Junpei and Ryuji, and these two have their own particularities that definitively differentiate them, just because they serve the same role doesn't mean they are the same person with same motivations and personality. I can very easily say the same for Makoto and Mitsuru with their demeanor, and a comparisson between Yukari and Ann doesn't hold up to me. Again I think this only holds up if you reduce the characters to their most basic role and at that point we are only looking at the most superficial aspect of the game.



  • @SabotageTheTruth

    I mean...How can I be biased when I stated I enjoy both games? My argument wasn't that FFXV is better, I just think it's unfair to judge it, since they are two vastly different kinds of games.

    I mean FFXV didn't have Witcher 3 level side quests, but honestly Persona 5's sidequests arent much better...

    I wish Persona 5 all the success in the world, and I hope it goes on to sell millions of copies. I'm just saying it's unfair to judge as a whole "videogame."

    At the end of the day Persona is still a niche game, that didn't need to be rushed. FFXV and Mass Effect Andromeda are mainstream titles by big publishers who are trying to rush it to release by a deadline. It's unfair however you compare.



  • I mean, I hate Ryuji's role as the 'joke character' and basically every one of his texts... but Prompto is like ten times worse. He's literally in the game to fanboy-pander over Final Fantasy nostalgia like chocobos, which makes for some truly hateful fourth wall stuff.

    Persona's town systems may be a bit clinical and dated, but I'd take them any day over another Final Fantasy XV, The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, or Metal Gear Solid 5: The Phantom Pain where they literally lost the story for the trees in pursuit of the open world fool's throne. Those games are just more walking with less talking, which sucks!



  • @Descendant said in (No Spoilers) It's unfair to say Persona 5 is better than FFXV:

    The battle system was a lot of fun, made even the random battles a blast to play. It gave you almost an action game feel to its combat. The way your party talks on their own, says new stuff based on the areas that you are in, etc.

    It was ok. Pretty fun at first but extremely shallow and easy. I can't really think of any fights that actually engaged me and made me think. It was pretty mindless all the way through. The combat boils down to buttonmashing and it's so difficult to actually die that any tension the fights might've had is lost.

    The summons are a spectacle to watch, and the way they trigger makes them feel special. Most Final Fantasy games the summons are just mere tools, in FFXV they feel way more important to not only battle, but even the lore to its own world.

    I honestly thought the summons were handled terribly.
    Too few, the way you got them were pretty underwhelming (Ramuh was fine, but the fight with Titan and Leviathan were just straight up bad, only designed for spectacle and not fun or interesting in terms of gameplay).
    No control over when they got summoned, so they basically only got summoned when you didn't even need them (like Ramuh shows up to kill some random trash mobs). Well that is unless you found out the way to abuse them.
    There was no search for hidden ones or anything, you got all the summons through the story.
    In FF15 the summons were basically a non-factor in battle, so I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. In for example FF8 not only did they alter what each character could do, they gave you different options both outside of and in combat. You had full control of how and when to use them.

    The open world is fun to explore, there are dungeons to tackle, all kinds of different side quests, and I personally really enjoyed the car aspect of the game. Listening to FF8 music while enjoying the beautiful scenery was such a cool feature.

    Too bad that aspect was thrown out the window about halfway through.

    I can keep going, but all I'm saying there are plenty of postive things about FFXV

    I don't really see what your point is with this though? I can list positives for many mediocre or even bad games. Just because there are positive aspects to a game doesn't mean that all the faults the game has should be ignored. FF15 gets flak for numerous legit reasons.
    Even so, FF15 got an overall positive image from the media and the playerbase, so I don't see why you make it seem like the game is getting tons of unjustified heat thrown its way.

    And as far as development time is concerned, I think that point isn't as important. Just because a game was announced 10 years ago, doesn't mean the developers were actively working on it for 10 years.

    They actually were and that's why the game was such a mess. It got reworked several times and the development was a complete disaster. That's why the game feels so rough and like a hodgepodge of countless ideas. The fact that Tabata, his restructuring and his team managed to salvage FF15 into a playable state is what's commendable, not anything the game itself did if you ask me. Everything it did has basically been done better in other games and it didn't really push the genre forward in any way.

    I get it, you really like FF15, but that game isn't extremely well polished or well designed, so it's natural that it's a divisive game.



  • @Haru17

    (Persona 5 Spoilers)

    I also don't like how the party and mainly Morgana constantly accuse Ryuji of being stupid...It's pretty damn annoying how often they crap on his excitement.

    And yes it's sad that Persona's "towns" is better than MGSV and FF15.

    Speaking of MGSV, that is another good example of a game that does need some credit. It's the worse MGS in my opinion, but it still did some really cool, and new stuff for the series.



  • @Descendant said in (No Spoilers) It's unfair to say Persona 5 is better than FFXV:

    Speaking of MGSV, that is another good example of a game that does need some credit. It's the worse MGS in my opinion, but it still did some really cool, and new stuff for the series.

    Wait, we need to give MGSV more credit? It won a few GoTY awards, and plenty of people loved it.

    Either way, I'm unsure about the point of this whole post. Who is even comparing FFXV and P5 except that they're both classified as JRPGS? They're different games. It does no good to compare two different games, it's unfair on both.



  • Persona 5 is a complete game, XV is a quilt of unfinished ideas and rushed deadlines.

    It's unfair to compare them because they aren't even in the same league.


  • Banned

    "Ten" years of development.

    Yeah, like anyone really believes that. It was probably shoved out in roughly 3 to 4 years which is why the whole game feels rushed.



  • Persona 5 is better is almost every way, FFXV is a mess from start to finish with literally no soul



  • @Art said in (No Spoilers) It's unfair to say Persona 5 is better than FFXV:

    Yeah, like anyone really believes that. It was probably shoved out in roughly 3 to 4 years which is why the whole game feels rushed.

    Actually it was in development for possibly even longer. It was in development hell. It changed from a last gen (ps3) to a current gen game, it took so long to come out it had to go multiplat, they had problems with the engine, it changed from a FF13 spin-off to a mainline entry with the gameplay and story being reworked, Nomura was split between Kingdom Hearts and FF Versus/15, change in management, etc.

    If you read up on interviews on the development of this game and how Tabata had to come in and try and fix it (and how he changed the workstructure of the entire team) you actually realize how amazing of a feat it was that they managed to piece something together that wasn't shit. That is what impressed me with FF15, not the game itself.

    I didn't save any of the articles and other stuff I read, naturally, but here are 2 articles that hopefully shed some light:
    http://www.trustedreviews.com/opinions/the-secret-history-of-final-fantasy-15-revealed-as-director-hajime-tabata-bares-all
    http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2017/03/01/director-hajime-tabata-compares-final-fantasy-xv-development-to-climbing-mt-denali.aspx


  • Banned

    @suplextrain Can we really count stuff that was created, thrown out and ignored for years?



  • @Art said in (No Spoilers) It's unfair to say Persona 5 is better than FFXV:

    Can we really count stuff that was created, thrown out and ignored for years?

    Well I view it as part of the development process. The developers were actively working on the game during all that time, after all.
    There are many cases of when a game had to be reworked almost from scratch because what they had didn't work out. For example, Metal Gear Rising.



  • @suplextrain said in (No Spoilers) It's unfair to say Persona 5 is better than FFXV:

    Persona 5 is an extremely well-made and designed game, FF15 was and is a convoluted mess.
    FF15 is "condemned" for all the problems it has. It's impressive that they managed to salvage that game, but it's still riddled with problems.

    I personally didn't find FF15 to do a lot of things right (in terms of pushing the JRPG genre forward). Some interesting ideas sure, but they were poorly implemented. For example the idea of a roadtrip game is interesting, but it doesn't really feel like it since the longest you travel with the car is just to the backyard of Insomnia, after a certain point the car is basically thrown away (the moment you get on the boat).

    No, ideas are easy but implementing them well and making a great game with them is not. The only real respect I have for FF15 is directed towards Tabata and his team. On the other hand Persona 5 is one of the best JRPGs in many many years, addressing many of the problems present in the genre. That game pushed the genre more forward than FF15 did.

    ^ I agree with this.

    I don't find the things FFXV tried to do differently to be a benefit to the genre anyway, but what makes it worse is that it didn't even pull them off very well either. There's honestly little to nothing I want to give FFXV extra credit for.



  • @Art Really? heres a 2006 trailer

    Youtube Video



  • Xenoblade is better than both of them and all other JRPG's anyway so doesn't really if persona is better than final fantasy or vice versa at the end of the day. :3



  • @Yoshi said in (No Spoilers) It's unfair to say Persona 5 is better than FFXV:

    Xenoblade is better than both of them and all other JRPG's anyway so doesn't really if persona is better than final fantasy or vice versa at the end of the day. :3

    Nah man, Xenosaga 3 is where it's at (or just Xenosaga in general) ;)

    Youtube Video



  • If Persona is archetypal than Xenoblade characters are whatever is lower than that. A lower trope-ic level, if you will. Even just the generic girl love interest character in P3 or 5 is leagues more developed as an individual person than her equivalent in Xenoblade. Female Persona characters are actually allowed to do something besides look pretty. Meanwhile every action in XC is reserved for Shulk — perhaps the most hollow, uninspired anime protagonist I have ever heard scream at things. He is even worse than having a silent protagonist.



  • @Yoshi Out of curiosity, how many hours have you put into Persona 5 or Final Fantasy XV?

    Also, Xenogears is best Xeno game, for all time. Much love to it for throwing in some of Carl Jung's philosophies, much like Persona.

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  • @SabotageTheTruth

    Hey we agree on something! Xenogears is a very good game. Admittedly I never got around to playing Xenosaga 2 & 3. They need a remaster collection immediately!