Overrated/Underrated JRPGs



  • @suplextrain .Hack//G.U. lol. As a franchise, it's probably considered overrated. :p



  • @suplextrain
    hmm? i thought i was pretty clear. Complaints about combat system, besides saying it's broken.



  • @suplextrain said:

    especially if you interpret it as a personal attack

    I agree with most of what you're saying, but this is the internet and haters do call stuff overrated as a means of denouncing and turning people away from playing it. Just look at how much stock Kyle? (can't remember exactly who, sorry Kyle if that wasn't you!) puts in when anybody calls a game "meh". It completely kills his drive to try it. Lots of people are like that. They see a popular thing blowing up and are interested, but when a hater says it's overrated they decide to never play it. And you never know if the hater has even played the game, whether they gave it a fair chance if they did, or what their angle in general is.

    Also on the subject of haters, I think back to that guy on GT Live that one time that shat all over some game that's widely loved, think it was FF7. It's not that I don't believe that person and their points, but obviously they're on a crusade against the public perception of that game, otherwise they wouldn't treat their hatred for the game like an event. I can't say whether that particular person was doing it as a cry for attention, a publicity stunt, genuine seething disdain for the game, etc. but I can say they treated it like a modern Atheist treats religion, relishing in thinking their views are better than everyone else's.



  • @Bigdude1 said in Overrated/Underrated JRPGs:

    hmm? i thought i was pretty clear. Complaints about combat system, besides saying it's broken.

    What are you talking about here? What game? Do you want me to break down all the design problems with [insert title] game's combat or something? Why?

    @Mbun said in Overrated/Underrated JRPGs:

    I agree with most of what you're saying, but this is the internet and haters do call stuff overrated as a means of denouncing and turning people away from playing it.

    Which is why I said "(most people)".

    They see a popular thing blowing up and are interested, but when a hater says it's overrated they decide to never play it.

    That's fine. It's up to them to play whatever they want to play and it's not up to us to convince them to give a game a chance, but the people close to them.

    If some people say that X is the best thing ever but then a few people say that it's overrated then clearly the game has things that can drag it down. This paints a more realistic (non-optimistic) view of the game. This is better for anyone going into the game since the chance of them in turn going in and then thinking that the game is overrated isn't as high, since they've lowered their expectations.
    If people instead specified what it is they think is great about the game there would be less confusion and dissapointment from people and thus fewer people saying that something is overrated.
    Even with some of my favorite games of all time like Deus Ex I would still specify point out how it's the possible choices, freedom, music and so on that are the strong points and not just simply say "It's one of the best games I've ever played" or something.

    Sometimes I also think that people are too eager to oversell something in the hopes of trying to get more people to play a game they like. Like they think that if they mention some hiccups or only focus on a few parts they can't get people to try it. So while it's understandable you're still overselling it and if the person then goes into it expecting something being the best thing since sliced bread the chances of them being dissapointed and finding it "overrated" are much higher.

    But generally it's pretty obvious when someone honestly thinks that something is overrated and when someone is just being a contrarian/hater.



  • @suplextrain I just wanted some examples (see first reply) .never mind I stopped caring



  • I don't wanna call it overrated, since it's less that I think it's outright bad or something and more that it's just really not my style, but I can't get behind Earthbound at all. I've tried multiple times and every time something just kinda put me off of it. It's not the gameplay, I think it has some really good or at least interesting ideas and while I never finished Mother 3 when I tried playing that years ago for a host of unrelated reasons I overall enjoyed my experience with that. I couldn't really pin down what it is that I don't like about the game but it might be that it always gave me this impression it was being "quirky" just for the sake of being quirky.



  • It's almost like ratings are subjective so the concept of being overrated is also inherently subjective.



  • To me, I see underrated as "I understand the love" and overrated as "What the hell, I don't get the love at all". To try and account for the fact that these are never "objective" as @Haru17 rightfully points out.

    Overrated: I don't like Xenoblade. At all. Bleh characters. Bleh mechanics. Bleh grinding. Bleh Bleh Bleh.

    Underrated: Cannot think of an underrated JRPG. Could be I surround myself with too many JRPG hobbyists who proclaim every JRPG as the Second Coming of Citizen Kane. I may just have to play more B-tier JRPG's, too. Because I think most of the ones I played receive more than enough praise as is.

    EDIT: In light of the fact I cannot think of a JRPG, I will announce to everybody I hereby consider Danganronpa 1 & 2 to be JRPG's. And by my new, made-up definition of JRPG, I believe they are completely underrated, underplayed, and are, quite possibly, the greatest JRPG's on the planet. drops mic



  • @HeyItsThatChris The correct answer is any rpg from Falcom. :)



  • Xenoblade Chronicles X is the best JRPG of the past decade. I like my JRPGs with no story. Make more like this one!



  • @DeweyDTruman said:

    I can't get behind Earthbound at all

    Earthbound was fun to experience, but as someone who just played it for the first time last year and never looked at the instruction manual, it doesn't hold up to today's standard of giving your players a clear idea of what they should be doing and where they should be going. Got lost many times, but I did manage to clear it without using a guide, so there's that. Still was a great time as someone who had never seen it before.

    @suplextrain Well, it's 2017, and it's tough enough simply to get others to play and support a game you think deserves it, so you can get a sequel or other continuation down the line. I've had people tell me it's "marketing's job" to sell a game, not yours, but we live in an age where we wouldn't even get to play some games without fan campaigns to bring them over from Japan and such. Hell, the game I'm playing right now wouldn't be here without the support of the fans, so excuse me if I do take some offense when I hear others be dismissive of a solid, entertaining game and know said opinion will turn people away from the game, lead to worse sales, and in part with others jeopardize the franchise's future. Remember, it's way easier to crap on a game than stand up for one. You can find a reason to throw just about any game under the bus, no matter how good it is. Worrying about a game being overhyped, not clicking as perfectly on a personal level, is your own problem and why people should research games before purchasing them, but hype isn't a bad things. It's all some people will listen to.



  • @Mbun said in Overrated/Underrated JRPGs:

    and it's tough enough simply to get others to play and support a game you think deserves it

    No reason to oversell it. At worst you're trying to trick someone into getting a game they might not like and these people will hardly continue to, as they say, "spread the love". There is nothing noble about trying to trick someone.
    Frankly if you're trying to trick people by overpraising, intentionally misrepresenting or being vague about a game then you have no good reason to get upset if they then think the game is "overrated" later.
    Just be honest about the strengths of the game. Or don't. Personally? I prefer honesty.



  • @suplextrain said:

    No reason to oversell it.

    Yes reason to embellish it! Again, it's 2017, do you know how many games worth playing there are? It's tough enough to get someone to even play the thing you think deserves it without airing all the nitpicky flaws you have with it out in front of them.

    There is nothing noble about trying to trick someone.

    It's not about tricking people, just putting the game's best foot forward, because that's how you get others to play something. Nobody is gonna wanna play a game you spend 30 minutes ranting about all the flaws of.

    Frankly if you're trying to trick people by overpraising, intentionally misrepresenting or being vague about a game

    You're not tricking anybody. You're not overpraising. You're not misrepresenting. You're not being vague. You're pointing out everything good about the game and why you think it deserves the attention. Again, it's up to them to find the flaws that might ruin it for them personally, sour their own experience to a point where they don't enjoy it. That's why everyone should do their own research about a game and not just go on word of mouth, but of course most people are too lazy to do their own research, which is where we get people calling things overrated from most of the time. That's just announcing their own failure.

    Of course some games can genuinely get overrated in the sense that something blows up into a phenomenon that isn't as strong as the buzz surrounding it became, and that's unfortunate, but there's also little you can do to prevent or manage that. Once something hits a certain level, it's gonna peak most people's interest, and no amount of culling people's hype or trying to set realistic expectations is going to contain or control that level of zeitgeist.



  • @Mbun said in Overrated/Underrated JRPGs:

    Yes reason to embellish it! Again, it's 2017, do you know how many games worth playing there are? It's tough enough to get someone to even play the thing you think deserves it without airing all the nitpicky flaws you have with it out in front of them.

    I already told you, if you want to trick/lie to people then be my guest. Just don't get upset if they then consider the game to be overrated because then you'd be the direct cause.

    @Mbun said in Overrated/Underrated JRPGs:

    It's not about tricking people, just putting the game's best foot forward, because that's how you get others to play something.

    Hiding negatives, being vague and generally overselling something is not tricking people? Well ok.
    What's wrong with simply commenting on the strong aspects of the game? If a game has good level design, music and some interesting mechanics then lift that forward as the strong points. If they ask about things like the story, game length or something then be honest. That way people know what to expect. There are some friends I don't even listen to anymore when it comes to games because they were so desperate to get me to buy/play a game which I ended up not liking because they misrepresented it.

    @Mbun said in Overrated/Underrated JRPGs:

    You're not tricking anybody. You're not overpraising. You're not misrepresenting. You're not being vague.

    Whatever you say.

    That's why everyone should do their own research about a game and not just go on word of mouth, but of course most people are too lazy to do their own research

    You could use your own reasoning right back at you. You're being lazy in your description of the game and you intentionally try and sell people on a game by altering the narrative.
    The only reason I check up a lot on games is because I know peopel tend to lie or oversell games they like. I don't even bother asking people for their opinions on a game anymore before buying a game. Why? Because of people like you.
    While yes it is indeed a good idea to do some research on your own before buying something, you're not helping by making their purchases even less educated when they ask you about it. As you said:
    "a solid, entertaining game and know said opinion will turn people away from the game, lead to worse sales, and in part with others jeopardize the franchise's future"
    Is you saying you would intentionally alter the narrative if it would lead to more people buying something you like and think "deserves" it. A selfish outlook if you ask me. Not saying I don't understand why you do it, just that I personally don't agree with and do it. It also feeds into this "overrated" mentality since people will think that your words don't align with reality.
    But you do whatever you want to do.



  • @suplextrain said in Overrated/Underrated JRPGs:

    I already told you, if you want to trick/lie to people then be my guest

    I already told you I'm not tricking or lying to anyone. Not sure why you think raving about the good time you've had with a game counts as that?

    Hiding negatives, being vague and generally overselling

    I'm not hiding or being vague about negatives. If they ask me how something is and it's bad I'll say it's bad, but I don't feel the need to frontload the conversation with it. I'm also not advocating people oversell their experience, just talk about your experience as it was to you. If a game is just alright, say it's just alright, but you getting upset at others calling a game they found fantastic as such when you only find it alright is your own issue, not someone overselling.

    What's wrong with simply commenting on the strong aspects of the game? If a game has good level design, music and some interesting mechanics then lift that forward as the strong points. If they ask about things like the story, game length or something then be honest.

    That's exactly what I'm saying to do.

    You're being lazy in your description of the game and you intentionally try and sell people on a game by altering the narrative.

    Nah. Not even sure where you reached that conclusion.

    I don't even bother asking people for their opinions on a game anymore before buying a game. Why? Because of people like you.
    you're not helping by making their purchases even less educated when they ask you about it.

    Not sure why you've painted me as someone who just calls a game the best thing ever and moves on. I might be vague about some things to avoid spoilers, but I'll at least explain why I am enjoying something so much.

    Is you saying you would intentionally alter the narrative if it would lead to more people buying something you like and think "deserves" it.

    No, I'm saying I'll debunk bullshit I hear people talking about a game I don't feel deserves being dragged through that muck if there's reasons for why a thing is as it is or list other positive points about said game that more than make up for whatever nitpick someone latches onto and tries to use a knock against an otherwise great game. Like hearing people rag on Xenoblade Chronicles 2's dub, I'll offer the knowledge that there's free Japanese Voicepack DLC, so if the dub isn't clicking with you, you can always switch over to the superior voiceacting option. Or when people were whining about weapons breaking in Breath of the Wild, when you're constantly getting new weapons to replace them, and there's an entire strategy around how you utilize your weapon's durability, when you use weaker ones and when you break out the big ones. So while both of those examples are easy things to latch onto and complain about the game for, one offers an alternative option to fix it, and the other is intentionally designed that way for very specific gameplay reasons you'll understand after spending some time with it. Neither should be enough to turn people away from those games as such, so yea I have very little respect for the "Breath of the Wild is so overrated. You finally get a good weapon and then it breaks!" comment when in your own words it is being vague about how the system works with intention to harm people's interest in the game.



  • @Mbun said in Overrated/Underrated JRPGs:

    Doesn't really seem that you have a point, reading what I'm saying or really paying attention to what you yourself is saying, so I'll drop it.

    I'll just clarify one thing since you seem to get really riled up about stuff for the wrong reasons.

    Or when people were whining about weapons breaking in Breath of the Wild, when you're constantly getting new weapons to replace them, and there's an entire strategy around how you utilize your weapon's durability, when you use weaker ones and when you break out the big ones.

    You don't really seem to understand people's complaints. For me BotW has many problems and one of them is precisely the weapon durability system. Not that the weapon breaks, the entire system.
    Having your stuff break isn't fun, it's designed to force you to switch weapons (pretty complex topic that could fill up an entire thread on its own, but generally you should not try to force players to play how you want them to), it's designed so that you should break your weapons on enemies, the UI for all of this is clunky (which is bad when you have to do it so often), etc. etc. etc.
    To me it seems like they initially designed the game without durability but realized that the combat got boring and unlike in many other open world games you didn't really have stuff to pick up (like loot) to make fights and exploration more interesting. Hence why they clumsily implemented the durability system that wasn't even designed with Nintendo's favorite keyword, "fun", in mind. To me durability systems are pretty much bad and should be left out of games entirely. Either they're irrelevant to the point of even having them in the game (as in weapons, armor and such never break and the cost to repair is low) or it's front and center always forcing you to go back and repair, swap equipment out, etc. I can't think of a single game that did it right to the point where it only enhanced and never detracted, that it was well designed and implemented. Yet here comes Nintendo to try their hand at it and does so in one of the worst ways I've seen it in quite some time.
    I'm rambling a bit, but the point I'm making is that you seem to be making kneejerk reactions to people's complaints about a game (which are legit) you like and the result is you getting upset. Again I know there are trolls and shit, but your annoyances don't seem to be exclusive to just them. I mean you called people that don't like the weapon durability system in BotW for "whiners", which in other words means I'm one of those "whiners" as well now despite you making it pretty clear you don't even understand their complaints. In other words you think your view on a game is the right one and to make sure games you like sells that's the image you will present to others.

    But as I said, this discussion with you isn't really going anywhere and I've said my piece. It's way off-topic anyway.



  • @suplextrain said:

    To me durability systems are pretty much bad and should be left out of games entirely.

    That one line shows your bias and pretty much explains why you feel above as listed, but I'll still go into it.

    it's designed to force you to switch weapons

    That's one way to interpret it. Could also just be designed so you use your weapons as a resource and ration them out intelligently to fit your needs. No point in swinging your fancy greatsword at a little jelly monster, just bomb it or switch to some trash weapon to take it out.

    the UI for all of this is clunky

    No, it isn't. You just press D-Pad to quickly swap through them. There's even a sort functionality if you really want to order them most to least powerful for even more convenience. This is what I mean when people say things that simply are inaccurate, which makes me wonder just how long they even played the game. You can play the whole game without ever opening a menu to equip a weapon, because they autoequip when you pick them up too.

    To me it seems etc.

    Really doubt this wild theory of yours. Just seems like you're trying to justify hating it to yourself, but again that line about you hating all weapon durability in any game really shows your bias, so of course you're going to want to turn it into something worse than it is since you'd prefer to demonize the concept of weapon durability and hope no game implements it going forward.

    the point I'm making is that you seem to be making kneejerk reactions to people's complaints about a game (which are legit) you like and the result is you getting upset

    Kneejerk reactions? Nah, I've had plenty time to sit on this and evaluate whether or not it really is a problem or people are just blowing this whole thing out of proportion over their seething hatred of weapon durability systems as you yourself have proven you're a member of the mob against. Upset is a strong word, but I am disappointed people ignore the fun in the way the system works and instead choose to look at it in solely a negative light because big bad weapon durability!

    I like grabbing a spear off a cyclops' belt and then poking him with it. I like doing a spin attack with a big two handed weapon, then charging up a smash to break it over an enemy's head for massive damage. I like the scramble to steal an enemy's weapon at a camp, because you're out of weapons or just want to disarm them before the fight even begins. And you know what? The game showers you in so many weapons if you keep picking stuff up that at some point you get to be picky about exactly which ones you lug around. Hell, there's places on the map notable ones respawn if you really are so sad about losing one to durability over time. Not letting you kill everything in the game with one overpowered sword isn't a problem, and even that it half compromises with the player with in the form of the Master Sword.

    which in other words means I'm one of those "whiners" as well now

    I mean you admitted you hate weapon durability in every game so...

    you don't even understand their complaints

    I understand them. I simply see no value in them. In that wild theory you cooked up, you basically said the game would be worse without the weapon durability system yourself. That says alot. Deep down you know it's good. You just hate weapon durability.

    In other words you think your view on a game is the right one and to make sure games you like sells that's the image you will present to others.

    No, I think my own views are wrong, and I'm just trying to confuse people for the sake of it! Unless you're asking someone their views about a game that's "not for them", like 99% of people are going to say they think their views on a game are the right ones and they'd want the games they like to sell so they can keep playing more like them. You can stop trying to paint me as something malicious already just because we disagree.

    But you're right about how off-topic this has drifted, so guess I'm done too. You seem to have a strong disdain for the concept of hype entirely, ready to jump to vilify others for the heinous crime of beaming to others about the games they're enjoying. I can only guess this is because you've been burnt so many times by recommendations you didn't like as much as others, but hopefully it's taught you to properly research games before purchasing them now, rather than getting angry on the internet about things others are enjoying.



  • To get back on track, it seems relevant to add than I think Breath of the Wild is overrated. Though I think it's understandable why people praised and hyped it up so much. Things like hype and justification got involved and even Damiani got a ton of flak for this BotW score and the complaints he had, which is a pity.



  • @suplextrain said:

    even Damiani got a ton of flak for this BotW score and the complaints he had, which is a pity

    Agree on that, although he did overhype how alarming the framerate was/is. What a dumb example for that to become a meme for when there's been some seriously alarming cases of it in 2017.



  • Late to the party

    Tales of Symphonia, it isn't bad, but it isn't great, mostly just nostalgia goggles

    Earthbound, not bad, but just average, it isn't funny or witty, it's just Mother with a little more flavor due to the SNES' ability compared to the NES

    FF7, it is very good, but it gets put on a pedestal due to it being a lot of people's first jrpg

    Secret of Mana - It's fun to play with a friend, but on your own, nothing special, story is lacking (which a lot of stuff did get cut)