Dark Souls Remaster reportedly NOT using new assets - thoughts?



  • Just wondering what everyone else's thoughts are on this. I for one am pretty disappointed if this is truly the case, I was hoping the game would be reworked to iron out the major flaws, and be brought up to speed with the latest game in the series in terms of visuals. That's definitely the quality of aesthetic I felt like they were going for based on the teaser.

    This does go some way to explaining how they intend to make the console version 60fps when Dark Souls III was capped at 30, which was causing some confusion for people initially, but even given the bump in framerate, my question is this. If this isn't a substantial improvement, is it worth a remaster at all? And beyond that, are we likely to see a Shadow of the Colossus situation down the line, where it gets the remaster treatment and then later a remake?

    Link to where I heard this news.
    https://www.destructoid.com/dark-souls-remastered-will-not-be-using-new-assets-482196.phtml



  • The enemy and player assets are fine (I'm pretty sure a bunch of them are still being used in Dark Souls 3). It's the environment assets that really suck in a few places. Really poor textures on a lot of stuff.

    But, the biggest flaw in Dark Souls remains to be the fact that the Physics and AI are linked with the Frame Rate. That getting fixed, thus fixing Blighttown, is the most important thing for this remaster. I won't be buying it unless it's fixed.

    No new assets doesn't mean no improved visuals though. There are other ways to do that, such as bringing the lighting engine to match the later entries in the series, which is something that is rumoured to be happening.



  • im fine with it if they get blighttown to run at 60fps while also uprezzing the assets and 6 player multiplayer



  • I'm not disappointed. A new edition of DKS1 (or a trilogy release) has been hypothesized for a long time, and it's really only during these brief hours after the announcement that I thought it might have substantial visual changes. Ports these days are always called "editions" or "remasters" of some sort (and technically the developers do bump something up to justify it), that's what I really expected for some time now with DKS1.

    Now, if we're going to geek out about tweaks and changes for the actual game that I'd love to see then yeah I could go on and on. It doesn't sound like we know if anything tweaks are happening though (besides "no combat differences"). At minimum, I expect there to be many "not immediately noticeable changes" to the game, regardless of any official statements we may get.



  • @Hazz3r Agreed, any improvements are good improvements, and I'd have been down for a Switch port with a stable framerate even if they didn't change a thing. You're right about the systems being tied to the framerate though, I remember in Dark Souls 2 having my weapons melt whenever they hit something because of a higher framerate O_o it was not a good time. I'd love an update in geometry too, Dark Souls 3 and Bloodborne elevate their texture work by having a bunch of carefully crafted geometry with lots of added details (rather than relying on any form of tesselation) which just looks great. Really I just want it to be as good as possible because it's like my second favourite game of all time. :P

    The main thing I find disappointing is the thought that they might not have changed the engine because Demon's and Dark Souls, as much as I adore them, seem to have engines that really struggle in a lot of circumstances. I suppose now they have enough power to throw at the problem to try fix that up, but I worry that the extra power will only go so far and some of the issues will remain.

    For example, did you ever hear the theory that the issues in Blighttown were caused by high CPU usage due to the enemy pathfinding?



  • @FF7Cloud Oh yeah, online stability and performance would be a huge upgrade. I watched an ENB stream on PS3 pretty recently where he invited 2 viewers in and the framerate tanked to single digits. O_O



  • @Chocobop That teaser really got my hopes up I guess, it looks SO like Dark Souls 3. Whilst I understood it was prerendered, it didn't have that sheen to it that a lot of prerendered stuff does which made me assume it was a target render they'd used for the trailer.

    Agreed though, a lot of under the hood stuff being changed would be super beneficial just to make things run better, be more stable, get rid of that game logic-framerate link that just always seems like a bad idea etc. I really do hope they do something with Izalith and the Bed of Chaos fight though, since they didn't end up as originally intended by From's own admission.



  • @Lux-Noctis Yeah, the best theory I've heard about Blighttown is that the mosquitos (and sometimes ghouls) are trying to seek out the player from god knows how far away, and the place is just one giant cavern. As a result, the pathfinding eats up a lot of CPU power.

    There's a great youtube video/conference talk/gamastura article (that I can't find quickly) by the guy who worked on Metroid prime that actually that goes deep into pathfinding design. Most games do simple waypoint systems which are easy to think about but aren't ideal. Navigation meshes work a lot better than waypoint systems and he explains they were basically necessary for Metroid Prime 1 because the Metroids fly, and for flying actors a waypoint system would be even worse than normal. I wonder if DKS1 had that problem!

    EDIT: I found an archive of the pathfinding article, the original is down though: http://archive.is/35vv

    EDIT2 Ha! I even found the youtube clip that is missing from that's article's archive



  • A working Blighttown is more than I ever expected, so yeah, lol.



  • @Chocobop That's the same theory I heard, it seems like maybe they had a navmesh that extended all over Blighttown so they can track the player wherever they go, and as a result, all those calculations are just destroying the processor. The lag is reduced by killing all the enemies so it definitely seems to be enemy related in some way, even if it's not specifically that one.

    Awesome article by the way, thanks for seeking that out!



  • @Minamik Your expectations for this remaster seem a tad low. :P



  • @Lux-Noctis Well, all I think when I hear "remaster" is that it looks and plays a little bit better than the original, so yeah, I guess you could say that.

    One thing I've come to realize after this many years on the net, is that I have exceedingly low standards, lol.



  • Dark Souls is a nearly flawless game. Just being able to play it on PS4 is enough for me. I may even get PS+ just to play co-op with friends because I only got my friends onto the series after the hype of Dark Souls had passed.



  • It's a "Remaster" and not a "Remake" so that's pretty much all you can expect.

    But yeah, if they can fix blighttown then I'm sold.



  • Probably gonna pass on it. I loved Dark Souls. But there's other games I rather play that I haven't gotten around to.



  • @DIPSET I respectfully disagree there, Dark Souls is probably my second favourite game of all time but I feel it's very flawed personally. It really is just mostly the game's performances and a few technical hiccups here and there that I'd say need to be fixed for a remaster, which I expect they will do. That and there are a few sections of the game that they didn't have enough time/money to complete in the manner they originally planned, so it'd be great to see the original vision for those realised in a new version. I love it so much though, I want the ultimate high-production version of it so I can hold it up to the world and be like "yo, play this damn thing!", I want it to be as good as possible. :P

    @ZyloWolfBane I guess so, in fairness the remaster of Shadow of the Colossus while not transformative was a massive step up from the PS2 release. Just being able to play Dark Souls on the go means I'll be grabbing the Switch version regardless. I guess a part of the reason I'm disappointed in the idea of it being just a straight remaster though is that I've played the game on 360, PS3, and later on a high-end PC which (whilst still having a ton of problems and requiring community fixes) seems like it's doing what this new version will be for the most part. A higher resolution, high-framerate version without the need for an overpriced computer (and all the technical nonsense that goes along with fixing up the game yourself) is a great thing though. Through this discussion I'm warming up to it some, if it's a budget price then it'll make a lot more sense to me.

    @Jak That makes sense, I've still got a ton on my to-do list too, what've you got lined up man?



  • @Lux-Noctis said in Dark Souls Remaster reportedly NOT using new assets - thoughts?:

    @DIPSET I respectfully disagree there, Dark Souls is probably my second favourite game of all time but I feel it's very flawed personally. It really is just mostly the game's performances and a few technical hiccups here and there that I'd say need to be fixed for a remaster, which I expect they will do. That and there are a few sections of the game that they didn't have enough time/money to complete in the manner they originally planned, so it'd be great to see the original vision for those realised in a new version. I love it so much though, I want the ultimate high-production version of it so I can hold it up to the world and be like "yo, play this damn thing!", I want it to be as good as possible. :P

    @ZyloWolfBane I guess so, in fairness the remaster of Shadow of the Colossus while not transformative was a massive step up from the PS2 release. Just being able to play Dark Souls on the go means I'll be grabbing the Switch version regardless. I guess a part of the reason I'm disappointed in the idea of it being just a straight remaster though is that I've played the game on 360, PS3, and later on a high-end PC which (whilst still having a ton of problems and requiring community fixes) seems like it's doing what this new version will be for the most part. A higher resolution, high-framerate version without the need for an overpriced computer (and all the technical nonsense that goes along with fixing up the game yourself) is a great thing though. Through this discussion I'm warming up to it some, if it's a budget price then it'll make a lot more sense to me.

    @Jak That makes sense, I've still got a ton on my to-do list too, what've you got lined up man?

    I could be wrong but I recall seeing the price was $40. Which isn't too bad, and it comes with the DLC.

    But yeah, I just make sure to judge the wording when it comes to stuff like this, a full blown remake is exactly that, a ground up engine overhaul, etc. Whereas remasters in most cases upscale the graphics, improve the framerate and call it a day, it just helps keep expectations in check to think of it this way =)



  • As long it's not 60$ and runs well, i'm cool with it. I'm just excited to play it again. I played it on my laptop last time, and i didn't have the best experience playing it. Not to mention, my safe file corrupted half way through the game, so this will be a brand new start for me.



  • I don't grieve them not using new assets, but make sure them textures are CRISP and a new lighting system wouldn't hurt.



  • @Lux-Noctis said in Dark Souls Remaster reportedly NOT using new assets - thoughts?:

    @DIPSET I respectfully disagree there, Dark Souls is probably my second favourite game of all time but I feel it's very flawed personally. It really is just mostly the game's performances and a few technical hiccups here and there that I'd say need to be fixed for a remaster, which I expect they will do. That and there are a few sections of the game that they didn't have enough time/money to complete in the manner they originally planned, so it'd be great to see the original vision for those realised in a new version. I love it so much though, I want the ultimate high-production version of it so I can hold it up to the world and be like "yo, play this damn thing!", I want it to be as good as possible. :P

    Oh yeah I recognize it is flawed. Especially when they added the Capra Demon's and the Tarus Demon's one after the other in the lava level. Or the lava dinosaurs in the Lost Izaleth before facing the Bed of Chaos. Then there are performance issues too. I was just screwing around on my PS3 in Dark Souls the other night and the frame drops are pretty annoying.

    Regardless, the game is quite long and extremely robust and these hiccups don't negate what I believed to be a nearly flawless game. I seriously can't wait to play this with my roommate in the summer.