Switch has buttons swapped. How should I deal with it?



  • @Sheria I was a PC player as a kid and I've never used controllers. When as an adult I've bought my first console (PS3) I was afraid that I will not be able to use it. I started Oblivion and after one hour I could move freely and after 5 hours it was natural.

    I've played 15-20 hours of Mario + Rabbids already and I'm still struggling. I hope I'll overcome this, but it''s ruining game for me now and I want to avoid it. Also I see so many flaws it Switch's UI that some part of my brain refuses to learn this system.



  • @ffff0 Its probably good for the brain to learn this. think of it like a crossword keeping the brain neurons firing.



  • It is really funny how that becomes a non-issue after a while, obviously there's a struggle at first with your brain expecting things to be in a specific place, it happened a lot to me with the X button in the 360, after only playing with PS controllers for years, but after a while of using it I guess the brain is just able to adequate to it.



  • OK, I'll give it an extra learning time. Thanks for encouragements everyone.

    P.S. No wonder Nintendo's consoles (including NES and SNES Classic & Switch) are just lying on store shelves in my country, where Nintendo Consoles were never popular. Such unwelcoming system for first-timers...



  • There is a learning curve. Last Nintendo hardware I owned was DS (maybe Wii but that was an unusual controller) and since I'm used to PS brand and their symmetrical stick placement with D-pad and buttons above them, other style of controllers are really throwing me off. Played BotW for few hours and getting mixed up with jump button and others really annoyed me although I really dislike joycons. Beefy Pro controller would fix most of issues.
    You can always try to remember buttons without paying too much attention what's on the screen like jump is this button on top and so on. Repeat things a few times and maybe it'll click. You already bought it so might as well train for it with putting extra time to learn it.



  • @tearju-engi Interesting. For some reason I had no problems with picking Xbox controller for the first time after several years with PS, but Nintendo is really hard for me. Maybe I'm just getting old.



  • So weird. I don't own a Switch, but I played Mario Odyssey at my friends house and I saw the letter Y and just looked down at the controller and remembered where Y is. I don't even think I thought about it at all really. I just associated the action with the button.

    So weird how our brains work differently like that. I can't play inverted on the Y-axis but can easily play inverted on the X-axis. My friend MUST play inverted at all times. Kinda funny really.



  • Wow, this is an interesting, albeit sucky, problem to have.

    I can't speak for every one of us who grew up playing consoles first, but it might be something to do with how we mapped the button memories in our brains. For example, having played and owned multiple consoles as I'm sure many of us have, it feels as if I usually remember the buttons based on the functions rather than the color or letter.

    For example, most FPS games are mapped similarly so transitioning between consoles is somewhat seamless. Maybe you should try games that are similar and see if the transition is seamless?

    Side note: J-RPG games were sometimes a toss up between whether the triangle or circle button would be the cancel button on PlayStation. (This might have been due to which market the game catered to.)



  • Action button is A in both cases - that's the problem.



  • If I haven't played Zelda: BOTW for while I always confuse "X" (jump, climb) with "B" (sprint, close) at first coming back from other consoles and PC controller. Regardless who defined button placement first, the placement of an action/jump in the top feels odd.



  • I need mostly only to move my thumb 'sideways' to switch between d-pad and a left stick. Same with buttons and right stick. And because they are asymmetrical, it's easy to coordinate them without thinking too much. Now on Switch you have the sticks placement not only in the same place but moving to buttons or directional buttons require you to bend or stretch your thumbs and that is what is throwing me off. And also because of the nature of a handheld. you have to also either keep your arms tightly to your body or keep your wrist in certain angle which builds up stress after a long while so doing long sessions would be rough on them.
    Playing a long time will definitely help in adapting to controller for me since I don't need to see what it shows on the screen because how many times I have repeated same things over and over. You push that grab button a 100 times or do same amount jumping, dashing or doing combo button inputs like aiming and shooting arrows among others, you are bound to get those mechanics down eventually. Though the more buttons you need, the more time you have to invest in them when you are not used to controllers. My nephew at least beat BotW and he has been mostly PC guy and hadn't owned a Nintendo console before. To be fair, kids are good at adapting to new things.



  • If you do go with option number 1 (throwing out your console), do you think you could throw the Switch into my house?

    I do understand what you mean though. Every time I go back to play an old school PS1 JRPG, X is usually to cancel while circle is to confirm selections... which was honestly the intention of those buttons in the first place given what they represent, but considering your thumb is closer to X and there's more to confirm than cancel, it ends up becoming a bit of a frustrating endeavor going back. I'm sure if you keep at it, it'll eventually sink in.



  • @sabotagethetruth said in Switch has buttons swapped. How should I deal with it?:

    If you do go with option number 1 (throwing out your console), do you think you could throw the Switch into my house?

    Catch! ... Oops, I've pressed wrong button and it landed in my cabinet.

    Seriously through, I'm not as emotional right now since I've done playing it and not planing to use Switch again in the near future. But I'm still puzzled why console that lacks so much of basic functionality and has terrible user interface is popular in some parts of the world. Especially since Vita (which is way much better console in my eyes) isn't .



  • @ffff0 the interface is really great . idk what your problem with it is



  • @bigdude1 Here's what I've found:

    • If you accidentally launch the game that doesn’t support Pro controller you can’t even close it without Joy-Cons;
    • The wording around archiving and deleting is so confusing that for a long time I was convinced that by deleting a game you also delete its saves;
    • No button remapping;
    • No way to remove 10 keyboard languages I don't know;
    • Empty white squares on main screen (gives you an impression that there is a limit to a number of games you can install);
    • Impossible to turn off system sounds (for button pressing);
    • No "Free games" tab in store. Access to demos through search isn't great also;
    • When browsing titles in store it's impossible to tell whether it's installed or not (imagine trying to find the only DLC you don't have);

    Didn't use Switch a lot, so there's probably a lot more.



  • @ffff0 Lots of those are such nonissues.

    I've only ever had the no Pro Controller support thing happen to me with the Snipperclips Demo, and you always have your Joycons anyways, because they're attached to the main system. Button remapping would be on a game to game basis, although it does suck so few support it, so that's probably your most valid complaint. Why are you trying to remove languages from your Switch? Trying to get space back? They're on there cause the eShop isn't Region Locked, so you need them in case you want to use other territory eShops. I honestly don't know what you mean by empty white squares, guess I filled all that up Day 1 with games and demos, shouldn't be very hard for you to do the same. Once you fill it up a certain amount it unlocks a different square at the end that lets you display all your games in a different format, so it's not just some endless nightmare scroll if that's what you're worried about. There's definitely no game limit. There's a mute option you can use to disable sound in handheld mode when headphones aren't plugged in. Searching the word demo on the store gets you every demo. It's four letters, so that's not hard to type in either. You actually can definitely indeed tell if a game is installed or not when browsing the store. The game's price will be grayed out and say Purchased if it is installed which includes DLC packs, so the confusing scenario you're pitching is actually impossible. What's misleading you is Switch eShop doesn't do this for physical carts, because it still needs to offer the digital game in case someone wants to switch from physical to digital of the same game.

    Mind you, I have my own list of legitimate Switch system complaints I could lay out like no proper save data backup, but the ones you listed kinda sound like you're reaching and just looking for reasons to complain. I also am a bit more forgiving of my small gripes with the Switch when the OS runs lightning fast and gets you into a game immediately, which is more important to me than fluff extra features that slow that down.



  • @mbun Ok, full disclosure: my PhD was about Human-Computer Interaction, so I’m noticing a lot more problems in UI than average user. Now, detailed explanations.

    Pro controller disconnection:
    When user is about to do some “destructive” action, UI has to either confirm the action or provide a way to revert it (that’s why you can undelete files on PC and has to confirm uninstalling software). Here we have a situation when Pro controller will be disconnected, but there is no way to reconnect it again without using Joy-Cons. An assumption that Joy-Cons are always nearby is not correct: you can detach them from your console and give them to your friend. And in such case (which is not unrealistic) user is completely screwed.

    Languages:
    People from non-English speaking countries switch languages all the time (between English and their native language), so this action should be very simple – preferably one button press. On Switch I have to scroll through a huge list each time I’m trying to switch language. And I have to scroll through options I’ll never use. This is a waste of user’s time and that’s bad.

    Empty white squares on main screen:
    Warning: science incoming. User interface is a metaphor. Buttons, folders, desktop, dragging – we subconsciously use our real world experience when performing such actions and interact with such elements. That’s why it’s really important to use proper metaphor: if you make a label that looks like a button, users will try to push it because we push buttons in real life.
    Metaphor for installed games is a bookshelf: you add another book (game) when you buying it, and you picking one from the shelf when you want to read (play) it. On Switch it’s a different metaphor: containers that you fill with stuff (installed games fill these white boxes). And since number of containers is limited it’s natural to assume that they represent a limited storage.
    Every user who buys and boots Switch for the first time sees these white boxes. There is no disabled scrollbars, no disabled “more” button or any other indication that the number of slots can be expanded. And nothing will appear until you reach the end. Well, guess what, some users will never reach it because they will keep one or two free spots “just in case”. That’s why UI should never confuse users because not all of them will try to do something that seems wrong even if it’s actually right.

    System sounds:
    As you said, you can mute it in handheld mode. Well, what about TV mode? Having a feature that works only in some instances isn’t good, because it makes this feature unreliable.

    Demos:
    What you’ve just described is a workaround. And I didn’t know about it before. Again, that’s why UI should be clear and simple – when users has to talk to each other to learn how to do something simple, UI has to be redesigned.

    Bought DLC:
    That works only for payed stuff and only if you never delete it from your system. If it’s free, or if it was deleted it will look just the same as if it’s installed. Again, this is confusing to user and it should be fixed.

    All of these are really simple things to figure out (trust me; I’m far from being the smartest UI guy). And this is not a Virtual Console, it’s really, really easy to fix. The fact that this console was released with such user unfriendly UI just tells me: Nintendo doesn’t care about its customers. Maybe this isn’t true, but this is how it looks.



  • im just gonna through some counterpoints or counter questions in the same order as your points @ffff0

    • what game does this? i cant imagine pressing the home button and closing it out not working
      *I'm pretty sure it explains it well enough when you go into the menu.
      *For most consoles isnt that on a game by game basis? I know its common on a pc, mainly because of the variety of controller types
      *seems like a non issue nitpicky thing. Iv never even encountered a forign language in the keyboard so are you are asking why its possible to switch?
      *Another non issue, no where does anything imply this
      *seems like a minor nitpick, i dont think other consoles have that either, prove me wrong.
      *It will show its purchased, i would probably agree that it would be a good QoL improvement if it did differentiate that though, just so you don't have to hop back to the main menu. though it only takes a second..

    I would say in many ways is a great UI due to the more simplistic nature of the design. i cant speak for the ps4 but the xbox one for example is just overly cluttered and getting to the specific game you want simply isnt as fast as i would want. not to mention switching between the game and the menu can sometimes have odd effects on the game. mainly online games



  • @ffff0 i get what your saying about language now, i still think that only a few select people would have that problem. but i feel your tile complaint is incorrect. the way the tiles lay out it can be a near endless scroll to the right. i hardly feel that it can even consciously or subconsciously make you think there is a limited amount of arbitrary slots.

    2 tv mode is what you do for most tv and channels use a remote. honestly i hate having to use a system that uses its own sound leveling when the tv has its own. so you have 2 systems that lower or raise the sound arbitrarily and independently from each other



  • @ffff0 said:

    An assumption that Joy-Cons are always nearby is not correct: you can detach them from your console and give them to your friend.

    Even in that case, your friend is sitting next to you and can then just press the home button. It's not like you're permanently lending your friend the Joycons that lock into your Switch. They are part of the core system. You wouldn't just carry around the middle part of your Switch without them, and even if you did you could probably use the power button on top of the Switch to bail out of it.

    People from non-English speaking countries switch languages all the time (between English and their native language), so this action should be very simple – preferably one button press.

    Is there anyone who offers this one button press language switch? I've never seen it on any system. It's always been a huge scroll. You can set up different profiles to take you to different language eShops, not sure what more you want here.

    Well, guess what, some users will never reach it because they will keep one or two free spots “just in case”.

    You're trying to tell me people will never simply try to see if they can put more games on it? Yeah, no. This is where Survival of the Fittest kicks in. Those people are gonna be weeded out the gene pool for a reason and don't need to be catered to. Most people won't even think of what you're talking about, because it's relatively easy to immediately fill this space.

    Having a feature that works only in some instances isn’t good, because it makes this feature unreliable.

    It's for handheld mode, so you don't have to adjust your sound settings every time you undock your Switch and take it on the go so your sound isn't disturbing the people around you when your headphones aren't plugged in. That's the opposite of unreliable. For TV mode, you can just mute your tv with your remote if you don't want sound. It's one button.

    when users has to talk to each other to learn how to do something simple, UI has to be redesigned

    Why would a user need to talk to someone else to learn that searching demo will get them all the available demos? Again, you're babying the user.

    That works only for payed stuff and only if you never delete it from your system.

    Once the user pays for DLC they never have to pay for it again, even if they delete it. It's linked to their account after they purchase it. What you're talking about makes zero sense. They read a description to know if they want the DLC or not. Of course free DLC is going to show as available again if the user deleted it. You want them to just not offer it anymore after the user uninstalls it? Now that truly makes zero sense.

    The fact that this console was released with such user unfriendly UI just tells me: Nintendo doesn’t care about its customers. Maybe this isn’t true, but this is how it looks.

    Unfriendly UI? It's lightning fast and gets you right into the game without any hassle! The fact that you're making mountains out of molehills or even stuff that there's absolutely nothing wrong with just tells me: You have some kinda vendetta against Nintendo or don't care about Nintendo products and are upset that the Switch has become such a popular console that you can no longer ignore it, so you want to make it look worse than it actually is by nitpicking any minor thing possible. Maybe this isn't true, but this is how it looks.