Controversial opinion on EZA

  • @ib0show I know, I mentioned that it's completely understandable they don't. But I speak to what @SabotageTheTruth saud about produced content in general.

  • @SabotageTheTruth or less them talking and streaming lol 😂 But that's what they like to do so that's ok.

  • @CGamor7 Also I would love it if they could do more creative fun content that's that's scripted but they need more money to do those. Would love it if Blood can do Backtrack but that opens up more problems, would love a Final Bosman Esque Show or Moon Wars to come back but they lack the funds. We can only hope they grow.
    Edit: Also less streams doesn't equal more content

  • @ib0show Ugh, Backtrack was so good too. Okay, I may have skipped a few things when I said there wasn't that much to miss.

  • @CGamor7 Hahahahahaha! Thanks.

  • Well I've never liked streams (in general) that much and considering a good chunk of the EZA content is streamed (or similar) it's pretty easy to see what my stance on this is.
    That said I understand the difference in time and effort (not to mention logistically) makes proper scripted shows harder to do compared to the more loose and streamed structure. But I still prefer proper "shows".

    For example I really loved the 1UP and Co-Op shows.

    Youtube Video

    In the future when they eventually get a studio I hope they tone down the streams and focus more on shows.

  • @CGamor7 said in Controversial opinion on EZA:

    yeah I'm a $5 patreon. Was $10, probably soon to be $0 unfortunately.

    I understand your position, about not wanting to pay for what you're getting right now if it's not exactly what you want. It makes sense for you in the short term, but the price for what you're asking for has been pretty clearly defined as a studio space. I'm not trying to guilt anyone, but if what you want is more pre-produced content shows, you should be INCREASING your donation to help them sooner hit their studio goal, if enough people decrease their patronage for similar reasons, we get further away from the kind of content they used to be able to produce at GT. Which is what you ultimately want long term.

    I mean, overall - the Patreon is still doing well. So obviously it's not all resting on your shoulders or wallet - but as with any crowdfunded thing, every bit helps!

  • This is a good thread, got me thinking about stuff. I'd also really, really love to see more produced and scripted shows, but it's studio we're missing, like stated above.

    I think the Allies are streaming a lot, which is both good and bad in a way. Hard to pinpoint. I really like the more surprising themes and games, like Kyle's Dumb Game Monday and stuff like that, Huber trying some horror games, and then again I'm not interested at all in something like Xenoblade which seems to be what Ben plays all the time. Same goes for Damiani's super long Final Fantasy runs etc.

  • @TokyoSlim said in Controversial opinion on EZA:

    you should be INCREASING your donation to help them sooner hit their studio goal, if enough people decrease their patronage for similar reasons, we get further away from the kind of content they used to be able to produce at GT. Which is what you ultimately want long term.

    But him personally upping or even keeping his donation won't result in giving him what he wants. I mean he coudl give them 100$/month and it still wouldn't result in what he wants. So it makes no sense for him to up his donation.

    The studio goal requires more supporters that donate, more sponsors and/or someone to provide the EZA crew with that space. To get more of that kind of support I actually think EZA needs certain shows to hook people.
    I'm also talking more regular stuff. I mean Game Sleuth is fun and all but how often do we see episodes for that? You would need weekly, bi-weekly or even monthly shows, not shows with months apart for each episode. You want to get people to regularly visit EZA's site/channel, not have people think "Oh so those whatever-they're-called-guys uploaded another Game Sleuth or Retrospective? Ok, I'll watch it and then forget about them for a couple of months again". More regular visitors would not only help with sponsorships, but it would also result in more people that donate.

    For this to be possible though EZA need to cut and rework some of their current content so they can free up more time and resources for said shows.
    In addition these shows should also try and be a little different from their current ones. Right now they're almost exclusively discussions/podcasts.
    Heck they don't even need to make full-blown scripted shows, but throw in some skits in the show(s) in-between the discussions. They have also shown that they're capable of doing something like this, so it's not like it's beyond their talents.
    Even if allies like say Kyle felt that it was stressful to come up with a new Final Bosman episode every week I think he would be fine if it was limited to a bi-weekly/monthly show or just a short skit during one of their podcasts/shows.

    You can't succeed if you're afraid of failiure. Try something out and if it doesn't work out then learn from it and change it.

  • @suplextrain that looks like a cool video series.

    @TokyoSlim I get where your coming from, but I have to agree with @suplextrain Its up to EZA to create content to hook people. I know that $5 a month isnt much, its half what i pay for netlifx and spotify, but I am unfortunately not watching EZA content except for the weekly Bosman podcast. To be honest the only thing that really keeps me attached to EZA these days is you guys. The community. I love going to the forums because its a place where i can hear other peoples opinions and discuss games in a enviroment that is small enough where your voice doesnt get lost in the masses such as other forums or twitch.

    Do you think having a studio will change anything? Im guilty of not listening to cup of jones anymore, maybe i should so i can get an idea of whats happening. Id be curios to know the technical skill set of most the allies, but thats none of my business lol. I know Ian and Don are very technically inclined, and most the other allies can edit. But in terms of creation of visual assets and such i remember Damiani saying they had to contract that out, which can get costly and another reason produced scripted content cant be made often. If feel like they could utilize those technical skills more, but if they don't have them, then it makes sense most the stuff they do is discussion based. Then if true it makes you wonder if they can grow if they aren't pursuing a wider talent pool to create content. But again, maybe that is something they dont wish to do.

    As for Bosman, that guy is sitting on gold. He has a substantial amount of followers on youtube and twitter just him alone. I believe he even mentioned after the live with youtube gaming thing he did that he realized that it was substantial and he wanted to do something more with his channel. Bosman at home was fun but in a tweet i made to him asking him about the status of that, he said he had fallen of the horse hard and would eventually get back on. To me thats fine, he responded and his answer is completely understandable. He probably really busy, and as for how he feels, he has to be in the space to want to create for it to be good. But just so its out there, i would throw money at his content. If he chooses not to pursue creating anything anymore, I would be sad, but it would be completely respectable.

    @suplextrain said in Controversial opinion on EZA:

    You can't succeed if you're afraid of failiure. Try something out and if it doesn't work out then learn from it and change it.

    I can see this.

  • I'm not going to go over every post here so I'll just post my opinion which may echo what some have said before.

    Yes I would love EZA to make more reviews, more shows, more content, top tens, more retrospectives, but I'm well aware they are not in the best position for doing all of this things right now.

    I honestly don't care much for streams except for the ones covering events, and a few odd ones here and there, so I don't even consume what they are doing the most at the moment.

    But I remember when I heard that GT was closed, I was seriously sad when that happened, as I had only recently rediscovered the new and improved GT and I was consuming their content like crazy, when EZA was announced I knew that if they retained what made them special before I would stick with them no matter what, and so far that has definitively been the case.

    I'm not interested in everything they put out, but Tabletop Escapades, the podcast and frame trap are staples of every week, and I always end up watching Fiasconauts at some point, aside from that we have brilliant things like the betting specials, that is something I would have never asked of anyone and now it is something that I wouldn't be able to do without. Add to that other nonsense like the Dinorama extravaganza and the Hall of Fame voting process and there's so much good stuff that EZA is providing me that I just wouldn't be able to complain in a real way.

    So depending on what people are looking for I do believe there could be a case for not getting what they would like from the group, but for myself and many others what they are providing us is much more than what I could have expected.

  • @suplextrain said in Controversial opinion on EZA:

    But him personally upping or even keeping his donation won't result in giving him what he wants. I mean he coudl give them 100$/month and it still wouldn't result in what he wants. So it makes no sense for him to up his donation.

    It makes more sense (to me, anyways) than asking them to produce studio level content while not being willing to help them reach their studio goal? Obviously his single contribution isn't going to push them over the edge, but it will help.
    Right now, they are like $8k a month away...

    That's all I'm saying.

  • @TokyoSlim said in Controversial opinion on EZA:

    It makes more sense (to me, anyways) than asking them to produce studio level content while not being willing to help them reach their studio goal?

    It's still only his voice and won't carry any real weight with the EZA crew.
    Also they don't need a studio to produce some scripted shows or shows with scripted elements to them regularly. All they would need to do is refocus their efforts. Stuff like Game Sleuth for example is neat, but they're far too irregular to be worth it. If you want to increase your supporters, donations, etc. then having a show that eats up a ton of time but only results in 2 episodes per year frankly isn't worth it.

    Obviously his single contribution isn't going to push them over the edge, but it will help.

    More supporters will help more.

    Right now, they are like $8k a month away...

    Even if they end up getting a studio it's not like it will solve all of the current problems. I mean do you really think they will (without changing anything in regards to the content they produce) magically pump out tons of shows if they get a studio? No.
    What's stopping them from doing scripted stuff now?

    If they want to do scripted shows then they need to trim the fat. They need to cut down on shows and content that honestly isn't worth their time and reshape shows that lack direction (like Ian's show). They're basically not effectively using their time.
    To make it clear I'm not shitting on EZA, but simply saying that producing more scripted stuff is very possible with or without a studio.

  • I'm personally in the boat of enjoying too much of EZA's content and not having the time to get through it all. I understand how that means other people might be experiencing a drought if they're not as into listening to discussions. It's already been brought up that lack of a studio is probably preventing a lot of more scripted content and I'd be inclined to agree. As for things like Retros and Game Sleuth I'm sure it is just a matter of time.

    Streaming, making a podcast, or filming any discussion shows takes the least amount of time. Tabletop Escapades and Fiasconauts are longer filming sessions, but they only happen once a month. These almost all run on an established schedule, so blocking out time to create them is easy and viewers know when to tune in and expect to see these things on time. Reviews eat a considerable amount of time, playing through an entire game, writing the review, editing the review, getting the VO done, editing the video. Reviews are a lot of work but there is an expectation that they'll come out in a timely manner, at least within a week of a game being released, but there is slightly more flexibility with the deadline. With Game Sleuth and Retros, they're the most difficult to produce. Huge amounts of time need to go into playing games, capturing footage, writing the script, doing VO, and editing. They are Patreon goal tiers, so there is an expectation that they'll get made but it is impossible to put a schedule on them because of the amount of work they require. Since they don't have hard deadlines, and require the most amount of time, they get pushed back and come out infrequently. It's unfortunate, but since many of the Allies are only part time it can't really be helped.

    That being said, it would be great if they found a way to work even one scripted show into things but I can't see it coming out more frequently than bi-weekly and it is incredibly difficult without a studio. Scripted shows take a lot of work even for something short too. There are usually multiple writers working on it, if you want it to look good there needs to be a dedicated space, extra equipment, and lots of time to do the filming needed to get all the takes. At this point, you need the show to attract new viewers/patrons but you need the patron money to be able to produce the show. :/

    What I've gotten from this, and any discussion of scripted EZA shows, is that people mostly want a Kyle show. That desire is completely understandable, but he's expressed multiple times his apprehension about trying to live up to the expectations that people have after Final Bosman. That's a tough head space to be in, a lot of pressure, and I'm sure people ask him about it constantly. They could add a Bosman show as a Patreon Tier but if he was prepared to do something like that I think we'd already see it and if it is forced it won't be any good.

    Still, I hope they're considering the possibilities of a scripted show but I don't know how they would add it in without cutting other things, or at least putting them on the back burner, and Game Sleuth or Retros are what would most likely take the hit.

  • You just gotta accept that they don't have the time to do everything, and they're already doing so much. Gametrailers had a much larger staff that ensured all those scripted shows were able to be produced on a regular schedule, not to mention a centralized location for equipment storage, stages, a giant game library, etc. Right now it's a long drive between where many of the allies live and Jones' garage. Some of that will be regained if we can hit the Patreon Studio goal, some won't. Yes, it hasn't been a regular thing due to the extra time it takes to produce while the Allies are already busy working on other things, but we have gotten little scripted things here and there like Blood's Earthbound Cameraman spoof. On top of that keep in mind people like Don have full time jobs they're doing outside of producing stuff like Don's Design Lab, so we're really lucky to even get what we get from them.

  • @logic__error everything you said make sense. It doesn't have to be a Kyle show though. Just more scripted fun content. So many possibilities. As for kyle, his Bosman at home show was pretty much just as good as the Final Bosman. I think he stresses himself out a lot about what you mentioned though. For his channel in his last video he talked about wanting to do more on his own channel.

  • @suplextrain said in Controversial opinion on EZA:

    All they would need to do is refocus their efforts

    Without alienating the people who are already paying them $42k for the content they are already focusing on. In reality you're not asking for different content, you're asking for more content. They aren't going to cancel content they've promised to people to make different content, that would be risking Patreon suicide. Frankly, I enjoy Frame Trap, EZ Up, Fiasco, etc. I'd be pretty pissed off if you had them "refocus" their efforts into doing a weekly pre produced skit show instead.

    What's stopping them from doing scripted stuff now?

    Logistics. The fact that they are only together as a group twice a week, live scattered across LA, work out of their individual homes, have to constantly reshuffle equipment, and have to spend most of their time transferring data back and forth via either the internet or by driving hours across LA with a data drive to get any data edited and uploaded to Youtube, and that they have to try and deliver the things they've promised to everyone at the tiers they have paid for.

    A Studio will allow them to have:

    • A persistent AV and shooting setup. Instead of a garage they reconfigure for every show.

    • A place in a more centralized location where at least some of them gather on a daily basis, thus giving them instant access to each other. The Garage is neat, but it's a garage, it's Brandon/Amanda/Sophie's home and even though it's jolly - they can't realistically run a 8 or 9 person media production business out of it 5 days a week.

    • A centralized location for data (I need footage for X, it's in Damiani's office vs I need footage for X, Damiani has been uploading it to our server for 4 hours or I can get it from him on Sunday/Tuesday when I see him next)

    • Free time brought on by greater efficiency and increased/more consistent working hours caused by the above factors

    • The fact that this type of content is what has been exactly and literally indicated to being contingent on a studio space since the very inception of EZA. I too would like to see more "shows". That's why I'm hoping they reach their studio goal.

    Again, just explaining things as I see them (and has been repeatedly explained by Jones and other Allies). If you want to cancel your patronage, I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't. that's your business. I'm just saying that from my perspective it's the wrong way to go about getting what you want from EZA. :)

  • Reading all this just makes me really hope that they'd get a big bump on their Patreon numbers. It would be such a happy thing to witness. Maybe E3 days and coverage will grow the numbers. They need a lot of visibility, like visits to other channels and shows as well during those days.

  • @Sentinel-Beach That's kind of been the hope since the anniversary bump. It's just a pity to see people starting to get disillusioned or whatever when we're sooo close! 8k a month is totally within reach this year. A studio space is nearly a reality after a little more than a year, it's fantastic! A year ago, I honestly thought 50k was unattainable. It's not!

  • @Mbun I dont think anyone here doesnt understand that they lack time. I think what @suplextrain is saying and how I see it is that they would have to do less of some of the stuff they do to do other things.

    @TokyoSlim For me personally if i had it my way, i would ask for different content. IM not asking for more. I agree with you and @Brannox That they almost have to much content. I personally just don't like it. The have a bunch of shows they just released that aren't on the patreon tiers. The time it takes them to do 2 or 3 of those could be a scripted show, maybe? i know nothing about production. But your discussion about the studio stuff sounds spot on. At the end of the day they ppl can choose to invest long term in hopes they get there, or they don't. But what i do believe is that they need the content to grab more people while balancing the stuff they do.

    lets look at the numbers. there are 104,246 subs on youtube as i write this.

    Lets look at some of their longer standing shows. Most are recent as in not the last two episodes but i looked at the 3rd and 4th last episode because numbers take time to grow. whats interesting, is if you look from when the show first started to now for most of these, you see the numbers drop by quite a bit.

    Fiasconauts: 15% of subs watch this, most the time its lower.
    Easy Update: ranges from 7% subs to %14
    Table Top: gets about 7%
    Game Sleuth: Its last episode was 31% of subs
    Retrospective: the last ep was 34%
    Huber Syndrom: usually pulls in around %12 of the total subs
    EZA podcast and Frametrap: bring in the most between 28% to 38% most the time.
    Reviews bring in the most overall just a bit higher then the podcasts.

    *Rough estimates, and i cant obviously factor in glaring issues that may be apparent to the view count on youtube

    I imagine most the patreon subs watch all these. which many would argue is all that matters. And maybe at the end of teh day it does. But i feel like looking at the viewed count on their videos show that they arent bringing it a lot of potential people.

    at your last comment, thats business. you keep people coming back or you lose them because you dont expand to fit their needs. They've expanded, but with more of the same for the people who already like it.

    I am not trying to be a negative force here on the forums. But I felt that if i feel a certain way, there is probably others. And its a discussion worth having. I know they are busy people, and they dont have a studio but it doesn't change how i or others feel about the content. I think others that feel the same way aren't trying to throw a wrench in things, just wanting to express ourselves. that's all. We all care about EZA or we wouldn't be here. I hope they grow too. And I hope with the studio they can bring some different things.