Hall of Greats Compendium
So a few thoughts from myself -
I've quickly realized Hall of Greats is one of my favorite streams, just seeing the Nine brought together to deliberate all sorts of games makes me happy. Still, there's a few things that have left a sour taste in my mouth. The largest problem is.... presenting a game without actually saying one word about it. There's no doubt Journey has a great soundtrack, but the main idea is to discuss the game as a whole, not just one aspect of it. Granted, this has only happened once (and may have been done due to the nature of the game) but I would have much rather heard Blood say what makes this game great in his opinion. I really hope a rule gets set in place where the Ally must speak, or at least make their own content. Seeing how much work Ian put into Myst compared to just playing some tunes from the game, it felt really unsatisfying.
Don is right. Allies shouldn't be able to vote on their own games. I view it the same as someone making a post on Facebook - they don't need to like everything they post to their own wall, it's their thoughts/ideas, of course they're going to like it. It creates a really weird space where some Allies go all in on their own games, some maybe give themselves a third place vote, and others don't vote for themselves at all. There will be 8 other games to choose from, I don't see a scenario occurring where someone voting dislikes all 8 games.
As far as the new voting system - I loved this change. Just seeing how each Ally came to their decision and how they went through their thought process, it may have been my favorite part. Sure, tallying stuff in the end could potentially be sped up, but for a first effort, I thought it was great.
@SabotageTheTruth I will respectfully disagree with you about them voting for their own games. I think it's important that they vote for the games they really think are the best, and that might mean they really think it's the one they brought. I might worry about people gaming a system like this, but I don't think any of the Allies would vote based solely on wanting to win.
This is different than liking a post on Facebook where you're making an opinion on something. This is a vote, on something important to them. Ideally everyone comes to these thinking they will vote their own game, but it's great to see some have their minds changed, and sometimes staying strong on their feelings for their choice.
Kyle might have exaggerated with the example of Brad bringing Chrono Trigger and everyone else bringing Skyrim, but the point is sound. I don't want anyone forced into voting for a game they don't really like. Might be unlikely right now, with so many good games, but it's possible there will be a Hall of Greats where one of the allies doesn't really agree with three games.
Brannox last edited by Brannox
On voting for their own games, I'm on the side of they should. Look at all of Mr. Casanova's entrants: He is the only one who votes for his own, and since the ban went into effect, he is the ONLY person who has had EVERY PICK get banned.
That's not fair to him.
In the current system, there's nothing that can be done. He brings unique selections and gives great presentations, but whether he puts in one vote, or pushes all his chips on his choice, he is the only one that does so. If his own suggestion is implemented, I'm afraid his choices will have a big "0" next to his name. I also agree about forced votes: Vote for the three they truly believe in, even if it's one of their picks. It doesn't have to be the full three points, but if that's their choice, then so be it.
If Mr. Casanova chose a game that has more popularity, or more specifically to his fellow Allies' tastes, and not his own, he has a better shot of getting votes. And that, in its essence is wrong.
So, if he doesn't bring what he truly believes is "One of the Greats" (tm), he isn't doing so in the spirit of the Hall of Greats. If he does, and stays true to his tastes, he doesn't get votes. And seeing him crushed that Super Mario Maker get banned (I would've put 2 chips on it) is heartbreaking, because now he's got a THIRD game he can't bring back.
edsortiz last edited by edsortiz
I believe things get a bit weird when the Allies and viewers start referring to the individual as a "Winners". Brad DID not win... Chrono Trigger won. Kyle did not win, Pokemon Blue and red won the entree. They/us shouldn't be focusing on who gets a win or not, the important thing is choosing what they deem worthy of being the greats and that it represent the group, because in the end its not Kyle's or Brad's Greats, its the EZAs great.
Following this, the scenario of an individual forced on choosing between games he even hates is irrelevant, because there will be two chosen no matter what. It doesn't matter if the individual hates it, someone of the group nominated and won the votes. So choose the one you hate the least XD. So in the crazy scenario that you bring X game and all the others bring Skyrim? Then guess who will democratically be chosen by the voters to reflect the group? Skyrim.
I dont really have an opinion on which one would be better, i think that statistically, it wouldn't change that much. Im interested in testing it out hypothetically with one of their votes
Brannox last edited by
@edsortiz I respectfully disagree in terms of the "forced vote" aspect. As I said, they should vote for what they want to see get in and truly believe in. That means if there are games they don't believe are good enough in comparison to other options, then they shouldn't vote for those. So even if the majority voted for the option the hypothetical voter didn't like, the hypothetical voter STILL got to pick the ones they wanted, not because they were forced to pick something popular. Also, with nine games for nomination, the likelihood that one Ally would dislike AT LEAST seven of those is statistically low.
But, in the end, this is nothing more than fun conjecture. The thing that interests me the most about the current Hall of Greats is that all eight entries exist in the five year window of the mid 90s. That isn't a bad thing, but it does provide a fun guessing game which non-90s game will be the first to get in. I understand the 90s was the first big leap in quality of gaming and a time which they grew up on so that period holds a special place, but it is curious.
Since it's a work in progress, I honestly don't see a problem with experimenting and trying something new out. As has been said, it wouldn't affect that much, but it would inspire a bit of a change and would even make deliberations a little easier - you would now be choosing between 8 games instead of 9. Since only two games are inducted each time and there's 8 inducted a year... I honestly don't even see a scenario happening in our lifetime where an Ally would view all 8 options as stinkers - this would only change if they started doing this stream more often and inducting waaaay more games. If it's a system no one liked, they can revert to the old way but right now there's not a strong enough reason to not try it out.
The one thing that still doesn't seem to be considered though would be the strength of the case being made, not the game. I do worry that we'll not continue to get the well-thought out words of Don or the brilliant videos from Ian because despite those being extremely well thought out arguments they still lose - that's not me saying Chrono Trigger or Pokemon had bad arguments made for them though. Maybe it's not even something I should bring up, as a case for Journey was almost non-existent and as such, received no votes and a system that rewards a game that happened to have someone make a video for it could become unbalanced fairly quickly. Hopefully the Nine continue to find creative ways to showcase games because those are generally highlights as well.
I really wish Ian would nominate Silent Hill 2 already.
Brannox last edited by Brannox
@SabotageTheTruth To use a different Ally as an example, I'll bring up Mr. Bosman, and his nominee of Pokemon. Because it BARELY squeaked in by one point, if Mr. Bosman did NOT vote for his own nominee, it would not have gotten in. He voted for his own game because he believed it to be "One of the Greats" (tm) ahead of the others he didn't vote for and Mega Man X. My point isn't about quantity of choice but desire. It all comes down to how the given Ally feels.
And my ONLY issue about change is that it's constant with barely a foundation of format. In four Hall of Greats streams (I agree too! I LOVE them), the process has had three revisions and new rules are added each stream. I could go on a complete rant about thicker than necessary rule books, but I won't bore you. Suffice to say, personally, too many rules, too many problems.
I agree about strength of case. I feel Misters Hinck and Casanova give the best presentations, but it's for naught. Especially in the latter's case.
A7X458 last edited by
I'm really glad Pokemon R&B got in, but imo Gold and Silver are the superior games, they fixed alot of the 1gen issues in G&S, like the crit rate and separating special defence and attack but i am glad one got in.
Hazz3r last edited by
@A7X458 Not to mention Gen 1 Miss.
@SabotageTheTruth Well it's possible to make a rule where the argument has to be the most important factor, but that's not gonna change that allies will think a game is one of the greats whether the person that brought it really did a good job presenting it. We saw that clearly with Chrono Trigger. Not to mention it might make it easier for the people who are better speakers, or planners. I did love Ben giving a point to Ian solely on how good his video was.
Otos last edited by
Hall of Greats CONSPIRACY:
Bosman mentioned in an episode that alliances are accepted in the Hall of Greats. I believe that Ian and Ben have formed an alliance to make sure that their games wont be banned. Since the rule of banning games Ben and Ian have voted for eachothers games in each episode, even if they hadn't played them. If I'm not mistaken Ian hasn't played any of the three games that Ben has brought during these latest three episodes (even going as far as givin Megaman x 3 votes without having played it). Ben expressed distaste for Mist but still voted for it. It is very much possible that they just like eachothers presentations and I'm totally wrong. I just wanted to point this out.
Love and respect to all allies.
@Otos I do enjoy a conspiracy theory, though I will say if nothing else Ben voting for Mist was due to Ian's superb video for it.
If this was the rest of the Internet I'd expect to see a follow up response to this going through the step by step ways that this exactly confirms Half Life 3, even if that joke is super old.
DIPSET last edited by
Maybe, maybe not. The back door shady deals make for good tv though!
@Otos Whether you're right or wrong, you've given me something to pay attention to for the next stream.
Sentinel Beach last edited by Sentinel Beach
This fifth HoG session was my favourite so far. It was just somehow super entertaining, I had so many laughs, there was lots of excitement with four or five top candidates having a good shot of making it. Really good show, so thank you Allies!
I was rooting for Witcher 3, but nope. Not this time. At least RE4 made it in! Really happy to see so much love for that game among the group. And here on the forum people didn't vote for it even into the Top100 list we made. You maniacs, it's one of the Greats!
tokeeffe9 last edited by
I could not believe RE4 made it in. I feel like we all forget the island section of that game. And with it up against games like The Witcher 3, SotC and Dark Souls... just shocked.
The show was a lot of fun though, easily my favourite stream that they do. Shadow of the Colossus getting 1 vote hurts, I cannot deny that :(
DIPSET last edited by
These streams will always hurt in one way or another. All 9 games brought are generally amazing games and generally accepted as "greats" so it's always going to sting for somebody. I love The Witcher, but keeping TW3 out was no sad loss to me.
Everybody brought good picks. I think these streams are more fun than serious and I'm surprised the Allies got a little too serious about D&D when this whole stream is kinda light hearted and fun. I appreciate Jones bringing Pong as well. It's all for fun.
edsortiz last edited by
The Bosman Concordant cracked me up so bad XD. #callHoeg!!
So... These streams were initially up there as one of my favorite things the Allies do but I can't help but feel a little... meh, about what I just watched, and that has absolutely nothing to do with what games made it in.
During the rebuttal section, I can't count the number of times "But why didn't you bring this game instead?" was phrased as a question and honestly, it adds nothing to the conversation. It should be pretty obvious that the Hall of Greats is intended for video games, so I'm really unclear on how D&D was allowed to even show up - just like Blood, I was wondering if Monopoly was going to show up for the next stream. Reading a review for a game verbatim (especially when that review came out in the last month) feels like the epitome of lazy. The other distinction is this is voting for the Hall of Greats, not the Hall of Importance, so while I'll agree Pong is important, I don't think anyone is going to make a case for it actually being great.... which is literally the name of the stream. Also, someone not showing up and still presenting a game means all the other games lose out on potential votes, while that game can be voted on by everyone.
Although this was far and away my least favorite Hall of Greats stream, there were a few things I appreciated. Ben voting for who made the best argument is glorious because it rewards those who put in time to defend their game - plus seeing Don light up like that was worth it. Also, the Don/Kyle alliance while absolutely scummy, is perfect and adds a bit of a twist to the voting, which I greatly appreciate.
Hazz3r last edited by Hazz3r