Bosman at Home - Official Discussion Thread
Mango last edited by Mango
Hey Kyle and gang, this last episode "hollow victories" left me thinking and I feel I need to discuss it a bit.
I'll start with the question that it made me feel which is "is there hope?"
I'm struck by how similar Kyle's criticism of the CEO's comments are to my criticisms of our politicians (I live in Canada, but I think this applies in general to any democratic country). Specifically I'm referring to the understanding that the CEO is talking to investors which is interesting to me because in my mind its the people buying the games that should be talked to, not the investors that don't necessarily care about the quality of the game or are passionate about the content. I should mention I get why they are talking to the investors, I understand the components of the system that led to this being the case, but it makes it feel that this system is designed or being molded for investors and not the players/consumers.
I feel this is similar to politicians in that they speak to corporations or corporate interests, and not the people. Somehow we as the players/people hold the power (money to buy a game or a vote to elect a politician) but we are left out of the equation and conversation. We get pandered to in similar ways, we get hyped on certain things, we get our roads and our education and our "insert political issue here" talked about but at the end of the day we are left feeling that we aren't that important.
Its interesting to me because I think you can be a successful CEO/politician but not necessarily at the same time be good for the players/people. There's nothing that says you have to be benevolent, you just have to succeed. And we measure that with money, which if our goal is to have a great games and a great society, I'm not sure is the right metric. And interestingly enough you could also have the opposite, someone who is e benevolent, they do want to do right by the players/people, but who ultimately are not successful as CEOs/politicians for whatever reason (there are obviously going to be many) and are also (and this is the interesting part to me) viewed by the players/people as not successful, even though they were doing things in their interest as opposed to the investors/corporations.
I think these things and I agree with Kyle's final point that in the end, if you make a game that's necessary, a passion project, something worthwhile it will make more money in the end. If you're good to your voter base, do whats right for people, you'll be rewarded in the end
but then I'm reminded of titanfall 2 and also just the whole world in general and realize that people are buying COD year after year, and people are voting for these politicians. And we can talk about how there's no good choice one way or another or about how complicated the whole picture is till we are blue in the face but at the base level, what is true.... is that despite the fact that when we engage in these conversations we are complicated with multifaceted thoughts, when it matters most, when we go to buy a game with our money or cast a vote, we are rather quite simple in the end... and marketing works! (see success of No Man's Sky)
So, is there hope? I don't mean is there "hope for the world", or, "is there hope for other people to agree with me" or "is there hope that the CEO/politicians will change"... But is there hope for ME? Can I actually put into practice what I believe? Is that enough to make a difference? if I answered yes to that last question then do I actually believe that or is that something I like to say to make myself feel better?
I'm not sure there are answers to these questions as I suspect these are the same issues (more or less) we as a species have been struggling with since we developed the ability to struggle with our own thoughts.
This episode got me thinking though and for that I'm grateful.
What do you guys think?
Axel last edited by
Very interesting video from Kyle, and very interesting thoughts from @Mango.
I would say, crowdfunding is supposed to be an answer to this issue you're raising. In places like Kickstarter, we are both the people and the investors, and therefore the CEO has to address us as both. You would think this system is therefore ideal, as passion projects will be rewarded and cash-grabs will be punished. In some cases it's true and wonderful gems come out of it (Shovel Knight, Divinity: Original Sin, etc.) But you still get shameless disasters like Mighty No. 9.
The burden is, ultimately, on us to do the proper research and make informed decisions: does this developer have a good track record? Is what they're showing me on their Kickstarter page achievable and reasonable, do they already have a working prototype, or do they only have a vague pitch and concept art? That goes for politics too, as we have very obviously experienced last month.
The problem is, most people will still blindly fall for marketing, buzz and catchphrases. This, I'm afraid, cannot be changed, it's the way our society is evolving, and it scares the hell out of me too.
All we can try to do is be the change we want to see, as cliche as it sounds. The fact that you're even thinking about this and asking yourself these questions shows that you're not content with the way things are, so to answer your last question, I think you definitely should put what you believe into practice. At the very least, you'll be proud of yourself, and you might just inspire others to do the same.
@Mango Two points, neither of which are about video games;
First, please understand the impact of your words. If you generalize about "politicians" or frame the act of voting as merely an action of compliance you only contribute to the significant amount of political disinterest in western democracies. Political disinterest that allowed Trump to win the latest US election due to low turn out among expected progressive demographics. That political disinterest, usually characterized by the sentiment "it doesn't matter," is usually born out of either ignorance or a failure to recognize the importance of individual issues.
I'm not familiar with other party systems, but in the US the two parties are completely black and white on issues like entitlements, environmental regulations, and the minimum wage. (Just so there's no confusion, Democrats are generally for those programs/regulations to some degree, while Republicans are almost universally against them.) These aren't boring nor idling: they're crucial elements that shape our society's function and goals.
Second, individualism is a lie. If you believe in the scientific worldview — and even if you don't — we as individuals are much less unique than they tell you in grade school. We're just a bunch of memories and patterns of cognition spread over a mass of cultural and mechanical knowledge developed over the last 10,000 years and beyond. An individual life has little significance, it's only by the passing of information between generations that grants humans any special capability (this is how anthropologists conceive of the progression of technology). I suggest making peace with all of this.
Now, it's very difficult to rely on governments as an individual. More power to those who do and are helped to live a good life under policies and programs such as social security or affirmative action, but they're unreliable due to the political reality (at least in the US). These programs are more often than not political battlegrounds that get written into law, funded taken out, defunded, before being reinstated and funded again. My point in saying this is that individuals are inevitably caught up in the battle over the direction of our society's future. Draw your own conclusions about which positions are the more ethical.
Finally, just follow your conscience. It's good to find a balance between pursing your individual goals and seeing that your morals are codified into our societies' laws in your own daily life. Whether the later is lobbying, charitable donation, or outreach work is up to you. These organizations can often have more acute or noticeable effects. When I spoke to a therapist, she recommended to cease or quell the "I should have done more" train of thought. She advised me to practice mindfulness and pursue the goals I wanted to achieve in the present. So, if you think it right, go volunteer at a local charitable organization when you have some time.
tokeeffe9 last edited by
Just one small note I want to make.
A few people have all highlighted Ubisoft as being really good for finally taking a year break with Assassin's Creed.
I get the point but we really shouldn't forget that they released a bad 2D AC game, the Ezio collection and an AC movie this year.
@tokeeffe9 It speaks to low standards, shifting baselines for what we accept as consumers and critics. Also, for the record, they released 2 new Assassin's Creed games in 2014. So they really haven't lost any time.
Mango last edited by
@Haru17 Thanks for taking the time to respond. I appreciate your viewpoints and your comments on my generalizations.
I must apologize I did not intend to frame the act of voting as an act of compliance. I do believe that it carries tremendous power. I was attempting to lament the fact that despite the fact that we have this power, the people who should be talking to us (the politicians) instead pander to other interests (sometimes these are corporations but this can be a variety of things). The other thing about this that is interesting to me is that we are often easily duped! (myself included), such that even when they are not talking directly to me or in my interests, I can be marketed to believe that despite this they are "good" or worthy of my vote etc.
In any case your comments are well received.
I will however have to dispute your notion that individualism is a lie. I would simply point to our history to point out that while yes much of our success comes through building on the generations before us, we are still and continue to be so do this day greatly influenced by individuals. A great individual can shape a generations progress (or in some cases more!) and you'd only have to look as far as Gandhi and Hitler to see what I mean (there are of course many more).
Additionally, until such time we can experience the world through a "shared" consciousness, I think it would be remiss to negate the effects of our individualism and its inherent effects on our perceptions, thoughts, ideals and subsequently actions.
I do have to agree and commend you on your work with mindfulness. In my opinion, this is what is sorely lacking in our global population as a whole. To engage with the world continually in the present moment, accepting what is and staying true to our stated internal "conscience" is indeed a very difficult task.
Thanks again for the well thought out and enlightened reply. Cheers
@Mango I guess what I mean by "individualism is a lie" isn't a denial of its effects, but rather an extreme form of democracy. I wouldn't place much weight in a great inventor or what have you, because they simply found that invention first — before anyone else. Gandhi and Hitler weren't necessarily singular, as their respective societies were embroiled in certain social strife that made them susceptible to radical change.
This is not to argue, I just find it more useful to temper the new's focus on individuals or "human interest" with my own individual — if you will — focus on society at large.
It's pretty easy to forget about Final Bosman, two person couch streams, and all of the other things that have been lost since GT got free market capitalism'd. Shifting baselines and whatnot.
Here's hoping Kyle's post Bos v Woz stream is brilliant madness, whether or not he defeats Tetsuna. I would rather listen to him explain the weird and intricate ways in which he likes Skyward Sword than not, and I heartily revile that game myself! And of course something on his YouTube like Bosman at Home or Final Bosman coming back would be ideal.
Even just something like a Pokepark 2: Wonders Beyond (wow, that's really the subtitle...) or Majora's Mask blind full playthrough would be incredible. FPT streams like Tail of the Sun are some of the most fun and watchable content GT/EZA makes.
Snowcone_Guy last edited by
Is the show dead?
jipostus last edited by
@Snowcone_Guy It's not completely dead, but it's on a long hiatus. There may be more episodes coming some day, but Kyle is now focusing on EZA.
Josh Bossie last edited by
Definitely wouldn't mind if he brought this exact format to EZA. Kyle monologues are great.
CGamor7 last edited by CGamor7
@WarpDogsVG His work was almost entirely the only reason why i liked GameTrailers. On top of that, I preferred watching Bosman at Home over any other EZA stuff. Wasted potential in my opinion.