Pokémon Let's Go, Pikachu! & Let's Go, Eevee! (Switch)
What bothers me is the franchise consistently getting dragged down by babies, and I don't mean the important next generation of Pokemon players, I mean the entitled, hipster, trash, scum of the franchise who refuse to give a chance to anything beyond the first two generations and constantly expect to be catered to or they're immediately hard out, forcing GameFreak's hand for the last 8 years!
I'll be honest, I never heard about these people. I'm sure they exist in YouTube or Twitter comments, but are they really so widespread and powerful, or just a vocal minority? I find it hard to believe that there's millions of them and that not catering to them would actually result in significantly worse sales for the series. I would expect GameFreak to have access to data we don't, and be able to assess what their audience is composed of pretty accurately. I think it's just that the first gen Pokemon are simply the most iconic and recognizable ones, so whenever they want to attract the mainstream and lapsed audiences they sprinkle them in (like they did with Alolan forms).
the game is fun to play
There's plenty other fun stuff to play right now without settling for anything GameFreak will put out.
hope you can get passed that it's a casual pokemon game
That's not my problem with it. Hell, I played Pokemon Quest for quite awhile, but even Quest is less mindless than Let's Go.
that Pokemon Trailer is still epic though.
Just cutting some game footage to the nostalgia bait Indigo League western anime opening song isn't what I'd call epic.
I'll be honest, I never heard about these people.
I have no idea how. They're all over the place and extremely vocal, usually wearing it proudly on their sleeve. I guess you stay away from all social media and "news" sites whenever new generations come out.
are they really so widespread and powerful, or just a vocal minority?
Why would GameFreak cater to a vocal minority for 8 years straight?
I think it's just that the first gen Pokemon are simply the most iconic and recognizable ones, so whenever they want to attract the mainstream and lapsed audiences they sprinkle them in (like they did with Alolan forms).
That's the same thing. That's saying they'll only play if you keep the focus on the "most iconic and recognizable ones" which straight up sounds like something a Genwunner would say themselves.
I guess you stay away from all social media and "news" sites whenever new generations come out.
I really do, there's not much of value to be read on Twitter or YouTube comments, they're just hives of negativity.
Why would GameFreak cater to a vocal minority for 8 years straight?
What I meant is that considering the ladt few games as pandering to this crowd feels overblown to me. Yes, Let's Go is all about Gen 1, because that's the one the Pokémon Go playerbase is most likely to be familiar with and it's a "safe" choice for a mainstream test-the-waters-for-cheap remake on Switch. But apart from the Alolan forms in SuMo, I don't see how Gen 1 has been given priority in the last few games?
Anyway, we know we'll get a proper new gen next year with hopefully deeper gameplay options for those who want it, so let's wait and see. No harm in Let's Go existing as it is, it's a stop-gap release before the main event.
But apart from the Alolan forms in SuMo, I don't see how Gen 1 has been given priority in the last few games?
I skimmed it above. Stuff like being given a second starter in XY from Kanto with Mega Evolution as a focus, overshadowing the Gen 6 starters themselves. We only even got Gen 3 starter mega evolutions, because the focus of the games they came from was Hoenn as they were remakes of Gen 3. No other generations got or get the same special treatment outside their specific remake games.
Anyway, we know we'll get a proper new gen next year with hopefully deeper gameplay options for those who want it, so let's wait and see.
Depends on the definition of proper. If it is like SuMo, then it won't be what long time fans are looking for. Sure we can wait and see, and of course I hope it turns out that Let's Go being extremely casual means they'll go hard the other direction for Pokemon 2019, but where the franchise is right now and how well Let's Go is selling leaves no room for optimism.
SabotageTheTruth last edited by
I've been playing Pokemon for at least 15 years and I have never, ever seen a shiny in the wild. Ben plays Let's Go Eevee and finds a shiny Kakuna in less than two hours. I'm not sure if that's because the shiny rates are increased in Let's Go or he just happens to be lucky though.
While I don't own a Switch (high on the list of desires right now), I still don't think I'd be too eager to purchase this one. It leans very heavily into how cute it is, which is fine, but it doesn't really do much for me personally. I'd pet my Eevee/Pikachu once and probably not return to it after that.
Ben plays Let's Go Eevee and finds a shiny Kakuna in less than two hours. I'm not sure if that's because the shiny rates are increased in Let's Go or he just happens to be lucky though.
The base shiny rate is the same as it has been, but using Lures increases the rate. Doing Catch Combos also increases the rate. I don't think Ben did either, but the reason he still got one so fast is that Pokemon are constantly spawning on the overworld, which is a chance for each to be shiny, and when you see a shiny spawn you can run over and get it, which inherently makes them way more common than loading into random encounters one at a time. They're so common in this game it kind of ruins their specialness, but that's not something I can blame on this game when chaining has been doing that for generations now.
A7X458 last edited by
I just got my first shiny EVER in a pokemon game (excluding the red Gyaradosin gen2), after 35 combo and maybe 2 hours of farming Magikarp next to the mewtwo cave.
So it seems Let's Go is having worse sales at launch in the UK but maybe better everywhere else? Also seems to be selling quite well among non-gamers, which hopefully won't trigger a Wii 2.0 situation within Nintendo.
The install base of the Switch is much smaller than that of the 3DS when SuMo launched though, so that could explain the difference to some extent.
@axel Install base is still pretty good. The real reason there's such a difference is because Pokemon GO isn't the extremely popular fad it was at the launch of Pokemon SuMo. Even though this game was designed to rope in GO players and get core players to play GO, since GO lacked the substance of the main series the fad died, and the playerbase shrunk significantly over the last two years. This mostly reflects the difference in the size of that playerbase now. Install base of the Switch doesn't really matter, because if there was a crowd of GO players chomping for Let's Go like they chomped for SuMo 2 years ago, they'd just buy new Switch systems to play it on.
tokeeffe9 last edited by
@mbun I think that just means the expectations were lower than a main line pokemon game and it came pretty close to those numbers (bar Sun/Moon which was around the initial Go hype)
it came pretty close to those numbers (bar Sun/Moon which was around the initial Go hype)
If you think of XY as 100% of the usual Pokemon fanbase buying it and SuMo as 100% of the usual Pokemon fanbase buying it, plus 50% of nongamers buying in, then Let's Go is probably 75% of the usual Pokemon fanbase begrudgingly buying it cause first Pokemon game on the Switch and your tv without sold separately stuff, mixed with impatience for waiting until 2019 for the real deal, plus 20% of nongamer GO audience buying it.
A7X458 last edited by
In Mewtwo cave there's 1 floor with a lot of hidden items ( BTW Pikachu tail will start twitching if you come near a hidden item), apparently they re appear every 10-15 minutes and there's a chance of a master ball will appear in one of the hidden spots.
Guthwulf last edited by
Btw... for everybody who hasn't figured this out yet: The Pokeball Plus has "all three Buttons" for Pokemon Let's Go. The sometimes needed "Y" Button (for example for sorting the poke box) is accomplished by "shaking" the Pokeball Plus.
I bought a switch for Pokemon Let's Go and after playing now for around 10-15 hours... I don't get the hate and I don't get the "it is not a real Pokemon game" or "only for casuals".
For me Pokemon Let's Go is a full Pokemon title and I even want some of the changes to continue into the Core Series.
But I also had my fun with Sun & Moon and X/Y. Titles, which also got much hate from self proclaimed "oldschool / hardcore" fans. So maybe I'm not a "true" fan? Man... I'm so frustrated with this part of the close minded fandom culture. Although I don't want to say, that there is nothing to critizise in Pokemon Let's Go or that everybody "has to" like the game. Tastes are different after all.
But, nobody can claim that Pokemon Let's Go has less features, depth or content than the original Pokemon Yellow. Yeah... abilities, held items and breeding are not in the game (but these were introduced in later generations anyways). Also nobody can deny that Pokemon Let's Co added a lot of features from later Pokemon Games (for example mega evolutions, alolan pokemon, gender choice & clothing for player ...) including some new content (like the master trainers in post game) and new comfort features (like poke box in your bag). Everything else is from the original or has at least a replacement (with the exception of the minor Rocket Game Corner).
In summary: Pokemon Let's Go has factual more depth and content than the original Pokemon Yellow). What you can argue about is, which other features from later Pokemon Gen's should have been also added and which Changes or Replacements (Pokemon Go Catching instead of Wild Pokemon Battles?) is or is not to your personal taste.
Personally I love the new Catching mechanic. It eliminates the need for pointless fights (one or two wild pokemon against 6 of my pokemon... guess who will win) and concentrates on the real source of suspense in wild pokemon encounters (the catching itself). The mechanic itself is fun, way faster than a fight (therefore creates a better flow while "grinding") and realizes some much needed variety between all the fights with trainers (which occur much frequent to balance for the replaced wild pokemon battles). So you still have enough battles. There are ways to improve this system (curve ball? training fights to help experiment more with your battle party?), but I like this change.
Another change I love is the roaming Pokemon instead of the old random battles. Now I can choose which Pokemon to hunt and which to avoid. Also the world feels way more lively seeing all the Pokemon wandering around.
EV training is replaced with Awakening values and feeding Candy to your Pokemon. I also like this new system in theory but in reality it is way to overpowered. If you use it, you elimante every last bit of challenge in the game. So it needs some balancing and changing.
I don't miss the old Safari Zone (replaced with Pokepark Go) and most of the other changes I can at least understand or even prefer them in Let's Go (for example HM replacement and riding your Pokemon instead of a bike). I think, I mostly miss breeding and a bit more challenge in trainer fights. Why trainers still mostly fight with only one or two (under trained) Pokemon against my full party? I never understood that, but I also never played Pokemon for the "challenge".
And Pokemon Let's Go looks and sounds just beautiful. All in All... for me personally it is not only a full Pokemon Title it also is one of the best (or at least most charming) Pokemon Titles, which I ever played.
To all the haters: Please at least try it yourself and stay as open minded as possible while doing it. Not every change is bad and every Pokemon Game so far had its own set of problems...
Personally I love the new Catching mechanic. It eliminates the need for pointless fights (one or two wild pokemon against 6 of my pokemon... guess who will win) and concentrates on the real source of suspense in wild pokemon encounters (the catching itself).
My problem with that attitude is that the wild Pokemon fights were hardly ever about who would win in a 6v1 or so battle, but rather about you marching through a wild area, constantly skirmishing with wild Pokemon, whom you gained experience for beating or new teammates for weakening and catching, (reward) but also would constantly wear down your team between Trainer battles. (risk) It was something to always think about and consider whether to push forward recklessly, use medicine, or retreat to the Pokemon Center before continuing on. Without the battles, there's zero threat to any "dungeon" type area in the game. Basically just a cakewalk of catching less earned, "free" Pokemon between every Trainer fight, and since the Trainers are the only things that can harm your Pokemon, and they are not only not random encounters but stationary targets you can see coming, as long as you're not playing with your eyes closed then there's effectively zero threat of ever losing.
Compounding this issue is always having your PC box with you, so even if some of your Pokemon were low on hp and you didn't want to use medicine to heal them, you could just swap your active ones with others in your box and continue on with those instead. Since the game is all about catching lots of Pokemon, you have a near inexhaustible supply to do this with. I know people say it's so "convenient!" To me it feels like an unnecessary level of convenience that breaks the design of the game entirely by trivializing traversal through the world and encounters against trainers in sequence. Hell, this means when facing the Elite Four you can change your entire team between every battle to have a whole team of full fresh and healed Pokemon super effective against whatever type the next Trainer you're fighting is stocked with.
Like, you've admitted in your post how insanely broken Candy and Awakening Values are, but even ignoring that this whole game is full of seemingly uncaring changes that absolutely obliterate any sense of balance in the gameplay or even core design of this as a game in the first place, to what end? Maybe you enjoy the power fantasy of steamrolling absolutely everything you come across and endlessly winning, but I just don't see the point to it at all. If you're going to go that far to completely negate the point of earning Pokemon, raising Pokemon, choosing clever movesets, strategizing when to use which ones, and managing your resources the whole time as everything is free, then why is the battling even an element of the game at all at this point? Why aren't you just walking through the Pokemon world as not a trainer, but a groomer or something, admiring all the other aspects of the world besides the battles? I mean you'd still get to trek across the region, see the cute Pokemon following and riding animations, meet other Trainers and Pokemon, etc. It would just make more sense.
That's my fundamental problem with this game. Just feels like in leaning so hard into making sure anyone can beat it that it is having some sort of identity crisis and people just don't care or even really question it as it is the first mainline Pokemon game on console, and there's lots of cute shit in it so you don't think as much about how it has been three hours since the last time any of your Pokemon have even been at risk of fainting. Just throw a bunch of shiny Pokemon at people and they'll get excited and not think about how there's a move with 100% burn chance that also has high base power or only 18 ride Pokemon pulled from a dex of 153. Yes there's plenty larger size Pokemon left that they could've utilized for that. Hell, there's only like 2 you can surf on and 1 of the 2 is the traditional Lapras. That must mean they're all quality riding animations at least right? Nope, your partner Pokemon stays magically glued to your head for the majority of them. Oh, and if you get too close to any object for even a second, the Pokemon fly back into their ball jarringly and reappear just as jarringly once you have enough clearance.
I don't get the hate and I don't get the "it is not a real Pokemon game" or "only for casuals".
Hopefully at least one of my points has shed some light on that. Also, by design the game is to get the casual mobile GO player crowd into the core series while also existing for younger fans to play coop with their parents, hence yes this was made for casuals, but casual doesn't necessarily have to be uttered with a negative tone or connotations in mind. Just a shame that even as a casual experience, rather than balancing it to be really easy, they seemed to just forego spending time trying to balance it at all.
hate from self proclaimed "oldschool / hardcore" fans. So maybe I'm not a "true" fan? Man... I'm so frustrated with this part of the close minded fandom culture.
You recognized how awfully broken Candy and Awakening Values are, so that's at least more than I can say I've heard certain others bring up about the game, who seem to not care about any of the flaws because "they're having fun with it" or ones who will straight up argue that those aren't flaws but just the way the game was designed, to which I would counter that this game's design is a lack of thoughtful design. This game makes choices that are opposite of proper game design to heavily stack everything in the player's favor at all times without ever really challenging them in the least, which I frankly find insulting to their intelligence. Yes, these days gamers are spoiled for choice and will often bail to the next thing if a game doesn't explicitly cater to all their "needs" and wants constantly, but I just am baffled by people's ability to find fun in something amounting to a virtual tour through Kanto, a mostly unchanged region many are already familiar with. One only possessing some semifancy new graphics, yet still even lacking polish even in that department with shoddy transitions, lack of facial expressions to convey emotion on NPCs outside the center of the story, limited offerings in new animations with many reused from SuMo and even within the same game, and not even a Day / Night cycle. Sure, Yellow didn't have it, but it sure would've been nice to finally see Kanto in this graphical "glory" at night. If visuals is going to be one of the few things I can point to that seems mostly positive, at least give me that. But it didn't.
Please at least try it yourself and stay as open minded as possible while doing it.
So I tried. I tried, and I'm just not into it what I found, for lots of reasons. Lots and lots and lots of reasons. I can accept that this game just isn't for me and that's fine, but after SuMo and now this, I am seriously concerned for the future of the core series of this franchise, and I am doubting they're ever going to get back to what made me fall in love with Pokemon and what I enjoy about the games, especially when people are actually buying and praising this. Why would GameFreak ever put effort into making another game, when they can just not balance anything and people eat it up?
Guthwulf last edited by Guthwulf
This game makes choices that are opposite of proper game design to heavily stack everything in the player's favor at all times without ever really challenging them in the least, which I frankly find insulting to their intelligence.
If I understand your post correctly, your reasoning boils down to this essential core argument. It is not challenging enough.
Isn't that some distorted perception of the past? Never ever where Pokemon Core Titles challenging. Since the very first generation you could easily steamroll through 99% of all encounters with your overleveled starter and some decent secondary pokemon with just some exceptions in the end- and postgame. Yeah, you could just not overlevel your pokemon and this way artificially create some challenge in the game, but you can do that as well in Pokemon Let's Go.
The challenge has always been in multiplayer with fights against real humans and their well trained pokemon, but never in singleplayer.
The only challenge in singleplayer arose because the early games didn't explain their gameplay mechanics well, hid information from the player and because these games were completely new without todays internet as collaboration tool and information source. Sure Sun & Moon overdid it with hand holding and mouthfeeding every mechanic, but Let's Go so far strikes a good balance. Is Pokemon Lets Go on the "easy-scale" somewhat more easy? Sure, but Pokemon Lets Go is designed as Gatewaygame so I don't have a problem with that. Many of the (long needed) convenience features, I want also in future core titles. There are other ways to achieve some risk / reward and more challenge (mostly notable: make trainer fights more challenging with 6 pokemons right from the start). And lastly: nobody can recreate your very first personal experience with pokemon. That is long gone, since you now played many of these games.
If "challenge (in singleplayer)" is the reason you fell in love with pokemon, than you must have played different games than me. I fell for pokemon because of completely different reasons. But ok, tastes and perception is different. If you want real challenge in singleplayer, than lets go is indead the wrong game for you. That doesn't make the game necessarily bad. It is just not for you. Personally I see some flaws and room for improvements in Let's Go like in every other game in existence, but I still love the game (including a lot of the changes) and are now looking somewhat optimistic forward to where the franchise is going.
Axel last edited by Axel
Just wanna say, I'm really enjoying these conversations about controversial games like this and Fallout 76, it's refreshing to read respectful disagreeing opinions!
@Mbun What you're describing is basically every JRPG's loop, go through many successive, but manageable, fights that wear you down until you reach the real challenge, the boss at the end of the dungeon. Good, modern JRPGs manage to make even those simple encounters challenging and not let you just spam the attack command (the Bravely series, Octopath Traveler for example did that really well). The older Pokemon games did have this loop, but never in a refined way, enemies were always dumb and never stood a chance.
I too would love the series to present me with encounters that always keep you on your toes, enemies that adapt to your Pokemon's type, Trainers with complex strategies similar to those used by PvP players that make you think hard about your team's composition, etc. There's so much potential in this combat system, it's a shame they seem to leave it all to PvP to make the most of it. The singleplayer campaign has always been about introducing you to a new region, new Pokemon and learning the ropes.
Now would they lose too many players if they made that change? Hard to tell, I imagine they could still lure in the casuals with fancy graphics and cool adverts and by the time they realize the game is actually challenging, too late, Game Freak's got your money!
You know what would be perfect? A "Pokemon Tactics" game that would be all about strategic fights. That's the dream.
naltmank last edited by
A "Pokemon Tactics" game that would be all about strategic fights. That's the dream.
Have you tried Pokemon Conquest? I wasn't a huge fan but it's similar to what you're suggesting.