Discussion: The toxicity of consumers and how it affects game devs



  • Fantastic post @Axel for giving insight and getting across what the topic is actually discussing, how open a developer can be.

    Personally I think it's worth being open to tell us some of the tricks and processes developers use to enlighten the people who actually want that information in spite of the small portion of awful people out there. I would just hope that the minority would keep getting smaller.



  • @El-Shmiablo
    Was going to say the same thing, its gameplay alone is worth the $60 in my opinion, but at the same time its hard to overlook things that are (and will be if my theory is right) Disney's fault down the road. Such as cutting X-Men and Fantastic Four characters, the rather bland art direction ("it must look like our movies") and rather small launch roster, possibly caused by Disney wanting the game out close enough to bank on recent films, with Spiderman:Homecoming having its digital home release in September, physical in October, and Thor Raganorck in November, and from October thru December all 6 of the DLC roster will be released at 2 a month, along with costume DLC during said time frame that loosely ties into the film releases (Plant Hulk costume gets wide release when Thor 3 comes out as a example)
    Assuming the trend continues then its safe to say that we will see some costume DLC when Black Panther comes out in Febuary, along with maybe a pack of 2 costumes releasing each month until May when Avengers 3 is released at which point we will be getting costumes and characters. Again it's just a theory but it does make some business sense, throw a trailer on the Spider-man bluray, and in front of Thor, Black Panther, Avengers 3 and possibly Star Wars (Major Disney related film that will have a mass number of asses in seats). General audiences will get a reminder of MvC every couple of months at that point.

    Although to spoil the story of MvC:I they do have a small gap to explain if say down the road Wolverine joins the roster. There's a line towards the start of the game about various unnamed characters dying when the convergence happened. When Ultron Sigma Omega is killed, thus permanently fusing the two worlds together there is another line about the permanent fusion possibly bringing the dead back to life. Assuming said dead are say previous MvC veterans and new comers. There is at least some wiggle room to explain them joining the roster from a story perspective...kinda.

    But like you said there is probably alot of over head from working with Disney on anything, let along using what has become one of Disney's biggest cash cows



  • One thing I will add though is that I don't entirely agree with this particular developer regarding devs not being open.

    I think things like GDC and even PSX give quite a bit of excellent insight into development. PSX at a more friendly level while GDC can get quite technical and generally all those panels are available online.



  • @tokeeffe9 Yes, the GDC panels are very interesting, you can find them here.

    This video about the making of Shadow Complex for example is pretty cool and a good example to follow for anyone making a Metroidvania game:

    Youtube Video

    Otherwise, good resources are Gamasutra or to a lesser extent GamesIndustry.biz.





  • If you think that Gamers are inherently toxic then what the hell are you doing in this industry. Why are you trying to make toxic people happy?

    I find this comment interesting when you compare it to the CD Projekt Red's standards. Their rule is that when it comes to make a decision like pricing, release date, etc, is that if they can't tell a room full of their consumers why a decision has been made then they don't make that decision. For example, they priced the Season Pass of The Witcher 3 at $25 because the original plan was to have 25 hours of content between both Expansions and they felt $1/hour of content was a good rate.

    In the same Witcher 3 talk, someone asked :

    Why is Iorveth nowhere to be seen in the game? And the Devs said "We intended to put him in, we did a lot of work, but he just didn't fit into the game, and we would have made the game worse by including him." No one got mad, even though I'm sure many many fans of the series would have loved to see Iorveth again. Luckily, they wouldn't talk about what he was planned to be, so I'm hazarding a guess that we'll be seeing something of him in Thronebreaker.

    So this kind of comment is interesting, because if a company/indie says "We don't feel comfortable being candid." not because I wonder about if gamers are toxic myself, but because I want to know what said company/indie is so ashamed of telling us.



  • @Hazz3r said in Discussion: The toxicity of consumers and how it affects game devs:

    If you think that Gamers are inherently toxic then what the hell are you doing in this industry. Why are you trying to make toxic people happy?

    I find this comment interesting when you compare it to the CD Projekt Red's standards. Their rule is that when it comes to make a decision like pricing, release date, etc, is that if they can't tell a room full of their consumers why a decision has been made then they don't make that decision. For example, they priced the Season Pass of The Witcher 3 at $25 because the original plan was to have 25 hours of content between both Expansions and they felt $1/hour of content was a good rate.

    In the same Witcher 3 talk, someone asked :

    Why is Iorveth nowhere to be seen in the game? And the Devs said "We intended to put him in, we did a lot of work, but he just didn't fit into the game, and we would have made the game worse by including him." No one got mad, even though I'm sure many many fans of the series would have loved to see Iorveth again. Luckily, they wouldn't talk about what he was planned to be, so I'm hazarding a guess that we'll be seeing something of him in Thronebreaker.

    So this kind of comment is interesting, because if a company/indie says "We don't feel comfortable being candid." not because I wonder about if gamers are toxic myself, but because I want to know what said company/indie is so ashamed of telling us.

    Precisely it, the only time any company has to fear being "Candid" is when they're doing something they KNOW is going to tick people off, like cutting content from a game, more DLC than was originally announced, delays (Which..yeah people need to chill about these, delays are good things), mechanical/design choices the dev team thinks are good but nobody else wants, ignoring feedback from betas, etc.

    If they had something positive to say, it's generally well met. I don't see the problem.

    It's like this whole world has turned upside down, if you criticize a product you spent money on it makes you "Toxic" but yet companies beg for your feedback left and right, so which is it?

    I mean if you don't want to be told when you're doing something wrong then yes, keep your mouth shut and let people vote with their wallets, but I'm sure the truth will hit the net long before that regardless, like Mass Effect Andromeda.



  • @Art even when devs are honest gamers usually put their tin foil hats on and make up these conspiracy theorys like the whole artificial scarcity thing with NES Mini.



  • @DMCMaster Man Troy is such a voice of reason, it's almost ridiculous.



  • @Hazz3r said in Discussion: The toxicity of consumers and how it affects game devs:

    If you think that Gamers are inherently toxic then what the hell are you doing in this industry. Why are you trying to make toxic people happy?

    Maybe because they like playing and making games? doesn't have to be for you.

    I also dont know how CD Project Red is any better? a few ppl have said this now. Just because they say a few things here and there that gets you beating your chest in the name of customer satisfaction they are now an open and candid company who shares things with you? CyberPunk 2077 was announced when? They haven't said a thing about it in years. so much for being open...

    So in reference to that video posted above by @DMCMaster you are apparently suppose to grow a thicker skin while faced with assholes online and turn it into a fun kinda game where you challenge those same assholes by saying even dumber shit?

    How about this. When your dealing with assholes online, why don't you speak up and say something actually intelligible. When people use misogynistic gender or racial slurs, why don't you actually have a voice of reason in that moment instead of encouraging more of the same behavior.

    In the first few minutes of his video he talks about how "core gamers" he meets sometimes tell him hes not a really dev because of the games he works on aren't "real games" but goes on to say how gaming culture isn't that toxic... by concluding with saying its pretty much okay for gamers to make ignorant criticisms and devs should just listen. How about ppl start being better human beings and making constructive criticisms instead of being allowed to sustain a acceptable status quo , because well their the customers...

    He makes some valid points throughout his video that in all reality should be common sense that its not even worth discussing.

    alt text

    Oh look a meme that exists because how absurd gamers can be... apparently its all made up.

    Look I understand that not all ppl who play games act like this. But enough do that its a problem. Just like he talks about how devs should listen to the customers (which i agree with) Maybe you should listen to the devs. but instead many of you are trying to invalidate feelings that devs may have about their customers. Two way street, we both have to have respect both ways. Unfortunately devs doesn't equal publishers and marketers which many on hear have focused on.

    There is plenty to bitch about in this industry with how things are done, but there's a constructive way and then there's a complete volatile and dehumanizing way. There's also your wallet.

    the reference to toxic is enough in that it exists, whether its on social media or game forums. It may be a small subset, but it seeps into into all areas including players thoughts. I personally have see enough of it, including this forum that is supposedly built around a community of respect to not even want discuss topics anymore. Ironically if your one of the toxic ppl, your definitely not going to recognize it.

    Have a little Love and Respect.