(No Spoilers) It's unfair to say Persona 5 is better than FFXV



  • @Art said in (No Spoilers) It's unfair to say Persona 5 is better than FFXV:

    Can we really count stuff that was created, thrown out and ignored for years?

    Well I view it as part of the development process. The developers were actively working on the game during all that time, after all.
    There are many cases of when a game had to be reworked almost from scratch because what they had didn't work out. For example, Metal Gear Rising.



  • @suplextrain said in (No Spoilers) It's unfair to say Persona 5 is better than FFXV:

    Persona 5 is an extremely well-made and designed game, FF15 was and is a convoluted mess.
    FF15 is "condemned" for all the problems it has. It's impressive that they managed to salvage that game, but it's still riddled with problems.

    I personally didn't find FF15 to do a lot of things right (in terms of pushing the JRPG genre forward). Some interesting ideas sure, but they were poorly implemented. For example the idea of a roadtrip game is interesting, but it doesn't really feel like it since the longest you travel with the car is just to the backyard of Insomnia, after a certain point the car is basically thrown away (the moment you get on the boat).

    No, ideas are easy but implementing them well and making a great game with them is not. The only real respect I have for FF15 is directed towards Tabata and his team. On the other hand Persona 5 is one of the best JRPGs in many many years, addressing many of the problems present in the genre. That game pushed the genre more forward than FF15 did.

    ^ I agree with this.

    I don't find the things FFXV tried to do differently to be a benefit to the genre anyway, but what makes it worse is that it didn't even pull them off very well either. There's honestly little to nothing I want to give FFXV extra credit for.



  • @Art Really? heres a 2006 trailer

    Youtube Video



  • Xenoblade is better than both of them and all other JRPG's anyway so doesn't really if persona is better than final fantasy or vice versa at the end of the day. :3



  • @Yoshi said in (No Spoilers) It's unfair to say Persona 5 is better than FFXV:

    Xenoblade is better than both of them and all other JRPG's anyway so doesn't really if persona is better than final fantasy or vice versa at the end of the day. :3

    Nah man, Xenosaga 3 is where it's at (or just Xenosaga in general) ;)

    Youtube Video



  • If Persona is archetypal than Xenoblade characters are whatever is lower than that. A lower trope-ic level, if you will. Even just the generic girl love interest character in P3 or 5 is leagues more developed as an individual person than her equivalent in Xenoblade. Female Persona characters are actually allowed to do something besides look pretty. Meanwhile every action in XC is reserved for Shulk — perhaps the most hollow, uninspired anime protagonist I have ever heard scream at things. He is even worse than having a silent protagonist.



  • @Yoshi Out of curiosity, how many hours have you put into Persona 5 or Final Fantasy XV?

    Also, Xenogears is best Xeno game, for all time. Much love to it for throwing in some of Carl Jung's philosophies, much like Persona.

    alt text



  • @SabotageTheTruth

    Hey we agree on something! Xenogears is a very good game. Admittedly I never got around to playing Xenosaga 2 & 3. They need a remaster collection immediately!



  • @SabotageTheTruth gotta finish this game some day i always get 20-30 hours in and something always comes up.



  • @Inustar said in (No Spoilers) It's unfair to say Persona 5 is better than FFXV:

    Either way, I'm unsure about the point of this whole post. Who is even comparing FFXV and P5 except that they're both classified as JRPGS?

    Agreed. I'll admit I have been avoiding the Persona 5 thread because I want to experience the game myself so I'm not sure if there has been a lot of talk over there. This is the first time I have heard this complaint or even considered the comparison would be made. They are such different games its like comparing Battlefield and Bulletstorm.



  • @Tragosaurus We haven't been comparing it to FFXV at all, it's mostly just talk about how much we're loving the game. Lots of spoiler tags and such as well, I'd say it's safe to mosey on over and join in the conversation.



  • In other news: having an opinion on video games is totally fair. Even if it's that Life of Black Tiger is a better game than FFVI. It's not, but it's not unfair to either game to believe that it is.

    Fairness is a bad metric to measure opinions by.



  • The same coud be said of almost any game, for example the scope of Andromeda is larger than Persona, Zelda or Nier. However those are considered better games.



  • I can't find the article, but I remember a review on Persona 5 basically summing it up with "Better Than FFXV." And it kind of annoyed me.

    Mass Effect Andromeda, Nier, and Zelda arent JRPGs, so that's why it isn't necessarily the same thing. I understand that FFXV is an Action RPG, and Persona 5 is turn based, but in the end they were both highly anticipated JRPGs with both long wait times.

    I just believe on a technical level and trying my best to stay unbiased, that I think it's unfair to say one's better than the other. Due to what they both tried to accomplish.

    Obviously anyone can have their opinion. If personally people think Persona 5 is a better experience than FFXV, than by all means anyone can think that. I won't even argue that much, because I'm really enjoying Persona 5.

    But if we are talking about opinions...I prefer Persona 3 over Persona 4...but I guess that's another topic for another day.



  • So I kind of agree with you in your base premise.

    A mediocre game (like No Man's Sky) that has ambition is more interesting and holds more value than a game that may be better, but is mediocre (such as Watch Dogs)

    But I have to disagree with you that Persona 5 lacks ambition. It doesn't attempt to reinvent the wheel, but it's also unlike any other game series out there, so I feel it doesn't have to as it really has few competitors.

    While FF XV impressed me in the direction it wished to head, it always felt just too far out of reach, like I was looking at it through glass. Altissia is a prime example of this. In the promo material and trailers, it was shown off as this giant, sprawling city. But when you arrived in game, you were forced to travel around by gondolier and it felt incredibly restricting and small by coparisson.

    I guess my point is that while I agree with your premise, P5 and FF XV don't exactly fit in that mold.



  • @Alex840 said in (No Spoilers) It's unfair to say Persona 5 is better than FFXV:

    it really has few competitors

    isn't persona just Junior Shin Megami Tensei?



  • @Yoshi It's part of the same series and uses similar themes, demons, and mechanics (such as negotiations). The reason for the split is SMT games tend to involve the apocalypse (Persona doesn't) and there's a shift in telling a more character driven story with Persona.

    Also a bit bummed you dodged the question about how many hours you put into FFXV and Persona 5. A person wouldn't call them lesser games without having actually played them... right?

    Interesting unrelated fact - if you google "smug Bloodworth" pictures of Kyle Bosman appear first. That ain't right.



  • @SabotageTheTruth said in (No Spoilers) It's unfair to say Persona 5 is better than FFXV:

    Also a bit bummed you dodged the question about how many hours you put into FFXV and Persona 5. A person wouldn't call them lesser games without having actually played them... right?

    that's such a stupid argument "you HAVE to play something in order to be able to judge it".

    no i don't. i don't need to play every single COD game to know that they are all basically the same shit with a different skin and that they're shit. you've played one COD you'v played them all.

    i'm not going to waste my time playing EVERY single game thats out there just so i can say which game is better than another



  • @Yoshi I just don't believe there's any value in commenting in a thread specifically about two games you haven't played and have no interest in playing. "Don't knock it until you try it," is a cliche because well... it's true. You can absolutely judge something at face value but that's a shallow representation of the product as a whole. When the conversation revolves around the specifics of two titles that can't be ascertained from trailers alone, antagonizing both games with no true knowledge of either doesn't add any value to the discussion. If you want to talk about the merits of Xenoblade, I'd suggest creating your own topic and starting a conversation there.

    One other thing I wanted to touch on briefly about FFXV that I'm ashamed I didn't mention earlier is the proposed patch of story that is supposed to be coming out soon. While I do like the fact they recognized a lot of people had issues with the story as a whole (especially a specific chapter), I hope this doesn't set a precedent for the rest of the industry. The idea that those playing the game on release are missing out on story elements feels... bad. As long as it's a situation that sticks to FFXV and doesn't spread, I'm all for it.



  • @Yoshi said in (No Spoilers) It's unfair to say Persona 5 is better than FFXV:

    @SabotageTheTruth said in (No Spoilers) It's unfair to say Persona 5 is better than FFXV:

    Also a bit bummed you dodged the question about how many hours you put into FFXV and Persona 5. A person wouldn't call them lesser games without having actually played them... right?

    that's such a stupid argument "you HAVE to play something in order to be able to judge it".

    no i don't. i don't need to play every single COD game to know that they are all basically the same shit with a different skin and that they're shit. you've played one COD you'v played them all.

    i'm not going to waste my time playing EVERY single game thats out there just so i can say which game is better than another

    Just to make one thing clear. There's a diffence between having an opinion and an educated opinion. For example, until you've actually played something it's all theoretical.
    To use CoD as an example, I haven't been interested in CoD since 4 (and to a smaller degree, MW2). I thought all the games looked like something I would no longer enjoy. However I was gifted Black Ops 3 and after playing it I actually enjoyed myself quite a bit and can safely say that it's not what I expected.

    Having knowledge and experience about the things you're discussing has value, both to you and the other people you're discussing it with.
    Using the logic of "well I don't need to play something to know it's shit" is dangerously close to some 4chan shitposting.