What Gaming "Flaws" Are You OK With?



  • I think the worst for me is any referral to certain design or creative choices as "archaic" or "outdated" when the design choice in question was never solely a result of technical limitations of the time. It could be something like giving the player limited saves or implementing a lives system, or even worse, a game simply choosing to have tactical or turn-based combat. I've honestly noticed some drastic changes to the average gamers tolerance and patience over the last decade or so, and not in a good way.

    "Come on, this shouldn't be a thing now. It's tweeenty seeeventeeen" (Well done Sir, you know the year)



  • I can't really generalize that, like in a turn based JRPG or so a stable framerate is not as important as a game that requires you to dodge attacks actively. A simple hack & slay doesn't need the tightest controls like you'd want them in a game were precise aiming is needed.
    Well I guess graphical complaints are something I can usually overlook, some muddy textures on walls or the ground, stuff popping in in the distance etc.
    And of course the complaints that always come from a certain type of game journos, this game is racist, this game is sexist, this game is not inclusive, really if anything this can convince me to buy a game I might have skipped otherwise, like HuniePop, never have been disappointed by that approach so far.



  • @Brannox said:

    Immersion breaking support AI (In other words, Ellie/Sam from the Last of Us and Uncharted 4 respectively)

    It's fine for those games, but playing Resident Evil 5 with your partner wasting all your ammo and healing items and having to baby them through tense combat situations kills the fun for you. That's one you definitely need a friend for instead.

    @Mr-M said:

    Sequels that do absolutely nothing different except the story get a pass from me as well, but I don’t understand why that’s an issue in story based games to begin with so I don’t know if that counts.

    Hard agreed. The obsession to innovate drives me crazy sometimes when a game is pretty much already perfect before and they radically change the next entry for the sake of appearing fresh and new. Sometimes I just like something the way it is and want another slice of that!

    @GoTaco said:

    I'm fine with very simple camerawork if the sets are artistic and the story is interesting.
    However, in Persona it doesn't ruin the experience for me.

    Persona is already doing so much elsewhere it doesn't need that added touch, but I see lots of JRPGs suffering from this sorta thing, and when you compare them to stuff like Xenoblade Chronicles you realize how important that stuff on top of good voice acting is to engaging you in a scene.

    A gaming console comes with the expectation that we should be playing games with some sort of challenging and fun action-reaction type gameplay,

    There's many forms of gameplay, doesn't have to be action focused, just has to be interesting. If the gameplay is simply a bland means to rushing you through a story, you might as well be watching a movie or tv series. Many story focused games have been turned into these actually, and of course back when Uncharted first started blowing up everyone was talking about "watching Uncharted" with their significant other/friends. Playing it? Who cares! What made it good had nothing to do with being a video game and that's the point when I say you really might as well just have made a movie instead. Gameplay needs to always add something to the overall package, and in games with great stories that blend them together with their gameplay like your example, that's even better and not at all what I'm talking about.

    @Torigasa-Reta said:

    the complaints that always come from a certain type of game journos, this game is racist, this game is sexist, this game is not inclusive

    Anytime I read something like that I just think "Okay, make your own game then." The game they're commenting on wasn't their vision, probably isn't marketed towards them, and they often don't take the time to understand why things in the game are as they are. Hell, this extends to localization when they have to change beer to something else cause the underage kids who grow up in this wartorn fantasy world were drinking beer. I get why you don't want to promote drinking to kids and need to change it, but don't demonize the original version for having something that'd make sense in the context of their world with different laws, rules, and culture. You didn't grow up in the world they did. You don't know what it's like. It floors me that people can not make a huff over fantasy racism (towards races that don't exist) and separate that from reality in these types of settings, but they lose it over a character wearing a skimpy outfit that's only "skimpy" by the standards of the current day world we live in now.



  • @Mbun I play primarily by myself, plus my interests are very skewed, so situations like you describe I don't run into. I DO get your example (which is one reason why I hate Ico and Shadow of the Colossus, but that's a different discussion), but it's not something I personally come across.

    Also, there is a difference between immersion breaking (what I describe) and gameplay hampering (what you describe)



  • Bad characters. Doesn't matter how good your gameplay is, if the characters are annoying or poorly written...

    alt text

    Also, fanservice.
    I'm not talking some light shit like the "pafu pafu" running gag in DQ games... more like when an entire game is based around fanservice, like Senran Kagura, Ar Tonelico Qoga, Neptunia, etc.



  • @El-Shmiablo said in What Gaming "Flaws" Are You OK With?:

    Bad characters. Doesn't matter how good your gameplay is, if the characters are annoying or poorly written...

    alt text

    Also, fanservice.
    I'm not talking some light shit like the "pafu pafu" running gag in DQ games... more like when an entire game is based around fanservice, like Senran Kagura, Ar Tonelico Qoga, Neptunia, etc.

    That sounds like "flaws" you aren't ok with.



  • I can overlook pretty much everything as long as the gameplay is good and the framerate is (more or less) stable.



  • @Mbun said in What Gaming "Flaws" Are You OK With?:

    Bad Story, because if story is my number one concern I'll partake of a medium where story is the most important thing versus games where gameplay should come first since that's the point of the medium.

    Depends on the game, an action game like Bayonetta or platformer like Sonic Mania, sure, but if I'm playing an RPG, I need a lot more there than just game play

    There is no reason that gaming can't be a medium where story is important. I'd never have finished the Mass Effect trilogy if not for the story and characters



  • @ACardAttack So you're saying if the gameplay is good it doesn't matter. Glad we agree.



  • @Mbun I see where you're coming from, but I disagree. I guess my question is the same as the people above. Why do you feel that a game can't have story as its most important element? I'm not judging, but I'm simply curious and think that it's an interesting view. Video games are made out of so many components, be it interactive, visual or audible. A good story doesn't have to be passive either. It can be part of the gameplay.

    OT:
    I'm usually not bothered by long loading times. In some games it can even provide a nice moment of respite.



  • I'm honestly okay with a lot. Most flaws don't even stand out to me until everyone on the internet bitches about it.

    Its easier for me to state what is a must.

    No story usually means zero investment on my part. (of course there are some exceptions). But when i feel like i'm just playing a game to play it with no attachment to the events taking place or characters involved then I feel like i'm just wasting my time.



  • @Quecken said:

    Why do you feel that a game can't have story as its most important element?

    Already listed my reasons, mainly that other mediums exist that can provide a purely story based experience without bogging the audience down with wading through unfun gameplay to view it.

    A good story doesn't have to be passive either. It can be part of the gameplay.

    Again, if it's not passive and is part of the gameplay, then you've made your gameplay interesting, at which point you at least have decent gameplay. My post was saying I don't need a game to have a great story as long as it has interesting/engaging gameplay. Story is an extra for me when it comes to games, not a necessity. Think of every arcade type game you've ever played. Pac-Man doesn't need story. Space Invaders doesn't need story. Downwell doesn't need story. It's not necessity for making video games enjoyable for me. Not saying there isn't games that come out that I wish had stronger or more focused stories, but rather I can easily forgive the lack of story if the rest of the package is solid, because my expectations for a video game differ from my expectations from a movie or television series or comic book.



  • @Mbun

    Gameplay has to be enjoyable, but doesn't mean it is the top billing. Mass Effect is okay gameplay, but I wouldn't finish it without the story and characters, that is what I'm saying.

    Story can be a big draw, and can draw over the gameplay. It's why I have little interest in Zelda BOTW, I'm sure the gameplay is really good, but I hear the story is lacking.



  • @ACardAttack You're missing the point. This thread is about what gaming "flaws" you're okay with. I don't need story to be good to enjoy my games. It's not a crucial element of the medium. Simple as that.



  • I can sit through a choppy frame rate if the game is worth it, for some reason I find it oddly satisfying to see. What I can't deal with (probably cuz I'm a big weeb) is a bad translation, it'd totally ruin it for me. An example for me is Mhana Khemia on paper, the game ran like garbage, looked like garbage, yet I loved it so much because of a good sound track and great gameplay loop



  • i'm cool with some jank if i like the general vibe of the game. i'd pick jank over overly-animated and semi-automatic animations



  • I try to be a lenient as possible when it comes to flaws on the technical side of things. Granted, as long as it doesn't go to the extreme. For example, I'll forgive a wonky frame rate unless it delves into Arkham Knight on PC territory. I'll forgive a bad character model unless they are truly Mass Effect: Andromeda levels of terrifying. Being primarily a story kind of player, I can even forgive poor writing, bad voice work, or massive plot inconsistencies if they are done it such a way that makes them funny to me, like an unintentional comedy.

    I think where I draw the line is when the game simply isn't engaging enough. Either the narrative is dull or the characters are entirely uninteresting, or if something I hate is largely tied into the mechanics of the game play or leveling system, like excessive grinding in a single player game.



  • , I'm perfectly fine with things like pop-ins, draw distance texture lowressing, or occlusion culling (objects that disappear for half a second when the camera is in certain angles.) Or clipping for that matter, which I know can annoy many people :)
    Because since I make games myself, I know how integral these things are to the performance. when I see someone who wants 60fps, AND no clipping and no pop-ins, I get the feeling that they want to eat the cookie and keep it.)

    ..Speaking of texture lowressing, (rendering an object with a lower resolution texture when far away, and not switching to the original HD texture until you're close enough) I had this insanely funny moment in Grand Theft Auto V, where a mountain failed to load the original texture in time, so for like 3 seconds, the entire mountain looked like something from, like, Banjo-Kazooie. It was a priceless moment that I will treasure for a long time !!!



  • I'm ok with towers in open worlds and grinding in general. Also an MMO style combat. Loving it!
    There might be a general affection towards single player linear games, especially these days, but I love the fact that I can return to a game day after day or even after a longer period of time and can still feel rewarded.



  • Graphics, i don't really care as long as the game is good. I can play old games as long as they are fun