Final Fantasy X
naltmank last edited by
@theotherjohnp XII is the game in the series I most want to revisit - I got it close to when it first came out, and quit it about 4 hours in because I absolutely hated the combat system. I think I just didn't get it. I also wasn't a huge fan of the license system, but I think I'd like it way more now. The recent re-release seems like it went a long way towards remedying all of the issues I had when I first played it (namely speeding up the combat), and I absolutely love the revamped soundtrack from what I've heard.
@Brannox thanks for the explanation on some of those plot details. I remember you saying in a few places how much you love FFX, so I was really curious to hear your thoughts/takes in more detail. To be honest, I was a little nervous going into this game because of what I know your tastes - I know you love FF7, which I was kind of meh on, so I wasn't sure if this was going to be a repeat of that.
Overall, I can't really argue with people that totally hate this game. I get it. But I just really liked it for some reason. The length wasn't an issue for me - I like shorter games, and this one still took me around 36 hours (keep in mind that FF4 I think took less than 30). The difficulty was perfect for me, since I'm not very good at video games (although it was still harder than FF7 and FF9). I just like the vibes here. To each their own, I guess.
@naltmank Your welcome! But in all honesty, you shouldn't have been nervous about mine or anyone else's opinions. If you wound up not liking it, I would like to discuss the points where we would differ, and hope to glean as to why some things you dislike/hate I enjoy and vice versa.
The absolute awesome thing about Final Fantasy (and I'll say it again): For most people, there's a game for them. I love entries people hate, I dislike/hate games people LOVE. That's just the way it falls sometimes.
I get it too; as I just touched on, some things people may like, others might find irritating. And agreed: To each their own.
tl;dr not enough talk about Auron in here.
Glad you mostly enjoyed your time with 10 though! Way back when, I used to claim it was my favorite in the series but my opinion has cooled off considerably once I tried to revisit the game with the remaster.
Fun fact - you mention liking Wakka's voice acting and you absolutely should, considering it's actually John DiMaggio (Bender from Futurama/Jake from Adventure Time) doing that voice.
Actually super curious about your next venture into Chrono Cross. I remember loving it as a kid (way more than Trigger...) but I honestly don't recall much about it. I'm wondering how its aged.
naltmank last edited by
@sabotagethetruth When I saw DiMaggio's name in the credits I felt like an idiot for not realizing it sooner, haha. And yeah, Auron is the man! Really liked his arc (and Brannox's summary of it). We'll see about Chrono Cross - I consider Chrono Trigger the greatest game of all time, and I'm already a little nervous just from the opening 30 min of Cross. The art style isn't really jiving with me yet, but I'll probably warm up to it. Fingers crossed!
Agreed about the Auron talk. He's my favorite character in gaming for a reason and can conveniently be seen in the forums' top 50 characters of all time here
El Shmiablo Banned last edited by
@brannox At no point in FFXIII should need to grind. Every obstacle can be overcome by being better at the game's combat mechanics.
Despite being largely automatic, I find XIII's combat to be one of the the most skill based in the series. Cid whoopin' yo ass? Time your Paradigm Switches better.
Im playing through X again on my Vita. Must say Im almost enjoying it more now than I did back on the PS2. Maybe its because I havent really played a JRPG like that in a long time. Perhaps the writing isnt the best and the temple trials annoy me a bit, but man I love the combat and even grinding on the road to next boss is fun. I might be a little OP but it makes things easier... Also I have a burning hatred for Seymour which is something you are meant to have for a villain.
The music is also great and I find myself hyming on the songs even when Im out walking. It got some real nice melodies that stick with you and there has been a couple of times where I just stop to listen to the music before I continue on.
With the equipment I often stick with the same gear as well, only change before some bosses when I know that they are weak towards specific elements. That said I kinda wish that they had different dmg etc (more than the added stats) so you would have more of a reason to try new stuff. Brotherhood and so on are very iconic for the game, but using the same weapons for 30 hours makes me feel like every other weapon are a waste of Gil.
About the HA HA HA-scene, When it is in context I must say that its actually really moving. I know its a meme, but its meant to be that stiff and weird.
Im no fan of Blitzball
All this said, I think it is a great game and once you get through the sluggish first 2-3 hours and end up on the island, its one of the better JRPGs on the PS2.
@el-shmiablo Here's the beautiful (or aggravating) thing, dependent upon your view, is I can't remember if I fought Cid in XIII (hell, I can't even remember Cid PERIOD), but the fight that stopped me was an impassible "normal" fight, in some tower, shortly after two boss fights with a BS timer (which I completed both with less than one second left). XIII doesn't become an RPG until it opens up to where you can improve. Where you hate X's design and see things as terrible mechanics for the game, I find XIII's to be horrible, prevents you from experimenting outside of about six different Paradigm options (dependent who you're controlling in the story) and combat is strategic regardless of game, just different in the type of strategy. If a game prevents you from getting better, that's not a sound choice.
And all of this is about combat. I haven't touched on why story, characters, setting, etc. have me annoyed, if not aggravated.
We've had our stances on the subjects, and I'm worried we're about to jump into a never-ending circle. If you wish to continue, I'm game so lez do eet. But I don't think either of us wants to defend a Final Fantasy the other despises, and go on and on and on. It's all good: You hate X. I hate XIII. You like XIII? Great! I like X. Big woop.
El Shmiablo Banned last edited by
@brannox I don't think I ever mentioned saying FFX has bad mechanics. In terms of combat, FFX was a milestone for turn based JRPGs, as evidenced the fact that pretty much every single JRPG after it has copied it's mechanics almost exactly.
My frustration stems from the horrible story, annoying characters, atrocious design, and generally unsatsfying everything else in the game.
I don't understand the logic of "it isn't an RPG unless you can get better". Like I mentioned, you can most certainly get better... at the combat. Where you can "get better" in X by overlevelling, you can get better in XIII by paying better attention to the flow of battle and Paradigm Shifting at exactly the right time. I had absolutely zero problem progressing in XIII until the Cid fight. I tried levelling for a bit but it made zero difference. What made the difference was exactly what I mentioned; paying attention to the battle and using the game's mechanics to my advantage. Ever notice that an animation plays sometimes when you shift? You can predict and time this, which can help you tremendously in combat.
As for XIII's story, I quite liked it. The game presents it somewhat disjointedly, but reviewing it in the loading screens and in the glossery it is actually quite good and cohesive. Squeenix actually has a video on their YT channel that presents the game's story in sprite form and it makes it much more digestable.
@el-shmiablo My apologies in terms of inferring from the mechanics.
As for your frustrations, I feel the same about XIII. Also, upon rereading my writeup, I wasn't clear on what I meant about getting better. I was not referencing the player getting better, but the characters. Otherwise, there's no difference in getting better from a character standpoint in a first-person shooter, and say, a fighting game: Both of those (and many other genres) requires player skill, not really the characters. What I was pointing to was progressing in-game characters in being stronger with better abilities, a diverse set of stats determining other characteristics, etc.
In no way am I saying that a player's skill isn't important, but my point is I despise XIII's combat in mostly the lack of the ability to be stronger. Being able to buff characters, and more specifically, invest in how said characters fight (which if I remember there IS a diverting system, but it's not too, too branching), allows combat to progress and grow. Something clicked for you, where it didn't for me, (Combat) and vice versa (Characters, Design, etc.).
To your question about an animation playing, no, as it's been some time since I've played and as a result, some details are fuzzy.
For XIII's story, again, I couldn't progress past a specific spot so I don't remember much. I DO remember Barthandelus (I fought him once), I remember Lightning and Hope being stuck together, Hope was pissed at Snow for some reason, Lightning was irritated about Sarah and Snow for some other reason, and I can't remember where or why Fang and Sazh fit in. I remember the chocobo living in his hair though. Granted, knowing my luck, the story probably became exceptional right after I stopped, but from what I can remember, the story in real-time was underwhelming (And speaking of disjointed, I could rail about XV's presentation, but I don't want to digress).
I still stand by my defense, as I'm sure you do as well. The most fascinating thing I have found, not exclusive to our discussion, is X seems to be the most divisive entry for many reasons. My I ask your favorite entry to have a better understanding of your tastes for the franchise? Regardless, thank you for the conversation.
@brannox It has been awhile since I've played XIII, but I believe the reason Hope was angry at Snow was due to Snow's actions leading to the death of Hope's mother. A pretty legit reason to be upset with someone but yet Hope receives a lot of hate from people that dislike XIII. A lot of people complain he whines a lot... which he does... and that's his arc. Overcoming a tragedy like that and finding his own strength.
Unpopular opinion of the century - the combat in FF13 is my favorite out of any Final Fantasy game. Yes, even Tactics. X is real solid though, much better than the sluggish mess of IX.
@sabotagethetruth All I remember was the anger, not the reason, so thanks for letting me know!
As for your combat preferences: Great! Though I must say I AM surprised you like it more than Tactics. As for IX, it's the most recent one I've played and it's combat is alright, but there are certain design choices that I wish were different. But C'est la vie.
@brannox I surprised myself with that realization too. Maybe something is wrong with me, got a case of that blitzball fever clouding my judgement or something.
El Shmiablo Banned last edited by El Shmiablo
@sabotagethetruth I also share that sentiment.
Despite people complaining about how automatic it was, I thought XIII's combat was very engaging and required more actual skill than other FFs.
That 8bit story recap of XIII I was talking about.
Exist 2 Inspire last edited by Exist 2 Inspire
Among my least favorite Final Fantasy games. I just replayed it recently and the only things i really like are the combat system, which is imo the best in all the mainline FFs and the Soundtrack. Everything else is straight up average (story) or even awful (most of the chars, the super linear nature of the game). For me it simultaneously ended a era of really strong FFs (VI-IX) and started the era of mediocre FFs (X-XIII). I would probably say it's better than XII and XIII but nowhere near VI-IX.