Brandon on Fireside chats with Colin Moriarty

  • Was listening to the fireside chat with Brandon and Colin Moriarty, and Colin brought up that it was unfair of the criticism brought to Brandon over it. So I went to Twitter and saw some somewhat tense criticism thrown his way over it. Why?

    I don't think Colin has ever said anything too scathing or mean, I know that's subjective so don't flame me for that and was genuinely excited when I saw Brandon on the podcast. Is there a general disdain for Collin among the community? If you don't like Colin did you listen to the podcast? I think if you were against Brandon going on the podcast you should give it a listen, it was a good show.

  • I don't think Colin has ever gone an hour without calling a group of people morons, saying his hometown has better food than the entire western seaboard, or something along those lines. Given that, I'd be surprised if there wasn't rebuke.

  • Here it is btw. They actually talk a lot about EZA and GT.

    Honestly I had no idea who he was before all of this happened. Regardless of what you think of him, the stance that some people took was childish to say the least. I can't tell them what to do with their money obviously, but threatening like that was truly disappointing from a community that spreads Love & Respect.

  • @Haru17 I feel like a lot of those comments could be taken out of context, or are just jokes entirely and nothing to get too upset about, at least not to the extent I saw on Twitter. Instead of letting Brandon be a spokesperson for the community people took a "if you're with him then you're against us" type attitude. It was childish to say the least.

  • @JamboHyland95 No, it's more that he's an insufferable egotist who tows the conservative/libertarian/tar and feathering faction line in whatever random context he's allowed in. I only started watching a few Kinda Funny videos after he got booted for mocking the women's march / protest like a true sexist.

    I could really care less about the specific conversations that were had. It seems you'd rather admonish the community for disliking a person who dislikes big groups of people though, so I wonder how neutral you really are in this.

  • @Haru17 I'm not gonna debate his antics on what he did or didn't do, but do you think Brandon should have gone on the podcast or not? I feel like going on the podcast may give people who don't like him maybe a sliver of a chance to change their minds, or the ability to just ignore it and not listen at all (it's not like it was promoted by eza or anything so if you didn't like Colins content and weren't on Twitter you'd be none the wiser) while still giving fans that love both parties some good content.

  • @Dario I think a lot of people don't understand that "love and respect" is both two way street and that it applies to people you disagree with just as much, if not more, than people you already love and respect to begin with.

    I've never kept up with Colin before, whether it be at IGN or Kinda Funny or his own new thing, but after seeing the reaction he got on Twitter for wanting Brandon on his podcast I checked out his new side channel for video game content and enjoyed the videos (all two of them admittedly) enough to subscribe. I may not agree with him on some stances, but that's being human. There's 7 billion people out there, I don't agree with at least 6.9 billion of them on some if not most stances. You just gotta try to find that middle ground. And if there is none, you gotta try to at least respect the other person's right to be themselves (as long as they aren't breaking any kind of laws obviously.)

  • I was pretty disappointed in the way the community lashed out at Brandon for agreeing to appear on Colin's show. I wasn't seeing much L&R being demonstrated. Even though its more difficult to live those words when faced with someone you don't agree with, I think that's also when its most important to do so.

    Before the whole controversy I only knew Colin's name from his IGN days. I've been following his new content since then and have honestly been enjoying his opinions, even though I don't agree with his more conservative leanings.

  • @DeweyDTruman said in Brandon on Fireside chats with Colin Moriarty:

    @Dario I think a lot of people don't understand that "love and respect" is both two way street and that it applies to people you disagree with just as much, if not more, than people you already love and respect to begin with.

    There's 7 billion people out there, I don't agree with at least 6.9 billion of them on some if not most stances.

    Agree with your first statement above. Also wanted to point out how absurd your second one is.

    Now to the main topic,

    I watched Colin and Greg since IGN. As the years went by Colin became more and more insufferable to the point i dropped kinda funny. I'm not one of those ppl who cares about his politics but it's his attitude. He's a smart guy and honestly HAD some great arguments, at times... after ign he only became more complacent in his perception that he's a know it all professional in the industry. He would often regurgitate the same old tired arguments he's been spouting off for years while constantly being convinced he's right even when he clearly isn't. The industry left him behind becsuse he felt no need to grow with it. This only became clearer as time went by before finally leaving kinda funny. He's the epitome of a tired old miserable man yelling at the clouds.

    I can only imagine his recent push to talk about games again is because ppl havnt been as interested in his new endeavours. I don't know, I don't follow him. And when I did I had nothing but bullshit negative and sarcastic comments to ppl or in general filling up the Twitter feed.

    Do I care an EZA member was on there? Not at all, who cares. Doesn't affect me at all. Maybe Colin is a better person behind the spotlight. The allies should be able to do as they please. If your perception of any of the allies changes so quickly because of such things, then maybe you should evaluate the kind of person you are. Would hate to be your friend.

  • @Haru17 I didn't see your last paragraph so I'll reply here, I'm not neutral, I enjoy both parties quite a lot. I don't agree with everything 100% said on either side, but to be honest I don't have the bandwidth to get that outraged over anything anyone online says that I don't agree with. I'm frankly jealous of people who are.

  • @CGamor7 said in Brandon on Fireside chats with Colin Moriarty:

    Also wanted to point out how absurd your second one is.

    I was trying to go for a thing about how everyone isn't literally me and those "stances" could be as simple and meaningless as "Hey I don't like Sonic Adventure" or as big as political/religious beliefs but I was just rambling at that point admittedly. The important bit is the whole "trying to respect people's right to their opinion" thing.

  • This situation is a lot more complex than people give it credit for. Frankly, it was mishandled and that is becoming a recurring theme in EZA drama and causing fractures in the community.

    I think one thing people forgot with the discourse is that Brandon ASKED for feedback about it. He knew it would be controversial, or at least saw the negative reactions on YT during Cup of Jones, and requested the community to send in their opinions. The people who thought it was a bad idea are being treated like they expressed their concerns unprompted or are trying to be controlling. Brandon ASKED for opinions, the feedback was not unsolicited.

    For me it boils down to the fact that Colin is incredibly abrasive. He claims to be accepting and all that but when it comes to actually talking to members of the groups he claims to accept, and having them point out that things he has said are downright offensive, or could be taken that way, he will double down, tell them he knows better than they do, and then act smug about it. The whole "Day Without Women" tweet exemplifies this. After the backlash, over what he claimed was a joke, he printed out and framed the tweet. He is proud of upsetting people and has shown time and time again that he won't take the feelings of the people he hurts into consideration.

    I'm personally not upset that Jones did the show, that is his prerogative, and interacting with people we may not fundamentally agree with is just a fact of life. That said, I get why other people had a much more severe reaction. There are community members who get a lot of flack and harassment from the not so nice EZA "fans", you know the same ones who write awful things about the 9 and especially Ian and Damiani. These fans were afraid of being opened to more of that harassment through this collaboration. Guess what? They got harassed more, when the discussion was brought to Twitter. Aside from fans pulling Colin into the discussion, one of his fans decided to write an article about the situation and grabbed tweets from the EZA fans who were more outspoken with their distaste, which got them harassed more by Colin's fans. Colin himself screengrabbed a deleted tweet, from someone with around 20 followers, which said nothing inflammatory against him it simply expressed concern that this collaboration would open the community to more toxicity, but the poster said the magic word "Resetera" which was enough for Colin to paint a target on his back. Colin retweeted the guy and then posted the screengrab to his 160k+ followers and obviously that didn't go great. I'm hesitant to share the post, because the person involved already got enough harassment over it, but the tweet is still on Colin's Twitter if you care to find it and judge for yourself. Colin has continued to target EZA fans, especially those on Resetera, who don't have a favorable opinion of him.

    All in all, the fears these EZA fans expressed came true, before the collaboration even happened, and then they felt doubly betrayed by the decision of Jones to do the show. I get why they're upset. The people who were hit hardest by attacks were for the most part well spoken and had concrete examples of things that they found troubling. When confronted with Colin they engaged him as best they could and even conceded that some things they brought to the table were just examples of Colin poorly wording his thoughts that allowed them to be easily misconstrued. To all this Colin said "Maybe you're the problem?"

    So I get why people were upset, continue to be upset, and will probably take this event into consideration for a long while. Jones mishandled this situation, not in his decision to do the show, but to open it to discussion and to then take the discussion public with a vague tweet that caused confusion and exacerbated an already heated situation.

  • @DeweyDTruman fair enough, well now I feel bad. Absurd wasn't a good word to use. I just had to defend those 6.9 billion ppl saying "what did we do!?" Lol.

    @logic__error I don't even know where to begin after reading your post... I just sigh for all the ppl that get harassed by Colin. There are always legitimate ppl that should be called out for their actions, but Colin has a habit of picking and choosing ppl he can easily flog publicly. Your right, he takes pride in pissing ppl off. I can imagine in his position he has to deal with a lot of shityy behaviour, but that guy has tons of openly shitty behaviour too.

    In my opinion this shouldn't have even been an open discussion with fans. If you have to ask ppl for approval you know what your doing isn't a good idea. Didn't know any of that. Sounds mishandled. I feel bad for the ppl having to deal with more of colins abuse.

    The guy needs to see himself out of the industry. Please and thank you.

  • @CGamor7 Yeah, I've been trying to put together a comment for next weeks CoJ because this really got out of hand. It never should have gotten to this point. I understand why Brandon brought it to the community but it would have been better if he hadn't because there was obviously not going to be agreement over this decision and any potential fans he gained from doing the podcast are now coming in with a chip on their shoulder towards the EZA community. "Crazies" "Nutjobs" "Lunatics" "Insane" "Haters" "Morons" "Toxic" "Unreasonable" "Nasty" "Divisive" "Idiot Authoritarians" are all things that have been said about the community as a part, or as a whole, in the comments on the Twitter post for the podcast.

    And honestly, things probably would have been WORSE if Jones decided to back away from this. That is why putting it up for discussion was a risk and making it a public issue on Twitter was a gigantic mistake. There was no way for this not to be a total disaster for the community.

  • Ok, I listened to the whole thing, it was actually fun for the most part, they pretty much talked exclusively about EZA, Patreon, the communities and whatnot.

    Then at the end they addressed the issue at hand, and my perception of the guy completely changed. Even if he's not a racist/homophobic/whatever, it was a pain to hear his reasoning. Basically "if my intention wasn't to offend you, then it's your problem if you're offended". Wow, really? What kind of adult says shit like that? Do you know what empathy is? And now that I'm learning more about the stuff he's said and done, I can't really say much for him.

    That said, I stand by these words: you don't put out the fire with more fire. That's what love and respect are all about.

    Kudos to Brandon for not backing down on his decision. Even if his response wasn't what many expected of him, from what I could tell he's learning a lot from this and will continue to do so.

  • If I'm completely honest I think this whole thing is beyond silly. Brandon should be allowed to talk to whoever he wants. Even if the person you're talking too is pretty extreme that still isn't a reason to tell someone not to talk to them. Discussing things is what helps us grow as people.
    Telling someone that they should not be speaking to someone you don't approve of is extreme close-minded behaviour. It just remings of things like how an extremist muslim family didn't allow their daughter to speak to non-muslim boys her age.

    Because despite all the shittalking back and forth, the core problem is with the people telling Brandon not to speak to Colin. Especially the ones resorting to threats like removing their patreon support if he talks to Colin.
    I'm not talking about the people that thought the videogame related discussion wouldn't be interesting here, because that's actually relevant. But then it'd still be up to Brandon. Even if you got upset by Brandon talking to Colin that'd be fine (even if I think you really should sort those emotions out) so long as you didn't try and tell Brandon what to do.

    @Dario said in Brandon on Fireside chats with Colin Moriarty:

    Basically "if my intention wasn't to offend you, then it's your problem if you're offended". Wow, really? What kind of adult says shit like that? Do you know what empathy is? And now that I'm learning more about the stuff he's said and done, I can't really say much for him.

    While I don't really agree with what he said there (if I'm taking it literally and out of context and assuming he worded it precisely as he intended) I think he has a point.

    Someone else worded it well, so I'm gonna copypaste their words:
    Neurolinguist Robert Anton Wilson gave a lecture wherein he address content vs context.
    Basically, how people can say hateful/stupid things, but if they avoid offensive words, they get away with it, while someone else could have a neutral/friendly comment, but use the wrong word, and it becomes offensive. He used the example: "San Francisco has become a Mecca for homosexual migration" vs "San Francisco is full of fags".

    The first has no bad words, but implies homosexuals are migratory creatures, and links them with Islam- a link neither group would appreciate. The second uses the wrong word, but is otherwise just factual. I've heard other great examples of this concept, and a recent was one "As a CIS white male, I believe our gender-normative relationships deserve more consideration than others, as we are able to procreate" vs "Let fags marry; what's the problem?
    Are you afraid that you might be queer, and its too much temptation?" The first is actually against gay marriage, but avoids buzz words that are deemed offensive, and actually goes out of the way to use the "appropriate" words. The second again uses bad words, but is actually in support of gay marriage. The particular words do not make it hatespeech in my mind- it is the context/meaning behind the words.
    Living in the South, I know a few open-minded red-necks, who use words now deemed offensive, but are generally supportive of the groups that those words are meant to target.
    They might call Obama "colored", but in the context of praising him. They might say "queer", but they genuinely support gay equality. I get what they are trying to say, even if they are not quite as eloquent as others. And all too often, those who are good with language use it to disguise their hateful intent. Context over content, people- don't be fooled.

    In other words, if someone didn't intend to offend someone and possibly worded it in a certain way then people should take that into consideration before lashing out. People tend to fixate too much on how people say something over what they say. So you should question if said person actually intended to be offensive before you accuse someone of being a racist, misogynist or whatever and attack them for it.
    So while you should sometimes take an extra moment yourself to consider what you're saying in a given situation (containing certain kinds of people), it's also up to the "offended" party to consider if the "offender" actually intended to be offensive. Too many people make kneejerk reactions and jump to conclusions.

    Of course I could be wrong and he could very well have meant that he should be allowed to say whatever he wants and fuck the people that get upset by what he says. But even so he still has a point. He is free to say whatever he wants... but he also needs to accept the consequences of his words.

    Beyond what I've said I really don't feel that there is anything more to say on the matter, because really at this point what should be done? In my mind you should just bury it and move on.

  • For better or worse there was nothing wrong with the show, I think Colin had many valid points. Like him or not a lot of what people complained about in the past week would not have happened if people had taken a step back and instead of lashing out at brandon about Colin saying the things that they were saying it wouldn't have behooved him to defend his reputation. Regardless of how you see his reputation.

    I don't care in the slightest, I wanted to hear what brandon had to discuss. But back to a point Colin had made there's a pretty big difference in HOW people say things versus WHAT they said on top of the nomenclature that was applied to it.

    How many examples have we had in just the last few months where Brandon didn't intend to make anyone upset and it happened anyway? This is mostly why I advocate not getting involved in sensitive subjects because there will ALWAYS be an offended party, whether that was the intent or not. It's not worth inviting the problem to have a place to roost in the first place.

    If you really expect anyone to be perfect with everything they say at all're dreaming, even as I write this I fully expect someone to say something negative in response, there's virtually no way to please everyone. Which in turn is a lesson I suppose EZA needs to learn as well.

    If we were to judge every person based off their past mistakes we would likely all be monsters to some degree, in fact that's why stereotypes are so dangerous when applied to specific races or genders, or whatever, because you're trying to apply those misconceptions on others for the mistakes of a few. I'm not saying that excuses anyone's actions, but how long do you expect a person to be defamed, harassed, etc for a negative off hand comment or poorly worded/timed Joke? Even when they haven't done anything wrong presently?

    I don't mean that in just the context of Colin either, I mean ANYONE. Take the 90s or early 2000s for an example, sexist jokes, racist jokes, sexual orientation jokes were everywhere, in our culture, in the media, on merchandise. Does that mean the enjoyment or indifference to this means that everyone past a certain age from those time periods are now Sexist and Racist?

    Like in current year I don't think it's right to ruin someone's career for a racial epithet they used 20-30 years ago, that's a ridiculous notion. There's no burden of proof, let's just harass them to hell and back purely on the accusation. Are they the person that used that word now? How do you even know?

    I don't pretend to know what sort of person Colin is, and I don't care. But this whole thought process people have had is quite toxic and unproductive, how long till an ally makes such a mistake? Are you going to turn on them the same way? If that's all it takes to change your opinion of someone...why are you even here? Nobody is perfect, expecting it out of someone never works out.

    That's all I personally have to say about it, I'll be glad when the topic is dead and buried. You can dislike someone all you want, but sometimes you really should keep it to yourself. Brandon even admitted as such if you were listening. If you don't like someone, don't engage them. You could easily tell Brandon you're not ok with him working with Colin, but again context vs content you didn't need to turn it into a confrontation publicly and then somehow expect nobody to respond or defend themselves in response.

    It was Brandon's fault asking for feedback in response to the idea of working with Colin in any capacity, and that's what happened. But the way people went about it was clearly NOT ok and you're (The EZA community) the bearer of the results that came from it, not Colin or his community.

    Take it how you will, I really don't care anymore. I'm really exhausted by most of this, nothing feels very love and respecty. You don't have to love everyone but for all the people who keep throwing the word "Empathy" around I'm not seeing very much of it from them either.

    I'm glad Brandon went through with it even if nothing ever comes from it, he should feel like it's ok to try and grow the EZA brand and this community however he wants. Just as you're free to leave in response to any of his actions.

    • Footnote- Since people regularly get hung up on this I'll make it clear now that when I say "You" it's largely in the collective sense, since I don't have a specific person in mind.

  • "The giant ball of hate from The Fifth Element can say whatever he wants and you can't say you don't like him because that would be mean. That's written in first amendment: 'You the people can say what you want, but you can't be mean if it's a celebrity I like.' "

  • @Haru17 said in Brandon on Fireside chats with Colin Moriarty:

    "The giant ball of hate from The Fifth Element can say whatever he wants and you can't say you don't like him because that would be mean. That's written in first amendment: 'You the people can say what you want, but you can't be mean if it's a celebrity I like.' "

    Not sure who that's directed at, but to spear that ahead of time I don't like Colin. Period. I've made that clear everywhere I've been.

    So if it's indeed directed at me I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, treat people who you seek to be treated. It doesn't matter what he does, the minute you stoop to his level you lose all moral superiority and sympathy from me, it doesn't matter if you think you're right or not.

    If you mean someone else, point still stands. I'm sick of people thinking their vendettas are justified if someone else said something nasty first. It's wrong, always. Defend yourself when the situation calls for it, but this whole drama does not qualify as self-defense.

    At this point it'd be the same as me having a tweet about anybody from this community but as long as I'm not tagging you in it then "I'm not hurting or attacking them". That logic is flawed so seriously I actually worry about people who feel that way.

  • @ZyloWolfBane said in Brandon on Fireside chats with Colin Moriarty:

    At this point it'd be the same as me having a tweet about anybody from this community but as long as I'm not tagging you in it then "I'm not hurting or attacking them". That logic is flawed so seriously I actually worry about people who feel that way.

    That first sentence is so flawed I can't even understand it after reading it five times. But really, if you're talking about gaps in logic then we have some reviewing to do. In your post you argued;

    • Systemic racism/sexism is not racism/sexism and is permissible.

    • People don't have the "right to ruin someone's career," whatever that means.

    • People shouldn't criticize things or people even if they're harmful.

    I'm just gonna go ahead and assume that either I misunderstood or was mislead by your post in some ways, as apparently that defense of Colin was not meant in support of him. Whatever. Still, it makes no sense to go around telling people to pipe down when they're criticizing public personalities for things they've gone on the record and said.

    People like Colin have elected to shape their public lives toward entertainment. As we've establish people have a right to expression and a right to define for themselves what they find entertaining or objectionable. People do not have such a right that says they cannot be criticized for their expression.

    So, while at a basic level it's your right to reprimand the community, you're doing it because they spoke up: taking issue with the same right you're exercising to even type those words. You also seem to be under the impression that the community committed some grave unspoken wrongdoing. Please explain how everyone calling Colin out was any different from your own objections. Otherwise, I have no other way to see your objections than as simple hypocrisy.