Sea of Thieves (XBO/PC)



  • @tokeeffe9 Somebody could certainly make that video... if that was happening.
    I really don't think there is some conspiracy to bash this game. It has very evident problems, and people aren't satisfied because of them. People demand more from games these days, especially with how quickly we consume content. If a predominantly multiplayer experience only offers a very limited amount of experiences or reasons to seek out those experiences, it isn't going to last no matter how fun it is. Destiny 2 is a great example if this. The actual gameplay in the Destiny games is superb, but when you can experience literally the entire game in a few sittings, people aren't going to come back



  • @tokeeffe9 said:

    It's just the standard reaction to a console exclusive game.

    I don't know about that, especially with it on PC as well. Just think it isn't what some people expected or like. It's going to take a very long time if ever for some players to accept games that expect more of them rather than treating them like idiots, and when your progression in this game is mostly intangible, then it's hard to point to what you're getting out of your time spent with it.

    People like to be outraged and more than likely, especially the ones who never had any interest in actually picking up the game.

    I think it is more the people who saw the game at E3 but went media blackout on it from then until release, although that crowd might be part of it too.

    @El-Shmiablo said:

    I just haven't been down with the idea of "games as a service" and with games releasing barely functional and with pitiful amounts of content these days, with only the promise of "we'll add stuff later" I find it hard to be excited for said game.

    The server side launch problems are a pity, but I wouldn't call the game barely functional. As for games as a service, developers are doing it now so people actually play their game for longer than a week. No matter how much content a game has, rabid players will eat it up in no time, so the only way to prevent that is to trickle it out gradually. As for this game in particular, I'm not sure if they even have a ton of content waiting to be released currently, just plans for future things to add once the base game is stable. Aside from the server issues screwing it up, the base game was in a finished state, hence the release now. While it might feel light on content in terms of things to do, you can tell how much time they spent getting everything just right like the way players control a boat together, the islands and treasure quests, the ocean itself and how ships mingle with it, the lighting and general atmosphere, etc. Plus, even though it is all cosmetic, there is a good selection of gear to earn for your pirate.

    @TheWorthyEdge Something definitely broke there. Hopefully nothing like that becomes common. Aside from a little jank here and there, haven't seen anything that bad myself. Least it made for an entertaining video.

    @El-Shmiablo said:

    Somebody could certainly make that video... if that was happening.

    There's definitely people enjoying this game right now. We just have to see if that enjoyment lasts or if those people quickly tire of it and join the side annoyed about the current amount of content and state of the game.

    I really don't think there is some conspiracy to bash this game.

    Not a conspiracy, but you know how the internet is when they make up their mind to love or hate something. Lots of bandwagoning.

    It has very evident problems, and people aren't satisfied because of them.

    Yeah, hopefully the developers can fix most this stuff soon. Sadly I know some things like the lame skeleton AI is way too complex an issue to get a quick fix anytime soon, so that's just kinda a wash. There's some variety now, but it would've been cool to have like armored skeletons you can only headshot or maybe even have to get behind them and cut their armor off like those Windwaker enemies. Honestly, my mind swells with ideas that would be cool in this game, like if skeletons would pop halfway out the ground grabbing a player's legs, preventing them from moving until dealt with. There's a wealth of cool pirate fantasy to derive from, so there really should be no shortage of inspiration.

    People demand more from games these days, especially with how quickly we consume content.

    Like I said above, players will devour any amount of content that is present unless you trickle it out over time. This game probably is better off going for a model where players can return with their friends every couple weeks to check out new content as long as they can keep public perception from turning too sour on the game and people still caring enough to keep coming back. Also, they need to work out these server issues or they'll keep getting smashed every time there's a content patch. I'm glad this game isn't like Destiny though. I don't want to have to grind light level up to be strong enough to experience a new thing. I like how this game is setup, so you learn by doing and from experienced pirates players to get naturally better at the game itself, rather than get artificially better through stat gains.


  • Global Moderator

    @el-shmiablo I'm not suggesting it's a conspiracy. I'm just saying this is the norm for a big game and even more so when it's an exclusive.

    Anyway, I'm actually going to play with a few soon. So we'll see if it'll be my last time playing it.



  • I can't wrap my head around a game where you are living out a pirate fantasy, yet the experience is hollow and void of ideas.



  • @dipset It nails all the basics from sailing rough seas with a crew to elaborate treasure hunts to ship versus ship combat with cannons and ramming to taverns and tunes to swashbucklin' spooks to sharks to swindlin' ships and booty to cursed treasure to even The Kraken. People just want yet more.



  • @mbun

    But they can do more with what they currently have.



  • Not to continue the "bashing" but as someone who doesn't have a great PC or an XBox, I've got to get my info from somewhere.

    Youtube Video

    The thing that really shocks me the most is... there's only one type of ship? In a game.. about sailing? That's so strange to me.

    I don't think the lack of a real progression system means a game is dead in the water (I'm so sorry for this pun) but there has to be other offerings. Overwatch just has cosmetic items you earn by playing but not only does it have distinct modes to try, nearly every one of those characters has a different feel to them. My experience is going to be vastly different if I pick between Pharah or Mercy.

    What I essentially see from everyone online is the sentiment - it's a lot of fun if you play with people you know, for maybe an hour or two and the aesthetics and vibe are on point. While it's nice to have that essence, I'd say a large majority of gamers enjoy multiplayer games you can really sink your teeth into for more than bite-sized chunks. If everything I've heard is true (only one enemy type, no weapon upgrades, few variety of weapons, PVP is generally pointless, all quests are fetch quests) then... even if I did have the right equipment, I'd say this game isn't for me, in its current state. I'd also go out on a limb and say that particular set-up isn't for most people, especially when you consider it's being sold as a full price game. There's still time for Rare to turn the ship around (again, I'm so so sorry) but.... considering artists working on the game have been quoted as saying, "I have never worked on a game developed so slowly," I'd say these might be some troubled seas.


  • Global Moderator

    I'd agree with a lot of that. I put in a decent amount of time today. About 2 hour with two of us and maybe the same with a group of 3. While it was two of us, I was honestly kinda already done with the game. Of the three types of quests you get, I really only like the one where you find treasure. Get a map, find the island find the X. That I find pretty rewarding but fighting Skeletons and picking up items for merchants is pretty boring or far too tedious to consider doing it unless you happen to have certain items with you, like the cages. So we just did a few quests, met one other person who killed us but it didn't matter at all because we were at an outpost with nothing.

    But then I did come back to check it out with a group of three and actually had a much better time. We used the main, big ship (so technically 2 ships @SabotageTheTruth ) and I found that pretty fun to co ordinate around. And I think we had a lot of fun just because the world was a bit more a live. We saw a few ships around that were just in the distance, we did our quests, fought a kraken, found a sunken ships and finished up by trying to fight and join other ships and players. So in those moments the game was a lot of fun. The systems in place, specifically coordinating what everyone should be doing is pretty fun. So with that session, I would at least consider playing the game again.

    I do want to point out one thing in the game that I find feels really cheap. When you die on a sinking ship... or not die I guess. The Kraken sunk the ship in our fight and by the time I realised, the game just went to a black screen, and after what felt like a decent while, we were just floating in the water where the Kraken was and then a mermaid appeared so we could spawn back on a new ship somewhere else. That whole sequence just felt bad... and it always happens when you're on a sinking ship. Just really bizarre.

    Anyway, overall I probably wouldn't recommend the game. If you have a crew of 4, you're absolutely going to have a fun time for a while, messing around with the different mechanics and how they combine but there really isn't anything in the game that drives you on I suppose. The video @SabotageTheTruth posted does kinda nail it, it didn't really know who to target and in the end it's not really for anyone (or a very small audience). So, I might play it again and if they've any big update over the next week or two, I could still hop on but it's pretty unlikely.

    In terms of big misses for me, the enemy variety really sucks and the lack of any major exploration on the islands is pretty disappointing. I was hoping we'd find some caverns and things like that to find treasure in but it doesn't seem to be the case and then the treasure is just gold to buy cosmetics so... ya. I'm underwhelmed.



  • @sabotagethetruth said:

    The thing that really shocks me the most is... there's only one type of ship? In a game.. about sailing? That's so strange to me.

    There's ships for one person crews and big ships for multi person crews, so there's more than one type of ship.

    but not only does it have distinct modes to try

    Sea of Thieves has three distinct factions to play.

    I'd say a large majority of gamers enjoy multiplayer games you can really sink your teeth into for more than bite-sized chunks.

    Most multiplayer games achieve that through a grind progression, which isn't much better than what's here, just doing the same thing 50X to earn the right to do the new thing once, whereas here it feels like there's less cause you can immediately move on to the next thing and exhaust everything quicker as a result.

    If everything I've heard is true (only one enemy type

    There's only skeletons, however there's multiple kinds of skeletons with their own properties, not to mention sharks, other players, The Kraken, etc.

    no weapon upgrades

    Cosmetic upgrades so nobody has an unfair advantage, and it all comes down to skill.

    few variety of weapons

    They're pirates, so you're only gonna have your cutlasses, couple guns, cannons, etc.

    PVP is generally pointless

    It isn't though. It adds stakes to going on long voyages, because you can be killed and robbed at any time, or you yourself can go out and plunder other people's booty, like you know, a pirate would?

    all quests are fetch quests

    If you call a treasure hunt a fetch quest, you're being awfully reductive but sure. The Merchant Faction quests are fetch quests and that is bad and needs to be fixed. The quests where you kill skeletons I can see where they also appear to be fetch quests since you have to bring back their heads as proof of killing them, but that's also how that would work in a world like this to prove you did the thing and get the reward.



  • @tokeeffe9 said:

    I do want to point out one thing in the game that I find feels really cheap. When you die on a sinking ship... or not die I guess. The Kraken sunk the ship in our fight and by the time I realised, the game just went to a black screen, and after what felt like a decent while, we were just floating in the water where the Kraken was and then a mermaid appeared so we could spawn back on a new ship somewhere else. That whole sequence just felt bad... and it always happens when you're on a sinking ship. Just really bizarre.

    I knew that stuff was gonna be a problem when they announced you basically get unlimited free ships, but if you had to earn them people would play the game with way more restraint, no fun allowed attitude like EVE Online. Maybe you should have to earn the big ones and everyone starts out with a small one and that'd be better, but then who keeps the ship when everyone logs out after yall pool your money together to buy a big one, and what if the big ships just go around bullying all the little ships? It's a hard solve in general.

    I was hoping we'd find some caverns and things like that to find treasure in but it doesn't seem to be the case and then the treasure is just gold to buy cosmetics so... ya. I'm underwhelmed.

    There are caverns, but they're small, surface level ones. You're onto something with chest treasure only being gold, but I guess they didn't want to put cosmetic items or whatever in them and have crews fight over the limited loot.


  • Global Moderator

    @mbun It's more the experience I'm talking about. The screen going to black and just removing the ship in that situation felt extremely jarring. I wish we could have just swam out of the ship instead. But when you're in the hull and the it's full of water, it seems to just black out the screen.



  • Nobody in this wants to interact unless it's to kill. It's really not fun solo that's for sure...



  • This post is deleted!


  • @tokeeffe9 Gotcha. Yeah, that blows.

    @TheWorthyEdge Depends who you meet, but they could do a better job giving incentive to picking up strays as well as making them officially part of your crew. I guess they know how broken it would be to have like twelve people on one ship during combat versus a ship with a crew of the standard four, but maybe they could balance it so extra crew weighs your ship down making it slower?

    Brad was calling for a PvP faction in his review, but I have a feeling they didn't want to make that, because players are already eager enough to rob one another without it, so if it existed you'd never get a moment's rest from people coming after you. Maybe they could do a ship battle faction that primarily matchmakes with others in the same faction as a solve though? Lots of tricky balance issues with making a game like this.



  • @mbun PVP could work by having a Safe Mode for players who don't want to engage, but reduces rewards for completing quests/finding treasure. Don't want to take the risk? Don't get as big a reward.

    I also like your weight idea for ships. Could even have to throw treasure or supplies off the ship to increase speed and maneuverability. Could mark bailed treasure with a bouy so you can come back for it after a skirmish.



  • @el-shmiablo That could work if there was like "safer seas" quests that rewarded less but wouldn't spawn other players in those areas. Throwing treasure overboard to speed up sounds fun too, but instead of bouys that other players could easy see, maybe you could use the map to mark where your ship currently is to come back for it later? That way there'd be some skill to when you toss the treasure overboard, hoping your chasers don't spot you dumping it through their scope, and when you came back for it later, there'd be some skill to finding the exact place you dumped it and salvaging it out the sea.


  • Global Moderator

    Here is Brad's review

    Youtube Video



  • @mbun I was thinking more like a toggle. Something like “Favor of the wind and sea" where you can still interact with players, but if they try to attack you, canonballs will be deflected by waves/carried off by wind, or attackers will be pushed away by waves/wind. But then when you bring treasure aboard some of it is taken as a sort of sacrifice.
    Idunno.


  • Global Moderator

    I'd no idea raids were even in the game. Although, they seem more like the equivalent of a public event from Destiny but you can fight for the treasure afterwards. That would have been pretty fun to check out at least once but again, it looks a little too simple to hold interest after a few tries.



  • @tokeeffe9 When a game's meta resembles Destiny's sidequests...

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