Controversial opinion on EZA



  • @suplextrain said in Controversial opinion on EZA:

    But him personally upping or even keeping his donation won't result in giving him what he wants. I mean he coudl give them 100$/month and it still wouldn't result in what he wants. So it makes no sense for him to up his donation.

    It makes more sense (to me, anyways) than asking them to produce studio level content while not being willing to help them reach their studio goal? Obviously his single contribution isn't going to push them over the edge, but it will help.
    Right now, they are like $8k a month away...

    That's all I'm saying.



  • @TokyoSlim said in Controversial opinion on EZA:

    It makes more sense (to me, anyways) than asking them to produce studio level content while not being willing to help them reach their studio goal?

    It's still only his voice and won't carry any real weight with the EZA crew.
    Also they don't need a studio to produce some scripted shows or shows with scripted elements to them regularly. All they would need to do is refocus their efforts. Stuff like Game Sleuth for example is neat, but they're far too irregular to be worth it. If you want to increase your supporters, donations, etc. then having a show that eats up a ton of time but only results in 2 episodes per year frankly isn't worth it.

    Obviously his single contribution isn't going to push them over the edge, but it will help.

    More supporters will help more.

    Right now, they are like $8k a month away...

    Even if they end up getting a studio it's not like it will solve all of the current problems. I mean do you really think they will (without changing anything in regards to the content they produce) magically pump out tons of shows if they get a studio? No.
    What's stopping them from doing scripted stuff now?

    If they want to do scripted shows then they need to trim the fat. They need to cut down on shows and content that honestly isn't worth their time and reshape shows that lack direction (like Ian's show). They're basically not effectively using their time.
    To make it clear I'm not shitting on EZA, but simply saying that producing more scripted stuff is very possible with or without a studio.



  • I'm personally in the boat of enjoying too much of EZA's content and not having the time to get through it all. I understand how that means other people might be experiencing a drought if they're not as into listening to discussions. It's already been brought up that lack of a studio is probably preventing a lot of more scripted content and I'd be inclined to agree. As for things like Retros and Game Sleuth I'm sure it is just a matter of time.

    Streaming, making a podcast, or filming any discussion shows takes the least amount of time. Tabletop Escapades and Fiasconauts are longer filming sessions, but they only happen once a month. These almost all run on an established schedule, so blocking out time to create them is easy and viewers know when to tune in and expect to see these things on time. Reviews eat a considerable amount of time, playing through an entire game, writing the review, editing the review, getting the VO done, editing the video. Reviews are a lot of work but there is an expectation that they'll come out in a timely manner, at least within a week of a game being released, but there is slightly more flexibility with the deadline. With Game Sleuth and Retros, they're the most difficult to produce. Huge amounts of time need to go into playing games, capturing footage, writing the script, doing VO, and editing. They are Patreon goal tiers, so there is an expectation that they'll get made but it is impossible to put a schedule on them because of the amount of work they require. Since they don't have hard deadlines, and require the most amount of time, they get pushed back and come out infrequently. It's unfortunate, but since many of the Allies are only part time it can't really be helped.

    That being said, it would be great if they found a way to work even one scripted show into things but I can't see it coming out more frequently than bi-weekly and it is incredibly difficult without a studio. Scripted shows take a lot of work even for something short too. There are usually multiple writers working on it, if you want it to look good there needs to be a dedicated space, extra equipment, and lots of time to do the filming needed to get all the takes. At this point, you need the show to attract new viewers/patrons but you need the patron money to be able to produce the show. :/

    What I've gotten from this, and any discussion of scripted EZA shows, is that people mostly want a Kyle show. That desire is completely understandable, but he's expressed multiple times his apprehension about trying to live up to the expectations that people have after Final Bosman. That's a tough head space to be in, a lot of pressure, and I'm sure people ask him about it constantly. They could add a Bosman show as a Patreon Tier but if he was prepared to do something like that I think we'd already see it and if it is forced it won't be any good.

    Still, I hope they're considering the possibilities of a scripted show but I don't know how they would add it in without cutting other things, or at least putting them on the back burner, and Game Sleuth or Retros are what would most likely take the hit.



  • You just gotta accept that they don't have the time to do everything, and they're already doing so much. Gametrailers had a much larger staff that ensured all those scripted shows were able to be produced on a regular schedule, not to mention a centralized location for equipment storage, stages, a giant game library, etc. Right now it's a long drive between where many of the allies live and Jones' garage. Some of that will be regained if we can hit the Patreon Studio goal, some won't. Yes, it hasn't been a regular thing due to the extra time it takes to produce while the Allies are already busy working on other things, but we have gotten little scripted things here and there like Blood's Earthbound Cameraman spoof. On top of that keep in mind people like Don have full time jobs they're doing outside of producing stuff like Don's Design Lab, so we're really lucky to even get what we get from them.



  • @logic__error everything you said make sense. It doesn't have to be a Kyle show though. Just more scripted fun content. So many possibilities. As for kyle, his Bosman at home show was pretty much just as good as the Final Bosman. I think he stresses himself out a lot about what you mentioned though. For his channel in his last video he talked about wanting to do more on his own channel.



  • @suplextrain said in Controversial opinion on EZA:

    All they would need to do is refocus their efforts

    Without alienating the people who are already paying them $42k for the content they are already focusing on. In reality you're not asking for different content, you're asking for more content. They aren't going to cancel content they've promised to people to make different content, that would be risking Patreon suicide. Frankly, I enjoy Frame Trap, EZ Up, Fiasco, etc. I'd be pretty pissed off if you had them "refocus" their efforts into doing a weekly pre produced skit show instead.

    What's stopping them from doing scripted stuff now?

    Logistics. The fact that they are only together as a group twice a week, live scattered across LA, work out of their individual homes, have to constantly reshuffle equipment, and have to spend most of their time transferring data back and forth via either the internet or by driving hours across LA with a data drive to get any data edited and uploaded to Youtube, and that they have to try and deliver the things they've promised to everyone at the tiers they have paid for.

    A Studio will allow them to have:

    • A persistent AV and shooting setup. Instead of a garage they reconfigure for every show.

    • A place in a more centralized location where at least some of them gather on a daily basis, thus giving them instant access to each other. The Garage is neat, but it's a garage, it's Brandon/Amanda/Sophie's home and even though it's jolly - they can't realistically run a 8 or 9 person media production business out of it 5 days a week.

    • A centralized location for data (I need footage for X, it's in Damiani's office vs I need footage for X, Damiani has been uploading it to our server for 4 hours or I can get it from him on Sunday/Tuesday when I see him next)

    • Free time brought on by greater efficiency and increased/more consistent working hours caused by the above factors

    • The fact that this type of content is what has been exactly and literally indicated to being contingent on a studio space since the very inception of EZA. I too would like to see more "shows". That's why I'm hoping they reach their studio goal.

    Again, just explaining things as I see them (and has been repeatedly explained by Jones and other Allies). If you want to cancel your patronage, I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't. that's your business. I'm just saying that from my perspective it's the wrong way to go about getting what you want from EZA. :)



  • Reading all this just makes me really hope that they'd get a big bump on their Patreon numbers. It would be such a happy thing to witness. Maybe E3 days and coverage will grow the numbers. They need a lot of visibility, like visits to other channels and shows as well during those days.



  • @Sentinel-Beach That's kind of been the hope since the anniversary bump. It's just a pity to see people starting to get disillusioned or whatever when we're sooo close! 8k a month is totally within reach this year. A studio space is nearly a reality after a little more than a year, it's fantastic! A year ago, I honestly thought 50k was unattainable. It's not!



  • @Mbun I dont think anyone here doesnt understand that they lack time. I think what @suplextrain is saying and how I see it is that they would have to do less of some of the stuff they do to do other things.

    @TokyoSlim For me personally if i had it my way, i would ask for different content. IM not asking for more. I agree with you and @Brannox That they almost have to much content. I personally just don't like it. The have a bunch of shows they just released that aren't on the patreon tiers. The time it takes them to do 2 or 3 of those could be a scripted show, maybe? i know nothing about production. But your discussion about the studio stuff sounds spot on. At the end of the day they ppl can choose to invest long term in hopes they get there, or they don't. But what i do believe is that they need the content to grab more people while balancing the stuff they do.

    lets look at the numbers. there are 104,246 subs on youtube as i write this.

    Lets look at some of their longer standing shows. Most are recent as in not the last two episodes but i looked at the 3rd and 4th last episode because numbers take time to grow. whats interesting, is if you look from when the show first started to now for most of these, you see the numbers drop by quite a bit.

    Fiasconauts: 15% of subs watch this, most the time its lower.
    Easy Update: ranges from 7% subs to %14
    Table Top: gets about 7%
    Game Sleuth: Its last episode was 31% of subs
    Retrospective: the last ep was 34%
    Huber Syndrom: usually pulls in around %12 of the total subs
    EZA podcast and Frametrap: bring in the most between 28% to 38% most the time.
    Reviews bring in the most overall just a bit higher then the podcasts.

    *Rough estimates, and i cant obviously factor in glaring issues that may be apparent to the view count on youtube

    I imagine most the patreon subs watch all these. which many would argue is all that matters. And maybe at the end of teh day it does. But i feel like looking at the viewed count on their videos show that they arent bringing it a lot of potential people.

    at your last comment, thats business. you keep people coming back or you lose them because you dont expand to fit their needs. They've expanded, but with more of the same for the people who already like it.

    I am not trying to be a negative force here on the forums. But I felt that if i feel a certain way, there is probably others. And its a discussion worth having. I know they are busy people, and they dont have a studio but it doesn't change how i or others feel about the content. I think others that feel the same way aren't trying to throw a wrench in things, just wanting to express ourselves. that's all. We all care about EZA or we wouldn't be here. I hope they grow too. And I hope with the studio they can bring some different things.



  • @TokyoSlim said in Controversial opinion on EZA:

    Without alienating the people who are already paying them $42k for the content

    With that kind of mindset then they should never change anything then?

    In reality you're not asking for different content, you're asking for more content.

    Maybe you should try reading my posts properly. I am definately not asking for more and how you could even think that is beyond me. I already told you that I think they should re-allocate their time and use it more effectively by removing or changing the stuff they currently have. In no way did I mention adding stuff on top of the things they're already doing. You completely missed my point.

    They aren't going to cancel content they've promised to people to make different content

    Then them making more and scripted shows, studio or no studio, is basically never gonna happen. The problem isn't the amount of time they invest, but how they invest it.

    Frankly, I enjoy Frame Trap, EZ Up, Fiasco, etc. I'd be pretty pissed off if you had them "refocus" their efforts into doing a weekly pre produced skit show instead.

    With every change you will always annoy someone. Using that logic nothing should ever change.
    You don't even know if you'd like the potential new content even more than their current stuff as well. Sounds to me that you're the one that wants more. You want everything without losing anything. That's not realistic.

    Logistics.

    Nope. I already elaborated on this and you claiming they absolutely cannot make scripted stuff because they don't have a studio is downright delusional.
    Would it makes things easier? Sure. Is it a necessity? No. Is it extremely hard without a studio? No.
    Do you even know that "scripted" even means? It means it's something preplanned and written. The setting could be anywhere. You could make a scripted skit taking place on a couch.

    If you want to cancel your patronage, I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't. that's your business. I'm just saying that from my perspective it's the wrong way to go about getting what you want from EZA. :)

    Again you miss my point. Do you read the things you want to read or something? Not being a dick here but I'm getting annoyed when the things I'm talking about consistently fly over your head, as if you didn't even really bother to properly read my posts.

    The point I made was about how scripted shows are entirely possible right now for EZA and how producing more consistent, focused and scripted shows would result in more supporters and in turn more money.
    If I'm a patron or not or what amount I'm donating is completely irrelevant here, nor did I even bring that up. I am not even making demands here, simply stating facts backed by sound reasoning.
    Also your way of simply upping the pledge of a singular user that wants X is a downright horrible idea to "get what you want from EZA". That's just comes off as you trying to trick them into serving your agenda. In truth you have absolutely no answer or solution. You go on about keeping the status quo and throwing more money at EZA, as if that was the root of the problem.
    Again, you can't eat the cake and still keep it.



  • I guess my feeling is that they'd already be doing scripted stuff if it was possible and they wanted to. So either they don't think it is possible or they don't want to do it, take your pick. They chose to do EZAnime and Reaction Shots and Zelda Talk and Friend Code instead of doing a scripted show.

    The only thing you can do is continue to express interest in a scripted show and hope that enough people keep bringing it up and someone decides they have an idea for one and actually wants to do it. If they are enjoying doing more discussions and streams they probably aren't going to drop those to pick up something they don't have an interest in and if they aren't interested in doing a scripted show it's not going to be good anyways. I think every time it's been brought up in some way it is more a lack of idea or a disinterest in rehashing what has already been done. Pretty sure Kyle and Ian both said during a Q&A that anything resembling Final Bosman or Mandatory Update isn't something they want to do, but I can't source it ATM.

    A studio doesn't guarantee they'll start doing scripted shows, unless they explicitly say that is part of the goal. Upping your pledge when that's not on the table will only make you feel more bitter if they do hit the studio goal and don't start doing any scripted programs. If you're not getting what you want out of things, you gotta do what you gotta do and shouldn't feel ashamed.

    Just keep making your opinion known. At least that way they might address the idea in more certain terms!

    Are there any specific visions those hoping for scripted shows want to see? Usually people are just asking for revivals of GT shows, I'd be interested in hearing if anyone has something uniquely EZA in mind!



  • @logic__error I've mostly stayed out of this thread because I like both their older scripted content and their current unscripted content, so I didn't feel strongly enough to contribute. But I do have a few ideas for scripted things I would love! Ian's "Hell" episode of Easy Update is a personal favorite, and reminded me of the episode of Mandatory Update where Elyse left in that it's primarily sketch-based humor. I don't know if I would necessarily want a direct expansion on that universe, but the style of a 10-15 minute sketch or sequence of sketches would be a lot of fun to incorporate as a regular show. Maybe it could be every two weeks or a longer episode once a month to compensate for how long the process is. The EZU 50th episode also took a unique style in the form of a mockumentary, which could be a fun format to explore in other ways.

    I just realized that those are both formats used extensively by Monty Python. Do I want EZA to become the Monty Python of video games? ...Actually, maybe I do. But again, I like their current content too, that's just a pie-in-the-sky dream of what kinds of scripted stuff they would do that would feel fresh and true to their newly found identity.



  • Scripted stuff would be neat! Though I totally understand the allies situation. I can see the point where they do a lot of discussion. Not like that is a bad thing! I would like something I would need to watch though, which I mean almost all of the EZA content can be used as background noise.

    Even the best things can be better, and not everybody will be happy. For me, overall I get a lot out of EZA, so I am quite thrilled.

    With everything they do, I mean, there is only ONE thing I was disappointed with! That is the betting specials. They way they do it now is great with all the allies involved, but I must admit I liked the old way more. Betting specials were the thing I looked forward to the most, and they changed it up. At the very least, maybe they could have a single bet with just Huber and Kyle. Just one. Please?



  • @alexwhiteplays The Hell episode of EZU was great! Blood's Earthbound photographer video was a beautiful thing too, so I think video game parodies would work well for them.

    They've also been building something with their alter egos in the betting specials... even if people aren't as keen on the new betting special format, everyone seemed to enjoy their characters at least, so maybe expanding those personas into something scripted could turn into something cool.

    If anyone could take a page from Monty Python and make it work in the realm of video game journalism, I think EZA could do it ;)



  • @logic__error @alexwhiteplays Monty Python type stuff sounds like a pretty cool idea. Don's discount gaming is entertaining. More of that type of show would be welcome. The bonus bits from The Final Bosman, or even some of the bits they were doing towards the end of GT. They can be a pretty comical group and i think they are all creative enough to come up with some awesome shows. The Mocumentry stuff sounds good too. Yes i hope they take the betting specials to a whole new level, and bring those characters out more through out the year. I think that it would be interesting if they created a story arc with their characters and the community could put it together piece by piece.

    Anyways, seems like this thread is starting to slow down. I appreciate everyones input and hope for another successful year for the Easy Allies.



  • @suplextrain said in Controversial opinion on EZA:

    Also your way of simply upping the pledge of a singular user that wants X is a downright horrible idea to "get what you want from EZA".

    That's literally describing the entire way EZA is funded and paid for by patrons. If enough people "up their pledge" to reach 50k, EZA will get a studio and start producing more of the kind of content they were producing at GT.
    Cause ---> Effect

    That's just comes off as you trying to trick them into serving your agenda. In truth you have absolutely no answer or solution. You go on about keeping the status quo and throwing more money at EZA, as if that was the root of the problem.
    Again, you can't eat the cake and still keep it.

    I think maybe you should take a step back and relax or something. My agenda is for EZA to be successful and produce high quality shows. If that's not your agenda too then maybe you're in the wrong place?

    I do actually have an answer and a solution It's actually Brandon Jones' answer and solution to the question that's been asked of him repeatedly over the past year or so. It's pretty obvious that you don't like it, but there it is. :)

    I prefer pie and I'm not entirely sure you understand the point of that colloquialism. If I wanted to "have my cake and eat it too", I'd want EZA to produce exactly what I want without paying for it. Clearly that's the side of the argument you seem to be on, not me?

    Anyways, nice chat. Take it easy.



  • @TokyoSlim said in Controversial opinion on EZA:

    That's literally describing the entire way EZA is funded and paid for by patrons. If enough people "up their pledge" to reach 50k, EZA will get a studio and start producing more of the kind of content they were producing at GT.

    I repeat your words now. You said that people not satisfied with the content EZA provides should up their pledge a significant amount to "get EZA to do what they want". You also just naturally assume that EZA getting a studio would result solving people's issues with current EZA, let alone assuming that they would start pumping out more scripted stuff for no real reason.
    This is faulty logic to the extreme.

    I think maybe you should take a step back and relax or something.

    Maybe you should do that since you seem to misinterpret almost everything I say and make a number of wild assumptions about me? I am perfectly calm.

    My agenda is for EZA to be successful and produce high quality shows. If that's not your agenda too then maybe you're in the wrong place?

    Now you try and twist my words using logical fallacies. So maybe you really should take a step back and open your mind.
    Seriously, what do you think I have been doing and suggesting? So far you have been wrong about a number of things so I'd really like to hear what you think I'm saying and what I want.

    I do actually have an answer and a solution It's actually Brandon Jones' answer and solution to the question that's been asked of him repeatedly over the past year or so. It's pretty obvious that you don't like it, but there it is. :)

    Uh huh. Which is? Also please leave your erronous assumptions about me out, because you're racking up quite a number so far. Adding passive aggressive emotes doesn't help your case either.

    I prefer pie and I'm not entirely sure you understand the point of that colloquialism.

    Oh so now you start to insult me as well. Great. Also I used an idiom whcih perfectly fits.
    You don't want or think that shows should change or be removed, but you want scripted stuff to be added on top of this. The time the EZA crew invests into their work is already significant. So without removing or changing anything, where exactly are they supposed to be getting this extra time from? Several of them are not even full time (like Don and Ian) and I don't think they're looking to go full-time either. So they have the time they have.
    Explain to me why you think getting a studio would allow for new scripted shows to pop up on top of all the other stuff they're doing.
    Your point about logistics is already faulty, as I have explained, so don't fall back on that again.

    Anyways, nice chat. Take it easy.

    It's so tiresome when people feel that when they start to lose an argument the best solution is to start calling the opposition mad or riled up, that they need to calm down. This is the same kind of logical fallacy where you start to insult the other party.
    Seriously dude, try and open your mind. You're acting extremely close minded right now and not even trying to understand what I'm saying. You're making this discussion completely pointless. You don't want to discuss change or feedback, you want to keep the status quo and if people don't like it they should up their pledges (seriously?).

    So again I ask, what exactly is it that you think I'm doing and what is it I want? Because so far it has been completely wrong.



  • @suplextrain said in Controversial opinion on EZA:

    Uh huh. Which is?

    Posted it several times already. Studio goal 50k. Per Brandon. See my bullet point list which he and the other allies have specifically discussed before as to "why a studio will allow them to make this more scripted and produced kind of content". Not "assuming" anything. Just repeating. Been very polite to you and you've been quite hostile. Goodnight!



  • @TokyoSlim I've been reading through this entire thread and am not trying to single you out here but you've misconstrued several things that @suplextrain has said. Also you've been a bit passive aggressive with your posts. I can see why @suplextrain is irrated.

    It's unfortunate because I've seen some pretty good posts here get completely passed over by these exchanges.

    However, as much as you brought up some good stuff about the studio and their goals, I don't agree with you in terms of how me or anyone should spend their money. They make content to keep ppl and bring ppl in or they don't grow. I made a post where I showed the amounts of ppl that actually watch the show compared to the total subscribers. They're reach isnt impactful enough to suck ppl in, which is what would give them more money. Not the dream that one day they might do something. Game Sleuth was the 20,000 goal. Yet that's been barely produced. If they're not making the stuff they said they would or don't want to that's fine but it means ppl will drop out eventually. It's not on anyone to hope they will do something they want. They produce what ppl want, ppl invest. But your right, if they make promises then it's up to ppl to invest if they believe in that vision, but like real business, not everyone is going to hold out and keep their money in or want to until they see it for themselves.

    I think @logic__error said it best. If ppl want something, being vocal is the best way, they will listen. EZA is a good group of ppl that truly care about their community. I'm sure they will balance what they want with what their fans want. But they can't please everyone. I'm sure their happy just be doing what they're doing and so are many of their fans.



  • @CGamor7
    Go ahead and single me out! I feel like he's being super aggressive to me for no real reason.

    I never meant to try and tell you how to spend your money. I provided my viewpoint on what I thought was the most productive way to achieve what you want out of EZA in regards to more produced shows. And I said it was fine if you didn't.

    If you want to cancel your patronage, I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't. that's your business. I'm just saying that from my perspective it's the wrong way to go about getting what you want from EZA

    This was directed to you as well as suplextrain. I felt like you both were arguing that abandoning funding the business plan was more productive for you than helping fund the tier that it has been said gives you the type of thing you're looking for. I don't agree, but it's not my money!

    Taking my conversational topics in order:

    A: You actually can't just stop making shows that people are specifically funding in order to fund something else. That's called bait and switch. Youtube subscriptions don't really matter, I'm a youtube sub on like 300 channels I don't actually care about enough to give them any money. There's essentially no money on YT subs or views. Patrons and sponsors fund the shows. They make the shows that we Patrons fund. Taking money that they got for funding specific shows, and then not using it for those shows is bad. I'm not sure why that's a controversial subject? Like should I just be ok with funding a Patreon that doesn't deliver the promised tier products?

    B: Brandon has laid out his rough roadmap for EZA content. This includes more produced content, and special guests in the studio and etc. which is tied to the 50k tier Patreon goal. If you want more of that kind of content, that 50k goal should be very interesting to you. I am not just making up stuff, It's been addressed in COJ, Patron Q&A, in person, on streams... The GT Studio made it convenient for them to produce that level of GT content. They don't currently have a studio, when they get one, they will apparently be more able and willing to produce that content.

    C: EZA isn't in trouble, they have been wildly successful! Like I said, I agree with you that I'd like to see them have more polished, pre-produced shows like they used to at GT. The way that's going to happen is with a studio and offices like they used to have at GT. They are almost to that goal and it's quite possible that they'll reach it by the end of the year. I'm excited for the next phase.