That's News!



  • @El-Shmiablo completely agree, if this is innapropiate because of the way it depicts violence, you would essentially be saying that you can't portray violence to any character if they happen to be women.

    Everything that happens in the trailer makes sense in that universe, even if we dont fully underatand the circumstances



  • For a second I thought I accidentally went back to ResetEra shivers



  • I'm all for critical thinking and written pieces that come at things from another point of view to my own. I just didn't particularly agree with the polygon article on it's viewpoint. I kinda felt like it was clutching at straws with it's examples. And the thing it was complaining about, the shock value, you could argue that very article does the exact same thing.

    Just on a side note, the whole thing on context. Do we really need exposition on why a certain situation is happening. In the case of TLoU, it's a brutal world, I don't really want the entire mystery of the scene taken away by 2 characters explaining their cult and what they want.



  • Again, Nintendo with some fantastic numbers. What a great year for them.



  • I feel like im on both sides of this. Based on my first post I agree. I have no issue with creators depicting what they need to in stories. Especially when it's fitting to the world.

    But what i think some ppl are trying to argue, yes I know some ppl are yelling for the sake of it, but some from my understanding are saying that this was a violent depiction for the sake of showing violence with zero context. It was just a violent trailer that it's. Nothing else. I will add a quote below because this is what stood out to me and made me think.

    @Haru17 said in That's News!:

    I think it's a painfully apparent reaction to be accusing of being untoward. Naughty Dog chose a weird scene to release as a trailer with all new characters and terminology, the only thing the audience has to connect with was empathy for these characters getting cut, beat up, strangled/hung, and having their arms broken.

    this trailer doesn't explain much of anything to permit the context for why these people are murdering each other.

    If this was part of an additional scene after a trailer or even a scene after a discussion with the creators, it probably would have been better received. I get why ppl would have wanted a warning before the trailer. This level if violence being depicted isn't for everyone and that's okay. But by itself is where the issue is. It seems like naughty dog was saying let's show them the most violent thing to show them how dark it is. That is by definition using violence to sell you game. Is that why ppl buy naughty dog games? No it's not. At least I don't think so anyways.



  • Dualshockers - 67.5 Million PS4 Shipped by September 30th; Prediction by March 2018 Raised to 79 Million

    As usual, we get an update on PS4 shipments. Sony Interactive Entertainment sent to retailers 4.2 million units during the quarter, which brings the total to 67.5 million units shipped in the console’s lifetime.

    I was going to include another quote but it looks like they made some mistakes. Basically they expect to ship 19 million units by March 2018.

    Considering the PS4 is still a relatively expensive piece of tech, it's still selling at a massive rate. I'd be shocked if it doesn't outsell PS1.



  • @CGamor7 said in That's News!:

    But what i think some ppl are trying to argue, yes I know some ppl are yelling for the sake of it, but some from my understanding are saying that this was a violent depiction for the sake of showing violence with zero context. It was just a violent trailer that it's. Nothing else. I will add a quote below because this is what stood out to me and made me think.

    But this is not zero context, we know TLoU, we know its world, we know it is violent and unrelenting, the trailer is consistent with that, and I imagine that the idea of showing stuff with new characters is that they want to show that there's more to the game that the characters we know, with a minimum amount of references to let us know it is all in the same world.

    I suspect if you are looking at it from a completely uninformed point of view with no knowledge of TLoU you could argue that there's no context for it, but at least for myself and I would imagine the main target of the trailer the context is already there.



  • I'm a bit torn on the TLoU2 trailer. I can kind of see where Polygon is coming from but I don't think Naughty Dog had any ill intent. I never played TLoU because I'm not one for post apocalyptic stories, but I always understood the story and characters to be the main draw of the game, not the violence. Which I think is the main issue here, not the content of the trailer but the lack of context. You can say that the world of TLoU is harsh and unforgiving, and that explains why the people in this trailer are being tortured, but I don't see that as enough context. In a world on the brink of collapse you might expect people to fight over resources or in self defense, not to be held captive and be harmed intentionally for the sake of causing pain or distress. The viewer should know why this particular act of violence is taking place, because for what I've heard about TLoU it is not the norm.

    And on the subject of violence against women, it is a real issue in the media. What needs to be realized is that all violence involving women is not the same. There's a difference between a woman being engaged in combat and a woman being held and tortured. As a woman I love to see women in the media kicking ass and being seen as equal threats to their male counterparts, but stuff like this where it's just a woman being tortured does make me uncomfortable. And maybe the game wants to make you uncomfortable. Bad things happen in games all the time for the sake of narrative progression. Innocent people die, children and animals get hurt, taboo actions take place, all for the sake of the story. The point is that when those things take place, the game is usually trying to tell the player that those sorts of things aren't ok. That we should be disgusted by them. Unless horrible acts against other humans and living things are portrayed as villainous it's easy for he player to get the wrong idea. I'm sure most players who play games that have these sorts of subjects in them are old enough and have a solid enough concept of morals to know that torturing a woman is never ok even if it happens in a video game. But there are impressionable people who play games, and there are people with lax morals out there who might take an un-vilified act of violence as confirmation of their own warped beliefs.

    I'm not saying that the gaming industry should bend over backwards to try and correct people who's views of the world are skewed when basic morals should be obvious, but it is something to consider.



  • @michemagius said in That's News!:

    And on the subject of violence against women, it is a real issue in the media. What needs to be realized is that all violence involving women is not the same. There's a difference between a woman being engaged in combat and a woman being held and tortured. As a woman I love to see women in the media kicking ass and being seen as equal threats to their male counterparts, but stuff like this where it's just a woman being tortured does make me uncomfortable.

    It should be uncomfortable because it is a person being tortured, there shouldn't be an argument for the person being a women making this worse, them being women didn't have any clear significance on the events taking place. Yes violence against women is a big problem we face in reality and of course it needs to be dealt with in an appropriate way if it is going to be discussed in gaming or any other media, but that is not what the scene was about, the gender of the persons being harmed had nothing to do with it.

    I also don't think the trailer is about violence, yes it is heavily portrayed in there, because that is their world, it is a defining characteristic of their future that there are violent groups and staying away from that would be disingenuous, we may not understand the motivations of the actions taking place in the trailer, but they are clearly there, and I think it is perfectly serviceable for that to be the case, as this helps with the world building for the game, letting us know there are more things out there than what we know.



  • Eurogamer interview with David Cage. Here's my favorite part:

    @Eurogamer

    I'm not disputing that at all. The concern I have is that it's using something like domestic abuse and child abuse - which is a very real issue for unfortunately far too many people - and using it as window dressing rather than exploring the ramifications of those issues.

    David Cage: There will always be people thinking that we've used this... But I don't think that's what we do. If you look really into the game and if you play it you'll understand that the game is not about domestic abuse. It's a part of Kara's story - she's not a victim and she has a beautiful story. Hopefully you will be moved by what happens.

    Man, I hope Detroit flops. I'm so sick of this man's sexist, racist, awful video games.



  • @Rock

    I don't understand this. Why is domestic abuse off-limits but murder and war is completely fine?

    I smell a double standard.



  • @Hazz3r Because he wants to write deep storied art games. Not Battlefield or Call of Duty. He wants to be a profound intellectual when he is the furthest thing from it. His stories are embarrassing, pathetic, and shameful.

    Heavy Rain has a 25 minute sequence of 2 intruders breaking into the female lead's apartment and assaulting her. And it's a dream sequence that has no bearing on the rest of the game. Just wanted to have an attempted rape scene for the players. And let's just say he didn't improve with Beyond Two Souls.



  • @Rock I haven't looked into Detroit a lot, but it is honestly the first time I've been somewhat interested in one of his games, I've pretty much been rooting against him and his games since before Heavy Rain, so I can't really say I'm hoping it does well, I would at like if at least he would be separated from the team and the development to see if they can do better without his mentality being what is directing their games.



  • @bard91 I'm not trying to make the point that being a woman makes torture worse than it normally is. Any form of torture is shitty and unacceptable. And I don't know that the gender of the women who were tortured had anything to do with what happened to them, but without full context you can't possibly know that gender had nothing to do with it. A common theme in post-apocalyptic stories (at least from the ones I've read/seen) is that women often do become targets of violence and assault as soon as society collapses. So to say that there's no chance gender had a role to play in these events just seems ridiculous to me. There are people out there who are just sadistic and sick in the head who want to hurt others. But there are also people (including women) who hurt others that they perceive as weaker than them just to satisfy their own ego. I've seen it happen. And maybe my reaction to stuff like this comes from that fact that most of the women in my family, have been victims of abuse by other members of my family. In all the real life instances of violence and assault that I have personally witnessed, the abuser was never going after someone just because they wanted to hurt someone, anyone. The abusers I grew up with had positions of power, and if they really wanted to hurt just anybody they could have done so and gotten away with it. But instead they targeted the women in my family because they were women, because they perceived them to be weaker, less important, or undeserving of respect. Whenever I see an act of violence against a woman without context, that's where my mind goes.

    And maybe I just don't know what The Last of Us is really all about, but I always got the impression that most violence in that game was for the sake of survival, not just for the fuck of it. That's what this trailer looks like. Some people killing lots of other people for non essential reasons. And not just one person going on a rampage, the person leading the assault on those women had help, they had an organized system. This wasn't a random spur of the moment attack, this was deliberately planned and intentional. Maybe if the trailer was longer, if we got to see some past serious indiscretion on the part of the women who were tortured, or if we saw the people who were doing the torturing loose their grip on reality over time to the point that they became exceedingly violent, then maybe this trailer would be more effective. As it stands now, the trailer gives me the feeling of a more serious Dead Rising. Things going to hell and then the crazies coming out of the woodwork to take advantage of the chaos to get away with doing fucked up shit. If that's the vibe that TLOU is going for, so be it. But everything I've heard about the TLoU suggests that it's a story of building a new family with people you meet on your journey, of struggling to survive, and of dealing with grief, and if that's not the case then the marketing and promotion of the game this far is the thing that's disingenuous.

    Honestly I could care less whether or not people play this game. There are games that are a lot more violent, a lot more insidious out there. I know full well that the vast majority of people who play games with violence don't go on to commit acts of violence themselves. I'm not one for senseless violence so unless later information revealed about the game tells me this form of premeditated-ritualistic violence isn't considered commonplace or acceptable in this world, then I'm going to pass. And I was considering playing the original because everyone told me the story is great, but if what you guys are all saying is true and I can expect this sort of thing to happen a lot in the first game, I think I'll pass on that as well. If you're not bothered by this kind of thing, or at least not bothered enough to avoid playing it, then congratulations. You have a threshold for violence that's a lot higher than mine. But that doesn't make me or the other people who are bothered by this wrong to be opposed to it. Like I mentioned in this previous post, without knowing full context, and knowing their past works and statements, I can't possibly say that Naughty Dog had any ill intent with this. That doesn't make it something that everyone has to accept though.



  • @Rock said in That's News!:

    Heavy Rain has a 25 minute sequence of 2 intruders breaking into the female lead's apartment and assaulting her. And it's a dream sequence that has no bearing on the rest of the game.

    I disagree with that. A significant part of Madison's character is the fact that she has crippling Insomnia and nightmares. This gameplay sequence really helps to showcase that to us without Madison just stupidly saying aloud "I have crippling Insomnia and nightmares."

    We learn later in the one and only DLC, The Taxidermist, that this is because the canon ending of that DLC has Madison escape the house with the guy shouting at her that he's going to kill her. At least that's the theory.

    It's also there for the sake of pacing. If it wasn't for that scene then Madison would do nothing but tend to Ethan's injuries for the first three quarters of the game.



  • I hate Heavy Rain (except the memes), I hate Bayond 2 Souls, I hate everything I saw about Detroit, I hate his style of game making, but he can make HIS game how HE wants to, I don't like it, I don't buy it, a simple concept really people seem to have unlearned.
    He should go back and make a game like Omikron again, or remake it, properly.


  • Banned

    @Rock FYI Heavy Rain was originally going to reveal that Madison was a war journist and the dudes in her dreams were a sort of PTSD of that.
    I'm not trying to say David Cage is a good writer, but you are really making a mountain out of a molehill.



  • Zwei: The Ilvard Insurrection just launched today on PC (Steam and GOG I believe). More Falcom goodness in a year with lots already!

    Take games like Ys and Gurumin, mash them together...and you sort of get Zwei...kind of, lol.



  • @michemagius yes we can't guarantee that them being women has nothing to do with what was happening, but there's also no reason for anyone to assume that is the case from what was shown, you are absolutely correct things can be assumed about what happens in that world based on similar works of fiction (and reality) but I think that is hardly fair as nobody really knows how any of this will actually play out. Are they supposed to not show something like this just because some may interpret it that way, or are they supposed to provide the whole context of the situation so it can be judged 100% fairly. I fail to see anything within the trailer that would imply any of that, obviously every person watching a trailer/movie or playing a game will bring their own baggage into it, and the people making it can't possibly account for that for everyone that may watch it, was is up to them is decide what would be a fair representation of what they are producing and obviously be accountable for anything in it and I can't for the life of me see how there's anything wrong with the depictions of violence or women in there.

    And on relation to the violence they clearly have reasons as to why they want to kill them, we have no idea about what those may be, but it certainly doesn't seem like violence for the sake of violence, maybe it is ritualistic or based on delusions, there's violence like that in the real world as well, it would think it silly to criticize a game for portraying it, if someone is uncomfortable with that there's obviously no need to approve of it, but implying that it is senseless or "worse" than other depictions of violence is unfair, especially without knowing the purpose in showing that.



  • @bard91 The issue isn't how it may be portrayed in game. It's how it's portrayed in the trailer. In the trailer there's very little context given leading to the impression that the violence is senseless. And to your point, some violence absolutely is worse than other violence. I can't say that gender had anything to do with the violence, but as I said before you can't say without context that gender didn't play a role. Because the trailer presented the violence without context it opened itself up to different interpretations of the situation. This scene may very well have strong narrative driven reasoning in the game, but we get none of that in the trailer. If TLOU is a game built on story and emotions this trailer didn't display that. And if Naughty Dog wanted to advertise that aspect of the game then they failed with this trailer. But based on the content of the trailer it doesn't seem like they're advertising what I'm told is the game's greatest draw, the story, they're advertising the over the top violence that can be found in the game. There's nothing wrong with over the top violence in games when in proper context. And the context can be something like Dangan Ronpa where there reasoning is simply "look how crazy we can get with these murders" but DR lets you know from the start what you're in for and the executions are portrayed as being horrible and something to be avoided. This is a game that's from what I'm told is meant to be based in a bleak reality. If you don't want people to misinterpret the message your game is sending, you have to provide context for what you show.