Super Smash Bros. Ultimate (Switch)



  • So I've been watching a number of streams because I desperately want to play this game but not having a Switch limits that greatly but I've gotta ask - why is the online play still so badly implemented? I remember trying to play Brawl online and it was a framerate nightmare but that was on a Wii and I hardly played any games online at the time. It's over a decade later and looking at Kyle's stream, it still runs extremely poorly. Is this something they've addressed and plan on improving or... that's just how it is? As much as I love to play this thing on a couch, I've got friends in different parts of the country, so that makes it a little impossible.



  • There was a patch released just today that I think fixes the online a bit, but I'm not sure



  • @sabotagethetruth said:

    why is the online play still so badly implemented?

    Because it is still P2P and not dedicated servers. It tries to make up for this by matchmaking people closer to one another, but obviously this doesn't work with the arena feature or when matchmaking can't find someone near you with the parameters you want.

    I remember trying to play Brawl online and it was a framerate nightmare but that was on a Wii and I hardly played any games online at the time. It's over a decade later and looking at Kyle's stream, it still runs extremely poorly.

    It is leaps and bounds above Brawl's online, but it is still around the level of Smash 4's online, except with no dedicated competitive mode anymore.

    Is this something they've addressed and plan on improving

    They just put out a patch that makes the matchmaking take longer but work slightly better, so maybe that'll help a little. The crux of the problem though is them still not using dedicated servers, so it is entirely reliant on individual people's connections, which is why during the Direct Sakurai was urging people to buy those Ethernet adapters to improve their connections.

    As much as I love to play this thing on a couch, I've got friends in different parts of the country, so that makes it a little impossible.

    It holds up pretty well 1v1 online as long as they're not using wifi for their connection. When you want to play 4 player FFAs that's when you run into more problems because P2P just sucks like that. It is amazing Splatoon runs as well as it does without dedicated servers either, but it is even worse for fighting games. The paid online started a couple months back, so maybe going forward we'll see Nintendo start to add dedicated servers to their games, but I wouldn't hold your breath.



  • Even more. The Dungeon Man one is mental level of detail for something 0.01% of people would ever have seen normally.
    Youtube Video



  • I don't know what to make of this topic going so quiet post release. Did people get their fill and move on already? Are they so busy playing the brick of content that they haven't taken the time to talk bout it yet? I think Smash has been more about the road to release than the final product since Brawl times, but I expected to see a couple people's impressions by now. Personally, I've only gotten a couple multiplayer hours in with friends, and I haven't gotten to try all the characters yet, but I've seen World of Light through to the end, experienced afew Classic Modes, tried Squad Strike, and done one Smashdown with three of us picking from an incomplete version of the roster.

    Spirits and World of Light was basically most of my prelaunch fears come true, except leveling the Spirits isn't grindy at all. Glad difficulty is present, especially if you pick Hard. More of an RPG campaign than a fighting (or party) game campaign though, so depends more on your Spirits than anything. Won't go into details, but cutscenes were a big disappointment, although Sakurai wasn't wrong to go light on them knowing they'd just get datamined and people would watch them on Youtube. The dungeons were pretty basic despite having some beautiful overworld art. You get tired of so many fights in a row where every fight is just some form of take out your opponent, which is more boring compared to past Event Smash modes, and despite the fights telling you what game the Spirit comes from, there's no historical blurbs to dig into with your wiggling PNGs. The majority of the boss fights didn't blow me away and I think the choices for them were on the boring side. The overworld was really the best part, aside from one thing right before the end of the game that's SO GOOD, but sadly there's not much to do on there between fights. Haven't fooled with Spirit Board yet, but heard people say they don't want anymore fights after World of Light. While I'm always glad to see a NG+ option, I feel the structure of World of Light would lend itself better to just being able to replay individual fights instead of go all the way back through to replay one, so I wish that was different. I also think new life could be breathed into the mode if they would simply add the option for coop.

    Generally playing the game is fun and feels great. My Pikachu main that felt weird to me in Smash 4 feels good to play again. Young Link is gloriously back and feels absolutely perfect to how I loved to play him back in Melee. Haven't gotten to touch my boy Luigi yet or newcomers like the Belmonts, King K. Rool, Ridley, or Incineroar. Tried out Inkling, and they're very hard to get the hang of, but I think with more time I'd really enjoy playing them. Splat bombs are especially fun to try and land. Isabelle isn't my jam, but her fishing pole is fun to troll with. So nobody feels blatantly over or underpowered to me so far, and that's nice for now. My favorite addition is Stage Morph, which usually kicks in right when you're getting kind of bored of the stage you're on, and I've seen it save people from falling into pits while dooming others to, which is always a fun shakeup like turning any stage into a traveling stage. Plus it means you can try out the massive amount of stages 2 at a time. Final Smash Meter is way too chaotic in 4+ player FFAs, but it works pretty well in 1v1s as a better way to get to use your Final Smash. I never touched Omega Forms of stages in Smash 4, but in Ultimate I've enjoyed visually how they can alter the way stages look, and Battlefield Forms do add a way I want to play them. Stage Hazard Toggle is a godsend for getting to play stages you enjoy with friends who normally hate them for annoying hazards that happen there. Love how easy it is to setup different custom rulesets and just take turns switching between them before every match to make everyone happy. Full button remapping and settings plugged to user profiles is another blessing.

    Online is the mess I expected it to be. They've patched it to make it a little better, and learning while writing this from Friend Code you can use Background Matchmaking to force your play preferences more when looking for matches. It is still basically Smash 4's online though. Don't have too much more to say about it. Sucks you can't play with stuff like Squad Strike, Smashdown, Stage Morph, etc. online. Smash Ultimate is definitely best experienced locally with friends.

    Squad Strike will probably end up the Smash Run of Ultimate, where it gets buried under for not being available online despite being pretty fun. I love how it has the Pokemon Stadium-esque way of picking order of your fighters before the match without your opponent being able to tell. Smashdown is a commitment, but it is also SUPER FUN, and it is a great way of forcing your tryhard friends off their main and testing everyone's general skill level with the game. There's so many mindgames you can play even just on the menu picking fighters faster than your friends so they can't pick them. Great addition that I hope stays in potential future games, and really benefits from and synergizes with the massive roster. Haven't touched Mob Smash, but I love the new Classic Mode. It is a little short, but that doesn't feel like a negative with the massive roster, and the way each one is themed to each character is a great touch. Sadly, the Race to the Finish type minigame that is part of Classic Mode isn't themed to each character, exact same for all 74, which is a big disappointment when there's no Break the Targets or anything in Ultimate. It is a short stage you can quickly run through, so it isn't too much of a slog at least. One of the few modes in Ultimate that lets you play coop too!

    Last I'll say on an already lengthy post is I played my time using a Pro Controller, and it worked mostly fine for Smash. Had a couple instances where against friends, in a frantic fight I'd have a Side Special come out when I wanted a Neutral one because the Pro Analogue Stick isn't as springy as the GameCube Controller one, but that's really the worst of it. Getting to use a wireless controller with HD Rumble was worth that tradeoff for me, and it saves me money on not buying the Gamecube Adapter and a newage Gamecube Controller.



  • @mbun said in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate (Switch):

    Are they so busy playing the brick of content that they haven't taken the time to talk bout it yet?

    Yup that's me! I'll share my thoughts once I'm done with World of Light. I haven't even unlocked all the characters yet, I want my Incineroar damnit!



  • So Japanese leaker posted stuff about Joker in Smash, along with news of P5R (Rebirth?) And P5 Arena being delayed because of Arc System Works working on a Gran Blue fighting game, the original post was made 5 days before Gran Blue Vs was announced. Said leaker has now posted about the next DLC character
    http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2018/12/rumour_dlc_fighter_for_smash_bros_ultimate_leaked_on_japanese_textboard



  • @mbun said in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate (Switch):

    I don't know what to make of this topic going so quiet post release. Did people get their fill and move on already? Are they so busy playing the brick of content that they haven't taken the time to talk bout it yet?

    Can't talk. playin vidya games.



  • @dmcmaster That leak both makes sense to me, and doesn't...

    Using a character from DQ seems good, especially since that series is so popular in Japan, but I am surprised they didn't choose the hero from 8 since he seems more recognizable to more people....



  • It's not true, I don't believe it at all. S-E's been way too stingy regarding Smash, there isn't even a single spirit in the game aside from the two for Cloud (that just use his Smash render instead of art from his original game like everyone else) and arguably the SMRPG characters.

    In fact I'm willing to take a bet right now that there will be literally zero S-E represntation in the entire first Fighters Pass for smash. It's a long-term bet, but I'm that confident right now.







  • @hanabi said in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate (Switch):

    It's not true, I don't believe it at all. S-E's been way too stingy regarding Smash, there isn't even a single spirit in the game aside from the two for Cloud (that just use his Smash render instead of art from his original game like everyone else) and arguably the SMRPG characters.

    In fact I'm willing to take a bet right now that there will be literally zero S-E represntation in the entire first Fighters Pass for smash. It's a long-term bet, but I'm that confident right now.

    You might be right. Still a shame... there would so many great characters, i would love to see in Smash... Where is the goddess Lightning for example?

    Lightning



  • Taking a short break from smash but i wanna throw my some thoughts down as I'm about to clear world of light.

    I found world of light to be very addictive, creative and challenging. iv read a lot of complaints that it goes on for too long but id argue that's really only a complaint for reviewers. i feel world of light should be played more as event matches. a thing on the side to go to when you want to take a break from normal matches with friends. I when i needed a break from it, i did other matches(which most reviewers cant have the luxury of having).

    Classic mode is probably the best its ever been. the boss battles are so good! Though i wish there were a few more. good reliant standby.

    Haven't played a ton of online but it works for how I play. I'm not too serious of a player but I'd like to think I'm pretty good at it.

    Easily the best smash game for me. I don't know how long I'm gonna play it but i can say i got my moneys worth already.



  • @bigdude1 said:

    iv read a lot of complaints that it goes on for too long but id argue that's really only a complaint for reviewers. i feel world of light should be played more as event matches. a thing on the side to go to when you want to take a break from normal matches with friends.

    What you're describing is intentions for the Spirit Board. World of Light was definitely intended to be the meaty single player campaign for people to play through consecutively. Not as fast as possible as some reviewers had to, but it also wasn't meant to be spaced out over the period of a year or whatever as you're implying.

    Easily the best smash game for me

    I wish I could agree but due to all the missing features, a worse version of Event Smash turned into a campaign that weirdly doesn't match up to Subspace Emissary despite the low bar that is, and the choice to focus on bringing back old content over creating lots of new content Ultimate just doesn't blow me away like past Smash games have. Hate to perpetuate the meme, but Melee is probably still overall the best complete package. I'd say Brawl instead if the core combat gameplay of that wasn't imo the worst Smash has ever been. Smash 4 won't be super popular going forward, but it added quite a bit to the overall legacy and got really experimental, even if most of those experiments ended up failures.

    I'd still rather play Ultimate in most circumstances, because it has all the characters and they did a good job on the core versus gameplay of Smash as well as providing lots of good options to enhance that. Know it is a regional marketing thing, but I kind of wish the game's name had stuck to Special instead of Ultimate though, because Special is a much better way of describing this game. Sakurai being able to bring back every Fighter from past iterations, as well as most of the stages, and an insanely beefy library of music is indeed Special and commendable, but everything cut out to accommodate that feat, such as the Trophies with their gaming history blurbs, series staple Home Run Contest, the Stage Builder present since Brawl, etc. make the game feel short of Ultimate to me. Great entry in it's own right, but I can't see it as the Ultimate iteration of Smash when it is missing so much iconic Smash content.

    Could've used some extra development time to polish up parts of it like better online, more objectives in World of Light, a different race map for every character in Classic Mode on that one stage, etc. Also wish Sakurai would just let go his frustration that cutscenes will inevitably be viewed on Youtube and make more amazing ones like the Subspace Emissary had and everyone loved. Really don't want to spoil the ones in World of Light for anyone who hasn't seen them yet, but there's not many and the ending in particular just hangs without any explanation. Sakurai might be planning to continue from that point in the next Smash just as World of Light picks up where Subspace Emissary left off, but that campaign had more of a neatly wrapped ending than this has. The cutscenes throughout Subspace Emissary had such love and soul poured into them that really struck the core of what made Smash as a franchise special that only the intro for World of Light gets to briefly touch on.

    Ultimate is ultimate if you are brand new to the series or only care about the core local versus gameplay, but as a complete package it suffers from the sacrifices they made to facilitate that, as well as Nintendo's general current online situation. That's why I still think I have to give the nod to Melee over it, even though by this point I agree with everyone that Melee is super old, it is time to move on, and the core of Ultimate as well as the roster expansions since Melee together make enough of a feel good entry to finally put Melee to bed with.



  • @mbun im not implying any of that. i was saying that when a reviewer reviews a game he has to make a deadline. so obviously the format doest hold up when you got a week to beat the game when most of us would probably take longer than that. and i doubt anyone would want to play thirty hour singleplayer game in just a few sittings

    its also way more varied then event matches so i cant agree with anything from the top part on . the core gameplay is very sound so idk what you are talking about (maybe expand on this point because you seemed to just gloss over it like its some general census). maybe you are putting melee on a pedestal too much?



  • here i'll just say why melee is inferior rather than you just using what melee has as examples why its better

    Adventure mode is really short, not a real story. Event matches are fun but arent as many.

    enemy ai is way worse

    character count is way smaller

    unlocking characters are a big chore compared to others in the series.

    very few bosses.

    less stages/songs/items

    it makes the few modes that are just passing modes seem insignificant to me. like i liked me some home run contest and shit but i only did it cause there wasnt anything else.



  • @bigdude1 said:

    i doubt anyone would want to play thirty hour singleplayer game in just a few sittings

    People who were excited to play the campaign at launch that was marketed as a campaign like any other game that comes out and people want to play to credits?

    its also way more varied then event matches

    Except it isn't. Every single objective is beating the opponent through a normal or Stamina battle. Only the overworld map is interesting, but even the puzzles there are few and far between.

    the core gameplay is very sound so idk what you are talking about

    I said Ultimate's core gameplay was sound.

    maybe you are putting melee on a pedestal too much?

    Not really. I don't want to still think Melee is the best overall package, but they've yet to make a Smash game without some kind of problem since it. Brawl had bad core gameplay and was super unbalanced. Also as great as the Sub Space Emissary cutscenes are, the mode itself isn't very fun to play. Smash 4 had no good single player modes whatsoever and some of the worst menus of the series. Plus you had to buy 2 games to get all the content for it, and Smash was never meant for a handheld, so the frantic action caused my circle pad on my 3DS to break from playing it. Ultimate has lots of series staple content cut out and the majority of the content it does have is just carried over from past versions with very little significant new stuff. Nobody is going to care about Spirits after beating World of Light when they don't even have history blurbs and are just PNGs. Melee is the only one that remains a full package from launch that only improved the franchise without taking away.

    Adventure mode is really short, not a real story

    Was before Smash games had stories like they do now, and despite World of Light being 30 hours, it still really doesn't have a story beyond the opening cutscene. Even the ending is nothing after you spent 30 hours getting there.

    enemy ai is way worse

    It is still pretty good, and that's never been a big deal anyways when you're mostly going to be playing against other real people. Ultimate should be commended for its AI though yes.

    character count is way smaller

    Well yeah, it is only the second game in the series, but Smash 64 only had 8 characters whereas Melee expanded to 26. That's almost 20 new characters. That's beefy, and more importantly they're all pretty well balanced, even in a time before when they could balance patch it post launch.

    unlocking characters are a big chore compared to others in the series

    You just play the different modes of the game and get them. It only sucked for tournaments, but there were easily ways around that like just copying memory card saves over.

    very few bosses

    Series wasn't known for that yet, and it emphasized your matches against the other Fighters more than big extra bosses. Ultimate's bosses, which I won't go into here cause spoilers, are boring picks anyways for the most part.

    less stages/songs/items

    Duh, again it is only the second entry in the series. That's really not a fair complaint when it still has many more of each of these things over the game that came before it. Melee had 29 stages versus 64's 9 stages and 26 of them were brand new. Smash 64 had 45 music tracks in Sound Test. Melee had over 80. Smash 64 had 20 items while Melee had 35 if I counted right. Either way it had more of everything.

    it makes the few modes that are just passing modes seem insignificant to me

    ??? I mean the versus is always the core of the game, and again it had many more modes than the game before it. Feel like you're judging it too harshly based on what we have now. By your logic, every old entry of any game sucks in comparison to the new ones, because they're all bound to have less general stuff overall.



  • @mbun In fairness, you can't really have it both ways where one is able to critique Ultimate with things you think Melee did better but then say that by Melee being the second entry, it can't be critised for it's lack of bosses, charactes, stages etc.

    I never played Melee so I can't comment but I think the points brought up are pretty fair.



  • As for Smash, I played the Wii version and could not get into it at all. I was only playing it by myself and none of my friends were interested in it. I never really understood it so I stopped playing pretty quickly.

    However I decided to hold onto my pre order of Ultimate as I have a bunch of friends who are into the series (and it has Snake :D ). So far I haven't played with friends so everything I've done is single player related.

    So I finally at least understand how Smash works now which is more than I can say before the release. I've cleared out classic mode with about 40 or so characters and I'm enjoying doing that as it's fun to unlock a character and run through classic mode again with a different character. That said I kinda find the format of it to be pretty disappointing. This may be due to some of the early fights where it ended with a fight against boss Bowser or Ganon and I thought those were so cool but then you realise that's actually pretty rare and you'll spend most of your time fighting some hands. Realistically once I unlock every character I don't know if I'll play more of Classic mode.

    As for World of Light, I've sunk far less time into this and really don't know how I feel about it. I think we've been kinda spoiled by story driven fighting games as I find the motivation to progress in this to be really lacking for me. I did about 3 fights one day and just found it really boring having to deal with the spirit cards. But then another day I played for maybe an hour or so and at least got into messing around with the cards a bit more. I don't know really.. I'm just finding it a bit of a very mixed bag that I don't think will hold my interest too much.

    That may all come across as negative but I'm actually mostly enjoying my time with the game, far more than the Wii version, and I'm really looking forward to playing with friends.

    Oh, just an extra. my only concern with friends is how chaotic the game can get. A few times it zooms out and I completely lost track of my character.