Controversial opinion on EZA



  • @TokyoSlim I've been reading through this entire thread and am not trying to single you out here but you've misconstrued several things that @suplextrain has said. Also you've been a bit passive aggressive with your posts. I can see why @suplextrain is irrated.

    It's unfortunate because I've seen some pretty good posts here get completely passed over by these exchanges.

    However, as much as you brought up some good stuff about the studio and their goals, I don't agree with you in terms of how me or anyone should spend their money. They make content to keep ppl and bring ppl in or they don't grow. I made a post where I showed the amounts of ppl that actually watch the show compared to the total subscribers. They're reach isnt impactful enough to suck ppl in, which is what would give them more money. Not the dream that one day they might do something. Game Sleuth was the 20,000 goal. Yet that's been barely produced. If they're not making the stuff they said they would or don't want to that's fine but it means ppl will drop out eventually. It's not on anyone to hope they will do something they want. They produce what ppl want, ppl invest. But your right, if they make promises then it's up to ppl to invest if they believe in that vision, but like real business, not everyone is going to hold out and keep their money in or want to until they see it for themselves.

    I think @logic__error said it best. If ppl want something, being vocal is the best way, they will listen. EZA is a good group of ppl that truly care about their community. I'm sure they will balance what they want with what their fans want. But they can't please everyone. I'm sure their happy just be doing what they're doing and so are many of their fans.



  • @CGamor7
    Go ahead and single me out! I feel like he's being super aggressive to me for no real reason.

    I never meant to try and tell you how to spend your money. I provided my viewpoint on what I thought was the most productive way to achieve what you want out of EZA in regards to more produced shows. And I said it was fine if you didn't.

    If you want to cancel your patronage, I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't. that's your business. I'm just saying that from my perspective it's the wrong way to go about getting what you want from EZA

    This was directed to you as well as suplextrain. I felt like you both were arguing that abandoning funding the business plan was more productive for you than helping fund the tier that it has been said gives you the type of thing you're looking for. I don't agree, but it's not my money!

    Taking my conversational topics in order:

    A: You actually can't just stop making shows that people are specifically funding in order to fund something else. That's called bait and switch. Youtube subscriptions don't really matter, I'm a youtube sub on like 300 channels I don't actually care about enough to give them any money. There's essentially no money on YT subs or views. Patrons and sponsors fund the shows. They make the shows that we Patrons fund. Taking money that they got for funding specific shows, and then not using it for those shows is bad. I'm not sure why that's a controversial subject? Like should I just be ok with funding a Patreon that doesn't deliver the promised tier products?

    B: Brandon has laid out his rough roadmap for EZA content. This includes more produced content, and special guests in the studio and etc. which is tied to the 50k tier Patreon goal. If you want more of that kind of content, that 50k goal should be very interesting to you. I am not just making up stuff, It's been addressed in COJ, Patron Q&A, in person, on streams... The GT Studio made it convenient for them to produce that level of GT content. They don't currently have a studio, when they get one, they will apparently be more able and willing to produce that content.

    C: EZA isn't in trouble, they have been wildly successful! Like I said, I agree with you that I'd like to see them have more polished, pre-produced shows like they used to at GT. The way that's going to happen is with a studio and offices like they used to have at GT. They are almost to that goal and it's quite possible that they'll reach it by the end of the year. I'm excited for the next phase.



  • Totally not gonna read through the rest of the massive text wall, but for my $0.02 I'm gonna say I'm quite happy with the rate at which the content I enjoy comes out.

    Do I wish certain things happened more often like the Podcast, tabletop escapades and gundam streams? Sure, but they're the most time consuming and therefore not really possible.

    I'm also typically working 11PM till 4-7AM and then sleeping till 4PM or later, so I miss just about every twitch stream all week, so there's a vast majority of things I miss unless I catch it later on via youtube, which means I miss out on the live interactions from the allies and chat, so for ME more shows instead of twitch streams wouldn't bother me, but that's extremely selfish of me, and I still get to catch Kyle's tetris streams or Brandon's playthroughs later in the week at night sometimes so I'd miss those if they went away.

    On the same token there's quite a few shows I just don't even watch due to having no interest in the topic or not wanting spoilers and as mentioned earlier I sleep during the day so I miss the monthly Q&As too.

    Either way through, the majority of the issues mentioned in the OP would certainly diminish with them having a studio. Which is their main goal (Or at the very least Brandon's goal) so I'd say just look forward to that hopefully happening cause then you'll get your wish or you might not, that's all probably dependent on the community at that moment and how the allies feel.

    You support them cause you want to support them, and hopefully in a way that you won't miss if an emergency came up. I'm not gonna hold them hostage with my support, if I can't watch their content anymore or something drastic happens within the group or within the community then I'll likely pull back, it just shouldn't ever be the reason they change how they do things, to me that prevents things from being organic.

    Honestly when you consider just the shows they currently record they already do MORE than they did at GT if you ask me, the twitch stuff is just a bonus. Also consider that many things were probably posted on GT earlier than intended just to get views, kyle says quite often that he wasn't happy with how things he made turned out, so I'd rather them not to rush anything.



  • @TokyoSlim said in Controversial opinion on EZA:

    Posted it several times already. Studio goal 50k.

    That? I have already explained to you why that isn't a necessity and why that won't magically spawn more scripted shows.
    The real reason is that they chose not to. You can do scripted stuff on a couch or out on the street. Heck I even unintentionally posted an example of this with the co-op show above.
    The reason why they prefer unscripted stuff like discussions and let's play sort of streams is because it's easier and requires less prep. This is understandable. But if they want to grow they will have to move beyond tha and refocus. A studio isn't required for that. Heck it's possible that they will never get a studio if they keep trucking along the way they have.
    For example imagine if a bunch of people also start to become dissatisfied and decide to stop being supporters, that wouldn't result in getting closer to that 50k goal.

    Been very polite to you and you've been quite hostile.

    Dude... this is very much not the case. But well whatever helps you sleep at night, it's clear you don't really care what I say or think.
    Heck this isn't even about me, which is something you seemed to have completely failed to grasp. This is about me telling you what is and isn't possible as well as telling you that asking someone that is dissatisfied to up their pledge by a considerable amount (for your own selfish reasons) isn't actually the best course of action. Heck removing your pledge would actually be more effective if several people started pulling out for the same reason. People vote with their money, after all.

    Do you know what the best course of action actually is? To discuss this topic and be vocal about it, which you're directly fighting against. You're telling people to simply pay up (,shut up) and wait for that magical studio that somehow will make them all happy for no real reason. If they got a studio right now they would have no real reason to change anything, so why would that result in more scripted stuff?



  • @suplextrain said in Controversial opinion on EZA:

    I have already explained to you why that isn't a necessity and why that won't magically spawn more scripted shows.

    Explaining things to ME doesn't change Brandon's mind though. I'm not Brandon! You're acting like me stating the situation as-is is somehow not listening to you. I'm listening, I just know what you're proposing isn't going to happen! (unless god forbid EZA goes under or something and they have to start over) Brandon isn't going to burn his current Patrons who fund these shows in order to make other shows. Even if the new shows are great, it's not what was promised! He's hyper aware of that kind of thing and I'm super sure that just ditching shows isn't in the cards.

    If they got a studio right now they would have no real reason to change anything, so why would that result in more scripted stuff?

    Because aside from a weekly cup of Jones that was retconned into being less often, they've fulfilled all the other promises they've made to Patrons. That's what all those shows are you keep trying to kill off. Those are promises that EZA has made to produce for Patrons in exchange for the money we give them.



  • @TokyoSlim they have quite abit of shows that aren't directly funded.

    Also, I understand that you think ppl pulling out of monthly contributions is counter productive, but the truth is, it's a delicate balance. I get that they have said getting a studio is what it takes for them to produce more scripted shows. I believe that. But I speak to right now.

    Right now I consume one show a week from them. is that worth $5? Probably not. But I've been paying that and $10 at one point for over a year. It's not about wether or not I have the right to pay 0, because of course I do. it's about me expressing my wants from a group that I really enjoy being part of. But I'm not hurt over whether or not they will listen. Things evolve and one day I may never watch them again. That's okay.



  • @CGamor7 said in Controversial opinion on EZA:

    they have quite abit of shows that aren't directly funded

    They have Fiasconauts, Don't Skip, Gundam, and Anime. I dont think I'm missing anything else.
    *Zelda Talk too



  • @TokyoSlim your right, I went and looked at the patreon list. I didn't realize some of the new stuff was added.



  • @TokyoSlim said in Controversial opinion on EZA:

    @CGamor7 said in Controversial opinion on EZA:

    they have quite abit of shows that aren't directly funded

    They have Fiasconauts, Don't Skip, Gundam, and Anime. I dont think I'm missing anything else.
    *Zelda Talk too

    Does friend code count? And the recent movie podcast with Ian/Huber?



  • @TokyoSlim said in Controversial opinion on EZA:

    Explaining things to ME doesn't change Brandon's mind though.

    I am telling you what the reality of the situation is. It's not that they can't, it's that they chose not to.
    It's the same deal when they get a studio. They can still choose to not to scripted stuff. In fact if they get to 50k then they have no real reason to change anything, so your assumption that they will magically pump out scripted stuff (without changing or removing anything from what they're currently doing) and the very thing you're trying to trick(?) or sell people into doing (upping their pledges, dissatisfied or no) is not very thought out.

    Patrons who fund these shows in order to make other shows. Even if the new shows are great, it's not what was promised!

    That's the mindset of a captain steering a sinking ship. If everything they added needs to stay then things will never get better. If something isn't working out you should consider changing or removing it. So I doubt Brandon is actually saying what you claim he's saying, he's most likely talking about specific stuff like Retrospectives.

    Because aside from a weekly cup of Jones that was retconned into being less often, they've fulfilled all the other promises they've made to Patrons.

    No they haven't. In any case have they truly promised scripted stuff once they hit 50k? Because I haven't seen or heard that anywhere.

    That's what all those shows are you keep trying to kill off.

    I'm saying that they're not an efficient usage of their time. Game Sleuth for example is fun, but is it 2 episode per year and 20 000$ stretchgoal fun? Is it really pulling in tons of paying supporters? I'm extremely doubtful.
    Also I said that shows could be changed as well, which you failed to mention.

    But again, without removing or changing anything, how do you expect the EZA crew to suddenly produce more scripted shows? They already put in loads of time in this thing.



  • @ZyloWolfBane Friend code was funded last tier instead of Storytime with Damiani which got mixed interest before it was funded.



  • @ZyloWolfBane brand and Kyle play Pokemon? I think friend code is the Nintendo podcast promised.



  • @TokyoSlim said in Controversial opinion on EZA:

    @ZyloWolfBane Friend code was funded last tier instead of Storytime with Damiani which got mixed interest before it was funded.

    Ahhhhh right, ok I forgot about that. The name changed a few times and then Zelda talk came along so I was a bit confused there lol.



  • @suplextrain yeah they have to be adaptive just like anything.



  • @suplextrain said in Controversial opinion on EZA:

    That's the mindset of a captain steering a sinking ship. If everything they added needs to stay then things will never get better. If something isn't working out you should consider changing or removing it.

    Again, EZA isn't sinking, failing, floundering, or in trouble. They are stupendously successful with what they have done and how they've gone about doing it. So I'm not sure where you're coming from here. What they're doing isn't "broken" so radically changing their entire business model to "fix it" seems weird to me.

    But again, without removing or changing anything, how do you expect the EZA crew to suddenly produce more scripted shows? They already put in loads of time in this thing.

    See: Logistics. We're going around in circles here.



  • @TokyoSlim I'd be curious on what they constitute as success. I mean if you compare their viewing numbers to other games media personalities, it looks really low. Especially when you factor how many EZA crew there are compared to the small groups or individuals that put out some polished content. Kyle alone on his channel was surpassing anything that EZA does collectively on his own.

    This is why I think they're missing growing opportunities that will help them with their studio goals.



  • @CGamor7 https://graphtreon.com/top-patreon-creators

    In the top 15 of all Patreons, I'd say that's pretty successful. The only gaming Patreon above them is Kinda Funny, which started in 2014 and has a lot less $s per patron per month. There's something to be said about the "they need more subscribers and not people to up their pledges" argument that was made earlier, because Kinda Funny has about 1,500 more patrons, yet is making almost $20,000 less a month.



  • @CGamor7 It's been repeatedly mentioned that Youtube views and clicks are barely even looked at. They produce the content we pay for, that's literally the deal. They always go out of their way to say that chasing clicks at GT was bad-horrible soul crushing commercial dross (my words) and they purposefully went with the Patreon model so they don't have to ever do that again. So for the most part Youtube clicks are meaningless.

    They have been successful beyond anyone's wildest expectations is what they say anytime anyone asks them that question.



  • @SabotageTheTruth said in Controversial opinion on EZA:

    @CGamor7 https://graphtreon.com/top-patreon-creators

    In the top 15 of all Patreons, I'd say that's pretty successful. The only gaming Patreon above them is Kinda Funny, which started in 2014 and has a lot less $s per patron per month. There's something to be said about the "they need more subscribers and not people to up their pledges" argument that was made earlier, because Kinda Funny has about 1,500 more patrons, yet is making almost $20,000 less a month.

    They also took a big hit after their recent fiasco, but that's besides the point.



  • Why does studio = more. Firstly when the allies want to do something they don't want to invade Brandon's place. A studio will not be BRANDON's place but the allies place. They can just go to the studio and do something. Also studio doesn't mean more but we won't know until it happens.