Super Smash Bros. Ultimate (Switch)

  • @capnbobamous I think it's more about the specialized rules and item uses than the characters themselves. Even if you went all-in on customizing with special smash and tweaking item drops and the like it wouldn't be as effective as the game just outright designing challenges based on other characters. I do agree it's not like actually fighting those characters but the intent is there at least.

  • @hanabi I've no doubt the mode will be fun, and the special rules of the matches are cool. I just thought Sakurai's comment was pretty funny and a bit off the nose.

  • That Direct was a massive disappointment to me on multiple levels, but let's start with the final base game character reveals. People are quick to be like "this is what people get for falling for leaks", and some of that is fair, no matter how insanely well done and convincing a leak that you really shouldn't blame people for falling for is. Sakurai did indeed say they went overboard with reveals and not to expect lots of new characters, but Sakurai has also been known to troll in the past, so it is always difficult to take Sakurai seriously when he says something like this. Hell, there's a troll in the Direct after he deconfirms characters as Assist Trophies where the Black Knight from Fire Emblem goes "Know your place!" All that said, I'm not disappointed with the final character reveals because we didn't get like five amazing characters.

    Personally I'm disappointed for the same reason I was disappointed back in Smash 4, as a huge Geno fan. I'm more disappointed because Sakurai goes out of his way to talk about the Smash lore of them being just toys come to life, and that's exactly what Geno is, a doll come to life, so he's always been a perfect fit for Smash Bros. This is how I felt before, during, and now after any "leaks" concerning him possibly being in the game, although as someone who just wants Geno in as a playable character by any means necessary. I won't deny those rumors raised my hopes that now was finally the time. You can't stop yourself from getting excited when you hear way more people than would normally talk about the character suddenly sharing your desire to see them as a new playable fighter. Likewise, I've always wanted playable Waluigi in Smash, but it has been clear for a long time that Sakurai hates the character, so every new Smash I just wait patiently for him to be deconfirmed and don't get too invested in hope for that anymore. Those will probably always be the top of my wanted list.

    Now, rumors that inflated people's hopes unrealistically aside, here's what personally I felt we would be getting from this final Direct in terms of character reveals before DLC. I expected two true newcomers, on a level equal to or above reveals like the Belmonts, Ridley, King K. Rool, or Inkling. We did not get this. We got one true newcomer, the Pokemon Incineroar, and while the character looks great mechanically, it is yet another Pokemon in a roster already full of them, so it isn't the kind of thing that excites me whatsoever. It isn't even the first playable Fire Starter in Smash as we already have Charizard. We also already had Lucha Pikachu in Ultimate get revealed earlier, so thematically this announcement just felt like a repeat to me after that. Overall, Incineroar just isn't as interesting as the characters I named before, the Pokemon has almost no legacy attached, and it just kind of feels like a token Pokemon thrown in because "of course we need a new Pokemon in every Smash!" for cross promotional purposes. We also got Ken from Street Fighter as an Echo Fighter. I expected at least one new Echo Fighter, but if Incineroar is a boring, obligatory pick, then Ken is... well Sakurai said he's pretty much the original Echo Fighter besides Luigi. Basically, he's what everyone expected, and that's before you go into rumors, and that's not exciting. That's my issue with these two as our final character reveals. The character reveals for Ultimate have been a de-escalation, so even pretending character rumors don't exist for a second and going into that hypothetical world, these two would've still been a massive disappointment for the majority of people.

    Now that all that is out of the way, let me go through some of the other reasons I personally am disappointed in Smash Ultimate after this Direct. First off, no new stages were revealed. Incineroar and Ken didn't even get new stages. Sure, Ultimate already has tons of returning stages from old games, but the number of new ones is still pretty small. We have those five DLC ones to look forward to if you pay up sure, but I could've gone for even two or three new ones for the final base game. The Stage Creator was always kind of a mess, but it was still fun to experiment around with, and it could've been grown into a cool thing where you could share and download stages like Mario Maker levels and added value to the Smash App, which so far just sounds like sharing videos, and who cares about that?

    Second, Spirits isn't what I wanted from a single player mode. Sure, the World of Light opening cinematic and song is amazing, and the overworld map for that is very cute and cool looking, but the core gameplay you're going to be doing over and over in that mode is just Smash matches on a stage against characters sort of resembling Event Smash fights with an occasional boss fight to break it up. That's okay, but it is made worse in that the Spirits themselves bring weird stat crap into the mix, which means functionally it is a shitty practice mode for learning characters cause their attributes are being tweaked the whole time, and that is not how they will function when using them online. Even worse, within Spirits, there's all kinds of grindy, quasi mobile game shit like skill trees, leveling up your spirits, they have star ranking rarities so your favorite character ones might be absolute trash not even worth using, and there's weird elements for sending them out on a timer like Xenoblade Chronicles 2 Merc Missions that really has absolutely no place in Smash. We don't have Smash characters going through each other's worlds, not even in small doses. Series staple, Trophies died for this? Some Ultimate version...

    Third, Online presentation was an absolute mess. You know it is bad when there's already apologies and begging not to play certain ways littered in throughout, and Nintendo tries to make the player base feel responsible for using LAN connections to make the online matches more stable when the Switch itself doesn't even come with a place to plug in your Ethernet cable without buying a separate adapter for it. Still have to use your dumb phone for voice chat even after Fortnite proved they could build it into the system. They removed For Fun and For Glory, so now you have even less control of how you want to play Smash Online. You can create a preset for how you'd like to play, but once you go online it is down to RNG whether you get to play a match with your rules against someone who probably doesn't want to play that way, or you're forced to play how you don't want to play against someone else's preferred rules. Both of those outcomes are bad, and I can see people who just want to do 1v1 with no items online just leaving immediately when they start a match with items leading to even more frustration with the online. Sure, there's those friend lobbies you can make, and that looks better designed in general, but that's not quick to hop into. That's the kind of thing that at best takes time to setup or find to get into a group you enjoy. Least you can finally spectate live matches, so that's something.

    Fourth, The Missing Features™ that might still be there. I'm talking about stuff like baked in Tournament Mode and Break the Targets. I don't really have much to say about this other than the menus for this game are such a mess it is even harder than usual to definitively tell what is and isn't included in this game, even with Sakurai diving deep into the Help menu while everyone groans. Modes like Break the Targets, Board the Platforms, Race to the Finish, and Home Run Contest added some good variety in previous Smash games that will be missed if they're not in this one. As Kyle delicately put it, wiggling pictures holds zero value. That's not a valid replacement for these modes if they are indeed canned.

    Finally, let's talk about the DLC. I'm actually not super negative about this! I do always hate people announcing DLC before a game releases, plus Kyle has made some interesting points to chew on and debate against about Piranha Plant as a problematic character, however I'm that weirdo that loves stuff like this. I like seeing a random game enemy, of which there are many, elevated to a Smash fighter like this. A plant in a pot that moves around unconventionally, versus your typical bipedal humanoid fighter that more likely than not fights with some kind of sword. It is creative, interesting, fun, and potentially free if you act now! I wish that's all I had to say about it, but here's my personal problems with it. Mario Franchise already has so many Smash reps and doesn't really need more, but if it had more there's still beloved characters that should be added before stuff like this, even outside the two I've stated I possess bias for before. I've seen lots of online "we didn't ask for this" in regards to Piranha Plant, and there's a similar character who is basically an elevated enemy from the Kirby Franchise named Bandanna Dee that is actually at the top of the most wanted character polls who probably should've been developed in the place of this character. Beyond that, while I'm personally glad it is a weird potted Piranha Plant and not Petey, the humanoid version of one, the Final Smash for it summons Petey. I'm not upset that it just summons Petey. I'm upset that it summons reused assets of a boss from a previous Smash game that wiggles around with cages that no competent player would ever get hit by instead of letting the player transform into Petey and control that themselves with new associated animations. It really shows the lower tier of effort put into this character and how this game could've used more development time, but gotta hit release close to push that paid online launch!

    So in summary:

    Sakurai continues to troll, and Ultimate lacks new characters I am personally hyped to play as.
    Super Smash Bros. Ultimate's single player content isn't what I want from Smash.
    Super Smash Bros. Ultimate's online multiplayer content isn't what I want from Smash.

    Verdict: PREORDER FUCKING CANCELED only maintained because I know it'll be worth it alone for the music

  • I'll admit I was convinced that the Grinch leak was real, although I was also a bit disappointed said leak was missing Incenaroar simply because a character using wrestling moves is severely lacking in Smash (plus He needs a Randy Savage palette)
    Now the Piranha Plant that seems like an outright troll, in the same way Dan or Ryo is.

    As for the 5 DLC I'm curious as to who they will be.

  • Did Nintendo explain the kirby thing in the end? Is that the new story mode?

  • @a7x458 Think it is like a story mode linked to Spirits called World of Light. Definitely a story mode as we see an overworld map, but hard to say how many more cutscenes there will be outside the one they showed and an ending. The part with Mario getting copied was definitely a second cutscene as well, and maybe some of the character reveal stuff could be worked in to places of it. I think Sakurai just confused everyone by ending off on that after explaining Spirits without showing it, but it seems to be the same thing, and if it isn't then Spirits is probably there to grind for World of Light.

  • Amazing Direct. glad they brought some real singleplayer/offline content in this game. which was what smash 4 really lacked and ruined its legs for me. looks fun and the scenarios look hilarious.

    as for the characters. i kinda assumed all the leaks were fake and it looked like the most ambitious ones were. the new characters look fun to play as, im just happy we get more content.

    that world of light reveal was amazing.

  • @bigdude1 said in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate (Switch):

    Amazing Direct.

    This is a stretch. There seems to be a lot to talk that people felt was filler and dragged the direct down. Spirits didn't go over so well and the Piranha Plant response was mixed. I think the general feeling is basically how Kyle phrase it: Bad direct that was salvaged at the end.

  • @sacred-arfaid

    It really isnt, Spirits looks like a really fleshed out single player experience

    i dont play just for characters and we already got 75 characters.

  • Spirits looks like a silly gacha style addition, so I don't see a ton of excitement for that. There was a lot of filler in the direct and some lackluster character announcements. So the direct as a whole wasn't really amazing.

  • @sacred-arfaid what is gocha about it. Nothing they showed was any more or less random than trophies

  • I mean it looks like a cross between Event mode and and Subspace

  • @dmcmaster exactly, both were absent in 4 too. Hyped

  • @bigdude1
    No event mode was in 4

  • @mbun said in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate (Switch):

    They removed For Fun and For Glory, so now you have even less control of how you want to play Smash Online. You can create a preset for how you'd like to play, but once you go online it is down to RNG whether you get to play a match with your rules against someone who probably doesn't want to play that way, or you're forced to play how you don't want to play against someone else's preferred rules. Both of those outcomes are bad, and I can see people who just want to do 1v1 with no items online just leaving immediately when they start a match with items leading to even more frustration with the online.

    1. players who disconnect will receive bans from online play. so there's that problem dealt with.

    2. competitive players will be mad about not being guaranteed that EVERY single match will be 1v1 with no items? boo fucking hoo.

    imo the competitive scene can go have a cry. whether they like it or not they are the minority of players who enjoy playing Super Smash Bros. some of us actually like some variety and don't want to play the exact same way EVERY SINGLE TIME. sometimes it's nice to have a free for all or team battle, with or without items etc. it just makes things more interesting instead of being forced to play a single, generic type of rules set every single time.

    the competitive scene also ALWAYS use's the excuse of banning items and stages because "items are too random and things like walk off stages are too easy to abuse and make it unfair for less skilled players." if you were ACTUALLY the best and as skillful at smash bros as you say you are, you would be able to win in ALL types of matches and situations. some items are easy to obuse? ok. so learn the effects of all the different items and teach yourself how to avoid certain items or how to counter them then. don't cry just because items help to give novice players a chance of winning.

    and for the record. i actually enjoy and prefer playing with competitive rulesets. but i also enjoy variety and having some as well and the competitive Smash community is too whiny and has way too much influence on how Smash bros is played by people imo.

    i was recently at a Smash Bros Panel at PAX Aus and someone asked the question to one of the competive smash players up on stage how they think something like the Squad Strike mode will affect the competive scene and will it show up at tourneys in the future?

    the competive player up on stage replied that they might have really small brackets at tourneys but it probably won't become a mainline thing at tournaments because people have their mains and don't want to be forced to learn how to use other characters.

    What the actual fuck. again. if you were ACTUALLY good at Super Smash Bros then by all means have a main fighter but you should also learn how to use other fighters as well. you should be able to beat me with multiple different characters in a variety of different ways. not just by spamming exactly the same Bayonetta or Cloud combo's every single match.

    that's what i mean when i say that the competitive smash bros scene is way too whiny and picky about how the game is played.

  • @dmcmaster said in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate (Switch):


    o yeah lol i forgot

  • The direct was a disappointment for me since I really only cared about new characters and all three from yesterday are stinkers in my book, that said the 'adventure' mode does look kind of interesting to me so at least there was that.

    Didn't really know there was a controversy about the online features, I really only care about Smash to play in person with friends so anything else is just an extra for me.

  • On the bright side we at least know the 5DLC characters are completely new and not a clone or echo of previous characters. Speaking of with 5 characters to pick who does everyone hope make it in?
    Personally I'd pick
    Shantae (Shantae series)
    Bill/Lance (Contra)
    Skull Kid and Geno (just to make people shut up)
    Lloyd (Tales of Symphonia)

  • @dmcmaster said in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate (Switch):

    On the bright side we at least know the 5DLC characters are completely new and not a clone or echo of previous characters. Speaking of with 5 characters to pick who does everyone hope make it in?

    Alex or Ryan from River City Random and Frog from Chrono Trigger.

  • @dmcmaster I don't know if this would be my definitive list but I would likely include

    Shovel Knight

    And this beyond pie in the sky but I would love have Barry Goodman from TMS#FE in there.