Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS!)

  • Star Wars Episode VIII had its opening in (parts of?) Europe today on December 13th, and will have its opening in the United States on December 15th. I saw the film and decided to open a thread for it for discussion, as it's a huge global phenomenon. And because of the nature of the whole space saga, it just makes much more sense to talk about things clearly as they are, so FULL SPOILERS ahead.

    The movie left me conflicted. There were a lot of good things in it that I enjoyed, but sadly a bit more things that didn't really work for me. Therefore the experience was somewhat of a dissapointment. It's not garbage or anything like that, things aren't black and white, either/or, as there's lots to like, but the film as a whole did leave me wanting for something else. I'd say I liked maybe 40 % of it and didn't really care for 60 % of it.

    The three clear positives and stars were Rey, Kylo Ren and Luke. I enjoyed practically every scene that these three were in somehow. Their stories were the most interesting and made me want to see and know more. Also the actors were the best of the bunch, I feel. That whole island era was what saved the first half of the movie. Also the connection between Rey and Kylo felt right and their relationship got developed.

    Speaking of which, one of the best scenes/scenarios in the film, if not the best, happened in "the Red Room". The scene with Rey, Kylo and Snoke. The fact that Snoke got killed came as a huge surprise and it gave life to the whole movie. However, the best part came after the neat fight sequence, when Kylo gave his speech of leaving all this old shit behind, no more sith or jedi, and offered Rey a chance to practically rule the world together with him. I reeeally liked that whole moment. I was like where is this leading to, are they gonna do it?? Well... no, they didn't, and sure, I get why. That would've been so something else entirely for a Star Wars film.

    Luke was really good in this as well. Meaning Hamill was. And oh boy, that final scene of his. That's how you do it. Absolutely beautiful.

    About the negative aspects, then. That whole damn casino plotline, from start to finish. It made no sense, felt super pointless and just boring, and was just there to make Finn look busy, basically to give him something to do in the entire film. And it ultimately served no purpose, because they just got screwed anyway etc. And Rose was a really boring character, sorry to say. I gave her a fair chance, but it didn't lead to anything. And just in general that whole casino place made me think about some Harry Potter movies with the way everything looked in there. The stupid big animals felt like some magic creatures and the players at the casino were like those bankers from HP, gnomes or imps or what's the right word. Super dull sideplot which I did not care at all.

    Also the whole weird slow space chase felt pointless for the film as well, with the rebels and the First Order. At one point I was like "This is it? That's your whole thing in the movie? You've been moving very slowly together there now for like an hour and a half." It just felt like too little, too small-scale of a thing. Sure, the stakes were high, but it didn't feel like it, just pretty boring after a time.

    The salt planet didn't feel like a very natural addition to the story, which in itself wasn't too well put together either. I don't know. Nothing came as close to the Red Room intensity anymore after the happening in there, and at that point almost half of the movie was still left. Luckily we did get that Kylo and Luke fight, which was a plus sign, but other than that there wasn't anything too worthy to remember. Except for the light-speed suicide collision a little earlier, which did look pretty freaking amazing.

    So yeah. Those are maybe my main points from the film, both good and bad. It wasn't as good as I would've liked it to be, but the good things were still very enjoyable. Now I'm hoping that they double down on Rey and Kylo's relationship in Episode IX, put the focus really on those two, so there's a chance to turn this on the plus side again with the finale.

    Oh, and the truth about Rey's parents felt right. No "remember her from back then? that's the mom" scenarios.

  • @Sentinel-Beach Just finished watching it myself and I agree with a lot of what you said. I didn't dislike the movie by any means, but I definitely didn't feel a swell of excitement walking out of the theater.

    The island scenes were some of the best, especially with Rey exploring that hole/cave. I loved how trippy and surreal the visuals became and how she wasn't just handed the answers she was looking for. Yoda being thrown in felt super unnecessary and while I found the telepathic communication between Rey and Kilo initially a little cheesy, I actually started to like how that was shown.

    The scene you mentioned in the red room? Pure gold. So good on so many levels. I was worried Kylo would turn full "good guy" but nope... he's just taking a different path.

    Also, not something you mentioned, but I loved Benecio del Toro's character. His strange mannerisms may be distracting to some, but he had some of the best lines in the film. Aside from Rogue One, we almost always show the Rebellion as good guys, always and forever... but in war, there's very rarely a purely "good" side, sacrifices have to be made. His character really highlighted that and I hope we see more of him in the future.

    The absolute worst part of this movie is Carrie Fisher. No disrespect to the dead but her scenes... are stiff. Not to mention, she survives an explosion, survives being knocked unconscious in the vastness of space, is able to fly through space, and can blow open doors now.... Why was she suddenly given all these magical powers? She's always been Force-sensitive, but this movie has her brush past death with ease... twice.

    Also, Captain Phasma finally gets a scene to be a badass and... then kill her?! Ugh. It just feels like such a wasted opportunity to me.

    Overall, I dunno. Maybe it's franchise fatigue but this movie just didn't stun me. I love Rian Johnson and maybe that heightened my expectations - along with people hoping it would become the next 'Empire'. There's some nice visuals, some good lines, and the action is decent... but I'm really starting to think it's going to take a very different Star Wars movie to make an impression on me anymore. Disney, let Taiki Waititi take a crack at the franchise, that man makes miracles.

  • Mr problem with episode 8 was in answered 0 questions, who are Reys parents no one, who's snoke who cares. The plot was absent in the entire movie, rey learnt nothing so it looks like ghost luke is going to teach her. Ben solo's intentions just look like he's just doing the opposite of what people want. The order doesn't mean anything. General Akbers deatg

    There were positives but the one I want to bring up is when Leia used her powers in space was an awesome moment. Luke showcasing his strength as a Jedi was great but I still feel disappointed in his death. Loved Kylo not shooting at his mum.

  • I think the movie is kinda cool while watching it, but doesn't hold up as soon as you give it an ounce of critical thought.

    As others said, the movie answers 0 questions and at the end of it, you have barely progressed from the end of VII

    The main thing that really bothered me was the constant jokes. Like, sure put a few light touches on it but not every single scene needs to have a cracker in there.

    The biggest offense is the re-introduction of General Hux, I thought I was watching a Spaceballs movie for a full minute.
    I'm not sure how you take a character that killed MILLIONS of people in the previous move (by destroying several planets) and turn him into a complete stooge in the next movie.

    Ugh, I think I rather stop thinking about this movie tbh


    The movie confirmed for me my theory I have held since VII that Rey is a Skywalker clone.
    (Based off Luke's missing hand)

    There was a very specific cinematic focus on Luke's missing hand in VII (And since they have his old Lightsaber, it's safe to assume they also found the hand still holding it)

    My clone theory holds up through this movie because when Rey checks out the "Mirror of Desire" she asks for her parents, but only sees several copies of herself (Including a LOT of deliberate hand waving)

    Anyway, it's a decent watch, but it won't hold up i'm afraid

  • @TheHashtag0nist I'm really bummed Hux didn't curse at all. I just want Brad to be happy.

    And I gotta say, your clone theory probably makes the most sense from everything that I've heard so far.

  • @TheHashtag0nist That theory is so good that it needs spoiler tags
    They even drop her off on a desert planet, doesn't know her parents but Luke had his uncle owen.

  • @ib0show

    I might do a whole article on this theory, this is really just the cliffnotes version

  • Luke's hand gets chopped off 3ABY, Rey is born 15ABY. So they had Luke's hand on ice for 12 years just in case? Did Maz find the hand and say "Yeah this might be useful sometime" and keep it around? What's the motivation in cloning a random hand, or was the story of Luke's duel widespread enough that whoever found the lightsaber knew it was the hand of a great jedi?

    Master Sifo-Dyas at least had the ability to see into the future and know the Republic would need an army, but I'm not sure of the motivation of someone cloning a hand that held a lightsaber.

    The cinematography aspect of the theory is strong, but iirc there were two figures that combined into one during that mirror sequence.

    If you do write an entire article about that theory please do post it, would be a fascinating read.

  • @Ehie-Yovach The hand cloning story is actually a whole book in the EU where Vader retrieves the hand to start a Jedi cloning program

  • Damn that hand cloning theory is really strong. I really enjoyed the movie for what it was, but it was weirdly eager to ignore almost every loose plot point from 7. Any type of critical thought makes me kinda annoyed at this movie..... I still enjoyed it.

  • @TheHashtag0nist Even better to hold up the theory, the original opening for Ep VII was of Luke's severed hand floating in space, only to land on Jakku.

  • As far as my own opinion on the whole thing, it needed some editing and consistency with dialogue (ie, the zingers). The beginning had too much "tell don't show" and in the end, it felt like a lot of the brushing off of certain plot elements was because no one could make up their mind, yet, and they want to cover certain things later (Ep IX).

  • I liked the movie fine. Empire > A New Hope > The Las Jedi > Rogue One > The Force Awakens > Revenge of the Sith > Return of the Jedi > Attack of the Clones > Christmas Special > Phantom Menace

    Come at me bro

  • @TokyoSlim I will! Rogue One was a mess! There! You are come-at-ed! But that's ok, I'm glad you and so many others enjoyed it, and this thread is about TLJ. :D

  • @Sazime not disputing it was a mess, just ranking it among the other movies. :)

  • I didn't have many issues with the 'Star Wars' as I did with the movie itself.. if that makes sense. I liked what they did with the characters for the most part and thought a lot of the performances and set pieces were great. I may be the minority but I loved that Rey's parents were not important.. its exactly what I wanted and I feel like her being related to anyone we know would just come off as cheap. I love the relationship between her and Kylo as well and find Kylo in particular to be one of the most interesting characters we've seen so far in the series. The scenes between the two of them were some of the best in the movie for me. I also liked some of the new additions.. the bombing run was great. It seemed like it was pulled right out of 12 o'clock High or something, in true Star Wars fashion.

    On the other hand, I think this movie was wayyy too long and could have used some serious trimming. A lot of the humor didn't land for me and in many cases destroyed any tension that the scene had built up. Luke tossing the lightsaber ruined two years of tension since the last movie ended. There were some weird writing choices that pulled me out.. Luke saying "laser sword" is an example of that. I was really sad to see Luke go.. I was ok with his character choice of isolating himself, but he never really got to redeem himself. It also seems weird that they would kill Luke and not Leia since they'll have to figure that out in the next one. I can't believe they got the original cast back to just kill them all off. Honestly, she probably should have died instead of that god awful flying through space thing.. it would have added a lot of emotional weight to the rest of the film. Finally, I despised Rose saving Finn.. it ruined what would have been a great moment in my opinion (and as far as she knew totally screwed over the whole Rebellion). Kind of like Finn, I was so prepared for his death that I couldn't give less of a shit about the kiss after. The deaths of Leia and Finn would have been great for Rose, Luke and Rey's characters and given them a reason to fight harder in the next movie.. and maybe given Luke a reason to come back (in person) in the next film.

    Im still working through it so sorry for the rambling post.. there are parts I loved and things that really piss me off. I've heard from a lot of people its better on a second viewing so we'll see!

  • @TokyoSlim Sith over Jedi?? Waaaaaaaat

  • @Faaip I just hate Ewoks, man.

    There were some weird writing choices that pulled me out.. Luke saying "laser sword" is an example of that.

    I think that was a nod to deep cut nerds like myself, since laser sword was what they were called in early script drafts, and generally how George Lucas himself refers to them when discussing them.

  • @TokyoSlim Ah.. yeah.. I have no rebuttal haha

    Yeah I could see that now that you mention it.. it just felt weird coming from Luke I guess

  • Now that I've seen the film, this is what I took away from it:

    Overall, really enjoyed the film
    Some of the humor hit and some didn't, but the MOST atrocious was the opening banter between Hux and Poe
    I felt A LOT of development for some characters took place here
    Best scene for me, in the entire movie, is the confrontation between Snoke, Rey, and Kylo
    Leia should be dead. Look, I really, REALLY appreciated the different aspects of the force (The interplay of the lightsaber splitting and Luke PROJECTING HIMSELF ON ANOTHER PLANET!!!), but no. Leia Organa should have died in that bridge blast. Keeping that as a death, with Kylo hesitating, would have had a lot more impact.
    Who. Is. Snoke!?!? Where was he during the Empire's reign? How did become so powerful with the force? How did he get as ****** up as he is? Nothing. This and Leia's survival are my two biggest issues from the film.
    The Porgs lasted about two or three scenes too many. But hey, " 'Merch!"
    The text crawl and Crait were straight out of Hoth from Empire.
    I'm..... conflicted.... the most about Canto Bight. Convenience for it's own sake is bothersome and while from a holistic level, I agree with the sentiment it was unnecessary, but there are only two things here that could have potential: Rose could be used in the next Episode (Her purpose here being an establishment) and the very last scene of this movie: The beginning of a new generation of jedi. Of hope.
    Again convenience for its own sake, the slow chase was a plot device to drag the movie, but something that bugged me was how it was possible of the First Order was able to track them through hyperspace. JUST NOW saw a picture from Rouge One where this technology was under development. LOVE Easter Eggs like that.
    Finally, Captain Phasma had so much potential since her unveiling, and she only exists to further Finn as a character

    Again, I really like the film and my snap reaction ranking: V, RO, IV, VII, VIII, VI, then the others.