Super Smash Bros. Ultimate (Switch)



  • The direct was a disappointment for me since I really only cared about new characters and all three from yesterday are stinkers in my book, that said the 'adventure' mode does look kind of interesting to me so at least there was that.

    Didn't really know there was a controversy about the online features, I really only care about Smash to play in person with friends so anything else is just an extra for me.



  • On the bright side we at least know the 5DLC characters are completely new and not a clone or echo of previous characters. Speaking of with 5 characters to pick who does everyone hope make it in?
    Personally I'd pick
    Shantae (Shantae series)
    Bill/Lance (Contra)
    Skull Kid and Geno (just to make people shut up)
    Lloyd (Tales of Symphonia)



  • @dmcmaster said in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate (Switch):

    On the bright side we at least know the 5DLC characters are completely new and not a clone or echo of previous characters. Speaking of with 5 characters to pick who does everyone hope make it in?

    Alex or Ryan from River City Random and Frog from Chrono Trigger.



  • @dmcmaster I don't know if this would be my definitive list but I would likely include

    Banjo
    Shantae
    Shovel Knight
    Knuckles

    And this beyond pie in the sky but I would love have Barry Goodman from TMS#FE in there.



  • Elma
    Wonder Red
    Rex
    Gold/silver from pokemon gold and silver
    Bandanna Dee



  • The Missing Features™ that might still be there

    They aren't.

    People have in-depth analyzed the menus now, and it looks like the majority of side modes from Smash 4 and previous games are missing as feared. While we do have the main mode of Spirits called World of Light, what looks to be a pretty well thought out new take on Classic Mode in Ultimate, All-Star dumbed down and absorbed into a reworked Multiman Smash type mode called Mob Smash, some mainstays like Records and the Challenge board, and an improved Training Mode on top of Tips and videos for how to play each character. The "short" list of the things pretty much confirmed missing now is Trophies, Smash Run, Smash Tour, Break the Targets / Target Blast, Home-Run Contest, Stage Builder, Special Orders, and Custom Moves. Most of these seem to have been canned to make room for the dumb Spirits Mode add-ons outside of World of Light. I'm talking that shit that looks like it belongs in a mobile game.

    @yoshi said:

    imo the competitive scene can go have a cry. whether they like it or not they are the minority of players who enjoy playing Super Smash Bros. some of us actually like some variety and don't want to play the exact same way EVERY SINGLE TIME.

    I disagree, not only because this is the most Smash has ever leaned into the competitive side of the franchise, which in the past they've hated even acknowledging, so they might as well cater to that crowd this time, but also because the issue at it's core is players who go online not being able to choose how they want to play online. I have the same problem with games like Mario Kart Wii where when you go online to battle, you can't choose which type of battle you want to play, so even if all you want to do is play Balloon Battle, you end up having to play Coin Battle instead randomly, possibly more than you even get to play Balloon Battle by the time you no longer want to play. That kind of thing always sucks, especially if you had limited time to play in the first place or wanted to practice playing a certain way.

    it just makes things more interesting instead of being forced to play a single, generic type of rules set every single time.

    And by that same note, the opposite will ring true as well. Sure you like no items, competitive rulesets, but you might end up swept up in playing nothing but that more often than you wish to simply by receiving bad RNG from matchmaking. So this very much is a problem that will affect you as well and not just the competitive scene.

    people have their mains and don't want to be forced to learn how to use other characters
    What the actual fuck. again. if you were ACTUALLY good at Super Smash Bros then by all means have a main fighter but you should also learn how to use other fighters as well

    The top pros actually do learn this, because some characters are stronger against others, but they'll still of course have a preferred character they're the most comfortable with and best at utilizing that they dump the most practice into.

    Anyways, Smash Ultimate right now is looking not so Ultimate in every department except it's roster. I'm very disappointed what it is turning out to be, and while I don't want Sakurai and his team to crunch hard to add even more to the game before the launch date, I wish the Switch's Online Service hadn't rushed this game out. If Ultimate had another year or two development time to flesh out like Smash 4, I feel like we'd really be getting a game worth calling the Ultimate Smash Bros. instead of the most barebones Smash Bros. since Melee, just with every character and almost every stage returning. That's still impressive sure, but it does come at the cost of lots more. People have even been speculating that World of Light's story is basically a metaphor for that. This isn't MY Ultimate Smash Bros., but I hope people enjoy what's there when it comes out. Also, in a weird way, this game being not a port and being so light on features at least means Smash 4 isn't immediately never worth playing again once Ultimate comes out, which I would go as far to say was probably one of Sakurai's goals with leaning so hard into Spirits on this one.



  • @mbun said in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate (Switch):

    the issue at it's core is players who go online not being able to choose how they want to play online. I have the same problem with games like Mario Kart Wii where when you go online to battle, you can't choose which type of battle you want to play, so even if all you want to do is play Balloon Battle, you end up having to play Coin Battle instead randomly, possibly more than you even get to play Balloon Battle by the time you no longer want to play. That kind of thing always sucks, especially if you had limited time to play in the first place or wanted to practice playing a certain way.

    the problem with being able to pick your rules and be guaranteed to play with those rules against randoms is that other people around the world might not want to choose exactly the same ruleset as you.

    you might want a 3 minutes 1v1 no items match but this other guy wants a 7 minutes 1v1 no items match instead. meanwhile another guy might want a 3 minute 1v1 match with items.

    there might not be other people playing online with the exact same ruleset preference as you so by sakurai allowing us to select our preffered ruleset and then have matchmaking pair us up with other players who have similar rulesets then at least you won't be waiting in the lobby forever.

    this way you might play a 1v1 3 stock match with no items for 7 minutes, the next you might be playing a 1v1 with items, then you might be thrown into a free for all match and then a team battle match the next.

    the way sakurai has set up Smash Ultimates online just ensures there's variety in match types and that there will be less chance of being stuck waiting for ages in the lobby for someone to show up



  • @yoshi Yep, all this is true. I just wish there was still a hard divide between more causal and more competitive play before you went into fine tuning the rules of each. My friend constantly complained before about every time he'd play For Fun in Smash 4, getting nothing but "Taunt Parties" where people wanted to run around and spam taunts rather than play with items. Now competitive players will get thrown into matches like this, and that sucks. If there was at least still the basic divide down the middle, you could concede that sometimes you're playing 3 minute time no items and other times you'll end up 5 stock no items, but at least both are similar under a banner of a more competitive mindset. Of course the opposite would be true for the other side where you'd get all your goofy, all over the place rules, but they'd all be aimed towards players showing up to goof around and have fun online rather than focus on practicing to get better.



  • @yoshi they are a vocal minority anyway



  • Instead of what you want to play why not have the option to set a deal breaker?



  • @bigdude1
    It has that same mobil game loop and raising/acquiring spirits seems like busy work.



  • @sacred-arfaid it really isnt though, mobile games use it for its core gameplay, this is simply side buffs for the campaign. you can probably grab a few good spirits and you are probably easily set for the whole game. it just gives some longevity if its a mode you dive into.



  • Your kinda rephrase some of my feeling in a more positive way. Mobile games are pretty small, so have a mobile like game as a side thing isn't so odd. I just don't think people are really going wild for it nor was it a highlight of the direct.



  • @bigdude1 Hopefully I'm not just repeating myself endlessly, but my problems with Spirits are that they tweak your fighter so it makes World of Light a bad place to practice fighting under your normal conditions, even if you have a favorite character to use as a Spirit they could be a worthless low rank one forcing you to use ones you don't like instead, and for completionists or just anyone who wants all the Spirits cause they do enjoy the mode some have to be leveled up to level 99 to evolve into better ones which sounds extremely tedious and even outside that there just seems to be a crazy amount of them with different crazy ways of obtaining them such as sacrificing some to assemble the essence to randomly pull new ones which I could see turning into a RNG nightmare.

    Previous Smash games have had modes that altered how characters play, but you're usually only getting one extra affect at a time, usually one that mimics what an item from the normal gameplay would grant you. This is closer to Smash Run style, except I still prefer Smash Run style, because there you're actively working to boost various stats and seeing their effects applied in real time, versus equipping a Main Spirit before battle that boosts your power level a certain number and two Support Spirits that grant you bonus effects, such as immunity to stage obstacles, starting matches with an item, etc. Honestly, the Support Spirits is what I wish they all were. Arbitrary stats aren't fun to deal with, especially in a fighting game.

    On top of all that, World of Light also has the Skill Tree, which you spend an in-game currency on to unlock even more balance tweaks for your character to make them stronger than they normally would be in an online match. Splatoon does upgrades like this too in it's campaigns, and the result is usually people getting their butts handed to them when they first transition to online play, because they're not used to their weapons being weaker than the story versions, running out of ink faster, etc. These things would really benefit more from lacking "RPG mechanics".



  • @mbun how is any of that a problem for you? You know how to play smash right? Transitioning online isnt going to be a problem then. Adventure mode in melee wasn’t anything like regular smashes but it was still fun



  • @bigdude1 said:

    how is any of that a problem for you? You know how to play smash right?

    The intricacies of Smash change every single game, and getting used to things like the distance a character's move extends or how far it launches at what %s is usually something you'd adjust to while going through these types of modes, except the stats and skill tree throw off the standard for that, so you're not learning anything besides the basic effect of each thing.

    Transitioning online isnt going to be a problem then.

    Once all the stats and bonuses are removed, it'll play differently.

    Adventure mode in melee wasn’t anything like regular smashes but it was still fun

    There wasn't anything tweaking launch distance or powering up weaker moves like this in Adventure Mode.



  • @mbun thats why the other modes exist. all these modes can coexist in the same game.

    single player adventure never fully prepares for the change, but it will introduce them to the basic mechanics.

    launch distances(nore any attack variables) didnt matter in adventure mode in melee because everything was sponges that just knocked off screen in a few hits. thats why your point is null, its like that for every single player nontraditional smash mode(adventure/sse/smashrun).



  • @bigdude1 said:

    thats why the other modes exist

    The new Classic mode, Mob Smash, and offline multiplayer are the only ones that don't use the Spirits stuff.

    launch distances(nore any attack variables) didnt matter in adventure mode in melee because everything was sponges that just knocked off screen in a few hits

    The fighting polygon team and stuff were, but there were normal fights too. Also, different characters have different weights to resist knockback from attacks.

    thats why your point is null, its like that for every single player nontraditional smash mode(adventure/sse/smashrun).

    Adventure is normal except for some fights, which are clearly more of a multi-man Smash deal lumped in. Subspace Emissary you were fighting special, different mobs the majority of the time, but true that one wasn't great and people called it out at the time for it. Smash Run you start off normal and observe how the things you pick up affect your character like City Trial from Kirby's Air Ride.



  • @mbun it just seems like complaining for the sake of it. You even said there are traditional modes so why complain



  • @bigdude1 Nah, it is complaining, because I don't think RPG Mechanics belong in fighting games like this, and I think it hurts the overall experience. You're free to disagree, but it won't change my opinion that I'm less excited for this new Smash Bros. and don't see it as an Ultimate version cause this taints the single player and lack of separation between the online modes hurts the multiplayer. I have nothing to gain for complaining for no reason. As cool as a Kid Icarus Uprising port would be or anything else Sakurai would work on, I still enjoy him making Smash games, this particular one just doesn't seem as hot as what they're marketing it to be.

    You even said there are traditional modes so why complain

    There's one normal traditional mode, one repurposed one, and a ton of cut ones missing.