Overrated/Underrated JRPGs



  • If you get taken in by hyperbole, I'd say that's your own fault. The internet is rife with myriad opinions, and if you do your research I'm sure you'll find out whether a game is for you or not. I personally enjoyed the combat systems of NnK and XC, so someone telling me they're "bad" doesn't carry an awful lot of weight when my experience doesn't reflect those opinions.

    This is why I don't think things can be overrated. Is The Last Guardian popular? Yes. Did Huber and Ian dig it? No. That's fine. The people that enjoyed are it are fine for enjoying it. The people that didn't enjoy it are fine for not enjoying it.



  • @SabotageTheTruth for that gen, and that time frame it was a decent amount of games. its pretty good considering at that point games media was declaring japanese games as dying, and in some ways it truly was.



  • @Bigdude1 said in Overrated/Underrated JRPGs:

    like i get that you dont wanna really get into it, but when you just allude to problems without giving a example it's hard to see what your argument is.

    Hm? I need to break down the issues with certain games for you to understand my reasoning for why people think certain games are overrated? I honestly don't care if you agree or disagree with me on game X or Y is "overrated" so I don't see how that's relevant.

    To me It's hard to complain about xenoblade or ni no kuni combat systems when there isn't many other rpgs, western or otherwise that attempt to be as complex nowadays.

    That's frankly a poor argument to make. Especially when there are RPGs that have far better designed combat systems.
    For example last gen (when said games came out) we got Resonance of Fate, several Shin Megami Tensei games (including Persona), Eternal Sonata, Magna Carta 2, The World Ends With You, etc. had solid combat systems while games like Super Robot Taisen OG Saga: Endless Frontier and Radiant Historia put a spin on the more classic JRPG combat . If we're looking at SRPG innovations then Valkyria Chronicles and Codename STEAM are two games that help push the genre forward.
    More recent games have had better JRPG combat as well like Bravely Default and Persona 5.
    Mind you, these are just japanese games as well (which I intentionally limited myself to for the sake of argument, since Xenoblade and NNK are jap games).

    But basically your argument is that we should forgive something bad because many other similar recent games have just as bad combat? That these games somehow exist in a vacuum? Hm, even if that was the case (which the list I posted above disproves) I don't think that's a good stance to take since you're just trying to forgive bad game design at that point.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that you can't like the combat in those games, but they have legit problems that can easily annoy/bore people. Even if you like something you should still be able to acknowledge it. Which, if I circle back to my initial point, is what can cause people to be dissapointed in certain games praised to the high heavens.

    I'm trying to explain why I think people can find things overrated, which I hope you understand.

    @Minamik said in Overrated/Underrated JRPGs:

    The internet is rife with myriad opinions, and if you do your research I'm sure you'll find out whether a game is for you or not.

    But that's beside the point? I tried to explain to you why people can think something can be overrated, which is what you seemed to be confused by.

    I personally enjoyed the combat systems of NnK and XC, so someone telling me they're "bad" doesn't carry an awful lot of weight when my experience doesn't reflect those opinions.

    It's tricky when it comes to games, since the only "objectively" bad things you can honestly bring up are technical problems (like bugs, frame drops, crashes and such). But still you should be able to realize that having a poorly designed UI where you constantly have to jump through several menus to do simple common things isn't something good, even if you're not bothered by it.
    It's about being able to recognize potential issues or design flaws.
    For example, I have a pretty high tolerance towards shitty cameras, but I can still tell if a camera is problematic enough where it could annoy other people. Does my opinion on the game change because of the camera? Most likely not, since I personally tend to not be annoyed by it, but I can still recognize the issues.

    This is why I don't think things can be overrated

    Well you can think whatever you want, but all it takes is for 1 person to think that something is "overrated" and in their mind it is. If they can then support it with strong arguments then they could make a solid case.
    As I tried to explain, a person can feel something is overrated if they think it's rated higher than it should be. As in the praise doesn't align with reality. This typically happens when people make uninformative broad statements.
    For example, people kept saying how Breath of the Wild was "the game of the generation" and how it "did open-world right". But when I looked at it and played it I found that to be a highly deceptive/inaccurate statement. It did in fact abandon some of the series strong points to embrace many of the problems with open-worlds, like quantity over quality design being littered throughout the game (tons of short shitty shrines, tons of korok seeds, tons of repeated content, terrible sidequests, 4 weak dungeons, bad bosses, etc. etc. etc.). So how exactly did it "do open-world right"?
    If I wasn't used to taking the praise Mario and Zelda games get with a fistful of salt I would most likely have been pretty dissapointed in the game.

    Getting upset that people can find things you like to be overrated is very strange to me. I mean just a few posts above you pretty much equated someone finding a game to be overrated to be a personal attack against the person that liked said game more than the other person. To that I say that I feel you're taking this far too personal.
    Again, it basically boils down to people overselling something with vague praise and others then getting dissapointed when the image of something they had doesn't align with reality.
    You can't really fault people for this either if you're amongst the people that keep giving this vague praise where you raise a game to the heavens since then you're a part of the circle.



  • Yeah, I don't think I've got the words to explain properly how I feel about calling something overrated, so we'll just agree to disagree. Now I'm gonna get back to playing vidya games! :)



  • @Minamik said in Overrated/Underrated JRPGs:

    I don't think I've got the words to explain properly how I feel about calling something overrated, so we'll just agree to disagree.

    To clarify, I tried to explain other people's mindset on the matter, not yours. As in to help you understand why people can think something is overrated.
    It's a fact that people can think that something is overrated. Trying to understand the factual reason how someone can think something is overrated is pretty important, especially if you interpret it as a personal attack (when I don't think that is even remotely the case). I think the source of the issue lies in optimism, not in trying to attack something for being "wrong". Thinking that someone is out to get you and you going on the defensive would just create needless conflict where there is none.

    Not trying to berate you or anything here, just saying that I don't think there is any ill intent behind (most people) saying that something is overrated.

    Hope you have fun with whatever game you're playing.



  • @suplextrain .Hack//G.U. lol. As a franchise, it's probably considered overrated. :p



  • @suplextrain
    hmm? i thought i was pretty clear. Complaints about combat system, besides saying it's broken.



  • @suplextrain said:

    especially if you interpret it as a personal attack

    I agree with most of what you're saying, but this is the internet and haters do call stuff overrated as a means of denouncing and turning people away from playing it. Just look at how much stock Kyle? (can't remember exactly who, sorry Kyle if that wasn't you!) puts in when anybody calls a game "meh". It completely kills his drive to try it. Lots of people are like that. They see a popular thing blowing up and are interested, but when a hater says it's overrated they decide to never play it. And you never know if the hater has even played the game, whether they gave it a fair chance if they did, or what their angle in general is.

    Also on the subject of haters, I think back to that guy on GT Live that one time that shat all over some game that's widely loved, think it was FF7. It's not that I don't believe that person and their points, but obviously they're on a crusade against the public perception of that game, otherwise they wouldn't treat their hatred for the game like an event. I can't say whether that particular person was doing it as a cry for attention, a publicity stunt, genuine seething disdain for the game, etc. but I can say they treated it like a modern Atheist treats religion, relishing in thinking their views are better than everyone else's.



  • @Bigdude1 said in Overrated/Underrated JRPGs:

    hmm? i thought i was pretty clear. Complaints about combat system, besides saying it's broken.

    What are you talking about here? What game? Do you want me to break down all the design problems with [insert title] game's combat or something? Why?

    @Mbun said in Overrated/Underrated JRPGs:

    I agree with most of what you're saying, but this is the internet and haters do call stuff overrated as a means of denouncing and turning people away from playing it.

    Which is why I said "(most people)".

    They see a popular thing blowing up and are interested, but when a hater says it's overrated they decide to never play it.

    That's fine. It's up to them to play whatever they want to play and it's not up to us to convince them to give a game a chance, but the people close to them.

    If some people say that X is the best thing ever but then a few people say that it's overrated then clearly the game has things that can drag it down. This paints a more realistic (non-optimistic) view of the game. This is better for anyone going into the game since the chance of them in turn going in and then thinking that the game is overrated isn't as high, since they've lowered their expectations.
    If people instead specified what it is they think is great about the game there would be less confusion and dissapointment from people and thus fewer people saying that something is overrated.
    Even with some of my favorite games of all time like Deus Ex I would still specify point out how it's the possible choices, freedom, music and so on that are the strong points and not just simply say "It's one of the best games I've ever played" or something.

    Sometimes I also think that people are too eager to oversell something in the hopes of trying to get more people to play a game they like. Like they think that if they mention some hiccups or only focus on a few parts they can't get people to try it. So while it's understandable you're still overselling it and if the person then goes into it expecting something being the best thing since sliced bread the chances of them being dissapointed and finding it "overrated" are much higher.

    But generally it's pretty obvious when someone honestly thinks that something is overrated and when someone is just being a contrarian/hater.



  • @suplextrain I just wanted some examples (see first reply) .never mind I stopped caring



  • I don't wanna call it overrated, since it's less that I think it's outright bad or something and more that it's just really not my style, but I can't get behind Earthbound at all. I've tried multiple times and every time something just kinda put me off of it. It's not the gameplay, I think it has some really good or at least interesting ideas and while I never finished Mother 3 when I tried playing that years ago for a host of unrelated reasons I overall enjoyed my experience with that. I couldn't really pin down what it is that I don't like about the game but it might be that it always gave me this impression it was being "quirky" just for the sake of being quirky.



  • It's almost like ratings are subjective so the concept of being overrated is also inherently subjective.



  • To me, I see underrated as "I understand the love" and overrated as "What the hell, I don't get the love at all". To try and account for the fact that these are never "objective" as @Haru17 rightfully points out.

    Overrated: I don't like Xenoblade. At all. Bleh characters. Bleh mechanics. Bleh grinding. Bleh Bleh Bleh.

    Underrated: Cannot think of an underrated JRPG. Could be I surround myself with too many JRPG hobbyists who proclaim every JRPG as the Second Coming of Citizen Kane. I may just have to play more B-tier JRPG's, too. Because I think most of the ones I played receive more than enough praise as is.

    EDIT: In light of the fact I cannot think of a JRPG, I will announce to everybody I hereby consider Danganronpa 1 & 2 to be JRPG's. And by my new, made-up definition of JRPG, I believe they are completely underrated, underplayed, and are, quite possibly, the greatest JRPG's on the planet. drops mic



  • @HeyItsThatChris The correct answer is any rpg from Falcom. :)



  • Xenoblade Chronicles X is the best JRPG of the past decade. I like my JRPGs with no story. Make more like this one!



  • @DeweyDTruman said:

    I can't get behind Earthbound at all

    Earthbound was fun to experience, but as someone who just played it for the first time last year and never looked at the instruction manual, it doesn't hold up to today's standard of giving your players a clear idea of what they should be doing and where they should be going. Got lost many times, but I did manage to clear it without using a guide, so there's that. Still was a great time as someone who had never seen it before.

    @suplextrain Well, it's 2017, and it's tough enough simply to get others to play and support a game you think deserves it, so you can get a sequel or other continuation down the line. I've had people tell me it's "marketing's job" to sell a game, not yours, but we live in an age where we wouldn't even get to play some games without fan campaigns to bring them over from Japan and such. Hell, the game I'm playing right now wouldn't be here without the support of the fans, so excuse me if I do take some offense when I hear others be dismissive of a solid, entertaining game and know said opinion will turn people away from the game, lead to worse sales, and in part with others jeopardize the franchise's future. Remember, it's way easier to crap on a game than stand up for one. You can find a reason to throw just about any game under the bus, no matter how good it is. Worrying about a game being overhyped, not clicking as perfectly on a personal level, is your own problem and why people should research games before purchasing them, but hype isn't a bad things. It's all some people will listen to.



  • @Mbun said in Overrated/Underrated JRPGs:

    and it's tough enough simply to get others to play and support a game you think deserves it

    No reason to oversell it. At worst you're trying to trick someone into getting a game they might not like and these people will hardly continue to, as they say, "spread the love". There is nothing noble about trying to trick someone.
    Frankly if you're trying to trick people by overpraising, intentionally misrepresenting or being vague about a game then you have no good reason to get upset if they then think the game is "overrated" later.
    Just be honest about the strengths of the game. Or don't. Personally? I prefer honesty.



  • @suplextrain said:

    No reason to oversell it.

    Yes reason to embellish it! Again, it's 2017, do you know how many games worth playing there are? It's tough enough to get someone to even play the thing you think deserves it without airing all the nitpicky flaws you have with it out in front of them.

    There is nothing noble about trying to trick someone.

    It's not about tricking people, just putting the game's best foot forward, because that's how you get others to play something. Nobody is gonna wanna play a game you spend 30 minutes ranting about all the flaws of.

    Frankly if you're trying to trick people by overpraising, intentionally misrepresenting or being vague about a game

    You're not tricking anybody. You're not overpraising. You're not misrepresenting. You're not being vague. You're pointing out everything good about the game and why you think it deserves the attention. Again, it's up to them to find the flaws that might ruin it for them personally, sour their own experience to a point where they don't enjoy it. That's why everyone should do their own research about a game and not just go on word of mouth, but of course most people are too lazy to do their own research, which is where we get people calling things overrated from most of the time. That's just announcing their own failure.

    Of course some games can genuinely get overrated in the sense that something blows up into a phenomenon that isn't as strong as the buzz surrounding it became, and that's unfortunate, but there's also little you can do to prevent or manage that. Once something hits a certain level, it's gonna peak most people's interest, and no amount of culling people's hype or trying to set realistic expectations is going to contain or control that level of zeitgeist.



  • @Mbun said in Overrated/Underrated JRPGs:

    Yes reason to embellish it! Again, it's 2017, do you know how many games worth playing there are? It's tough enough to get someone to even play the thing you think deserves it without airing all the nitpicky flaws you have with it out in front of them.

    I already told you, if you want to trick/lie to people then be my guest. Just don't get upset if they then consider the game to be overrated because then you'd be the direct cause.

    @Mbun said in Overrated/Underrated JRPGs:

    It's not about tricking people, just putting the game's best foot forward, because that's how you get others to play something.

    Hiding negatives, being vague and generally overselling something is not tricking people? Well ok.
    What's wrong with simply commenting on the strong aspects of the game? If a game has good level design, music and some interesting mechanics then lift that forward as the strong points. If they ask about things like the story, game length or something then be honest. That way people know what to expect. There are some friends I don't even listen to anymore when it comes to games because they were so desperate to get me to buy/play a game which I ended up not liking because they misrepresented it.

    @Mbun said in Overrated/Underrated JRPGs:

    You're not tricking anybody. You're not overpraising. You're not misrepresenting. You're not being vague.

    Whatever you say.

    That's why everyone should do their own research about a game and not just go on word of mouth, but of course most people are too lazy to do their own research

    You could use your own reasoning right back at you. You're being lazy in your description of the game and you intentionally try and sell people on a game by altering the narrative.
    The only reason I check up a lot on games is because I know peopel tend to lie or oversell games they like. I don't even bother asking people for their opinions on a game anymore before buying a game. Why? Because of people like you.
    While yes it is indeed a good idea to do some research on your own before buying something, you're not helping by making their purchases even less educated when they ask you about it. As you said:
    "a solid, entertaining game and know said opinion will turn people away from the game, lead to worse sales, and in part with others jeopardize the franchise's future"
    Is you saying you would intentionally alter the narrative if it would lead to more people buying something you like and think "deserves" it. A selfish outlook if you ask me. Not saying I don't understand why you do it, just that I personally don't agree with and do it. It also feeds into this "overrated" mentality since people will think that your words don't align with reality.
    But you do whatever you want to do.



  • @suplextrain said in Overrated/Underrated JRPGs:

    I already told you, if you want to trick/lie to people then be my guest

    I already told you I'm not tricking or lying to anyone. Not sure why you think raving about the good time you've had with a game counts as that?

    Hiding negatives, being vague and generally overselling

    I'm not hiding or being vague about negatives. If they ask me how something is and it's bad I'll say it's bad, but I don't feel the need to frontload the conversation with it. I'm also not advocating people oversell their experience, just talk about your experience as it was to you. If a game is just alright, say it's just alright, but you getting upset at others calling a game they found fantastic as such when you only find it alright is your own issue, not someone overselling.

    What's wrong with simply commenting on the strong aspects of the game? If a game has good level design, music and some interesting mechanics then lift that forward as the strong points. If they ask about things like the story, game length or something then be honest.

    That's exactly what I'm saying to do.

    You're being lazy in your description of the game and you intentionally try and sell people on a game by altering the narrative.

    Nah. Not even sure where you reached that conclusion.

    I don't even bother asking people for their opinions on a game anymore before buying a game. Why? Because of people like you.
    you're not helping by making their purchases even less educated when they ask you about it.

    Not sure why you've painted me as someone who just calls a game the best thing ever and moves on. I might be vague about some things to avoid spoilers, but I'll at least explain why I am enjoying something so much.

    Is you saying you would intentionally alter the narrative if it would lead to more people buying something you like and think "deserves" it.

    No, I'm saying I'll debunk bullshit I hear people talking about a game I don't feel deserves being dragged through that muck if there's reasons for why a thing is as it is or list other positive points about said game that more than make up for whatever nitpick someone latches onto and tries to use a knock against an otherwise great game. Like hearing people rag on Xenoblade Chronicles 2's dub, I'll offer the knowledge that there's free Japanese Voicepack DLC, so if the dub isn't clicking with you, you can always switch over to the superior voiceacting option. Or when people were whining about weapons breaking in Breath of the Wild, when you're constantly getting new weapons to replace them, and there's an entire strategy around how you utilize your weapon's durability, when you use weaker ones and when you break out the big ones. So while both of those examples are easy things to latch onto and complain about the game for, one offers an alternative option to fix it, and the other is intentionally designed that way for very specific gameplay reasons you'll understand after spending some time with it. Neither should be enough to turn people away from those games as such, so yea I have very little respect for the "Breath of the Wild is so overrated. You finally get a good weapon and then it breaks!" comment when in your own words it is being vague about how the system works with intention to harm people's interest in the game.