Pokémon Let's Go, Pikachu! & Let's Go, Eevee! (Switch)
Yoshi last edited by
@mbun pretty sure it's past your Bed time Zoomer.
@yoshi I'm actually classified as an older millennial apparently. It isn't even like I dislike Kanto or the first 151 Pokemon or such. I'm just not so blinded by the warm fuzzy feelings of seeing it modernized with cute Pokemon animations to overlook everything else wrong with the game. I'm not out of line to say this game is aimed towards three groups consisting of Genwunners who usually haven't played a Pokemon game since Gens 1 or 2 and will overlook all the flaws because "the first 151 are the only real Pokemon!", GO players new to the mainline series who mostly don't know any better, and young kids discovering Pokemon and probably playing with someone older coop who also are unaware how dumbed down everything is for them. Want to talk Zoomers? In interviews they're cited as part of the reason the game is the way it is, because if they aren't instantly gratified they get frustrated or bored and go do something else. So don't you dare allow your players to actually lose a fight, even just let a Pokemon faint, or anything remotely challenging or earned, lest they get frustrated and quit playing with so many choices of other media to consume today.
Beyond how the game is intentionally designed though, there's all the stuff I've listed posts above that just shows GameFreak isn't taking these games seriously at all. There's no attempt to keep them balanced whatsoever. There's polish lacking all over the place. There's missing systems cut from previous games there was no reason not to add. There's reused assets absolutely everywhere such as sprites from Gen 4, 3D Models and animations from the 3DS games but in higher res now, and even the walking animations were something in the code of SuMo that they never used back then, probably due to technical limitations, repurposed for these games. These games are clearly intended to grow the Pokemon brand. They're intended to get GO players playing the mainline games and mainline players trying out GO. They're not a traditional cashgrab where a dev builds a shoddy, low budget game and then markets it in a way that makes it look better so people don't realize they've been swindled until it has sold extremely well, but GameFreak didn't spend the usual amount of time or money on these games either.
Obviously Kanto is old. Yes they reimagined the region in a more modern style, but even that reimagining is low effort, keeping things mostly the same layouts for the sake of playing harder into nostalgia and not having to invest in thinking about cool ways to update it or scale it in a way that makes more sense for the new style. These games are basically Yellow remakes, but they're less updated than the previous Gen 1 Kanto remakes, the Gen 2 Johto remakes, or even the Gen 3 Hoenn remakes were to the games those were reimagining. Ever since the Gen 3 remakes Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire, where they introduced Pokemon's multiverse excuse to do whatever they want now without having to worry about how games fit into one another, they've been excessively lazy with orders of events and such. Let's Go takes it to a whole different level though. All the "'member this?" references in the game to other games don't line up with one another at all and are a big jumbled mess if you actually tried to make sense of this game's place in any timeline, somwhat akin to Breath of the Wild. Instead they aim for triggering as many doses of nostalgia as possible, and you can see just how effective that's been in covering this game's flaws.
Now hopefully, I want to believe all that means they've been working harder on the 2019 game, to make that a real leap for the franchise. One with proper thought, effort, and budget sunk into making it a truly good game, but what happens when this game sells extremely well? What happens when it sells even outside of its intended audience and GameFreak sees they can make as much or even more profit just pandering to nostalgia in people with a phoned in game rather than delivering a well crafted original one? That's why I'm not content sitting back and letting the intended audience for this game just enjoy it for what it is and not notice what they wouldn't notice as the intended audience. Not when unintended audience are also buying this game, because they're starved for Pokemon, because it is the first "real" Pokemon game on the Switch, because they too possess the nostalgia for Gen 1 Kanto, despite having also seen how much better these games can be.
Zeitgeist is fun to be part of. It is always easier to just go along with the group opinion rather than to speak out against it and rain on people's parades or attract their ire for disagreeing in the quality of something they enjoy. If you care about something though, in the long term, sometimes it is necessary to speak up about your discontent with the directions it is heading, to inform people of the flaws below the surface that are hidden beneath warm fuzzy feelings, to be the killjoy. I voiced my problems with SuMo after that released, and many people disagreed with me and said they loved the games and the direction. Later GameFreak made Ultra SuMo, and people rebought essentially the same game a second time, leading to them replaying it, to seeing the flaws that were covered up the first time in the excitement of a new generation and waking up to how bad and linear those games actually originally were. This was not until after GameFreak had already made their money and moved on with thoughts of "this is what people enjoy" though. It was too late to realize these things. That's why I now play the part of the angry old man screaming at the clouds of a game clearly not designed for them. I simply want to point out how people are being manipulated, how many flaws are being brushed under the rug, and the future repercussions of just buying this game and going along with what it offers to hold you over until Pokemon 2019.
I could just tell people just to not buy Pokemon Let's Go, but that would just make me a hater trying to control people's actions. It has an intended audience, and I don't even think this game is a joyless experience the intended audience won't get a kick out of, but if we are to go forward with a Pokemon series for the casual players and another for the hardcore players, those among the hardcore do need to show shreds of restraint rather than telling GameFreak they're "fine with anything". I want people to know in full exactly what they're getting into, so they know what this game should have and is missing, what it does have, and how it plays before they drop the cash on it. I'm a long term fan of the franchise. I'm going to follow the games anyways to see where they're going, whether or not I ultimately buy and support them myself depending on the directions GameFreak takes them.
I want this franchise to flourish and have something to offer everyone, but nostalgia, pandering to a group who only likes and supports Gen 1-2 Pokemon and refuses to try or accept anything new has been harming the direction and future of the franchise for way too long now. It technically goes back to Gen 5 where many of the new Pokemon for that game were designed as counterparts to or reimaginings of Gen 1 concepts for Pokemon. Then Gen 6 included underlying elements reminiscent of Gen 1 such as Snorlax blocking paths, a new forest with the same layout as Viridian Forest, and of course giving the player a second starter from Gen 1 Kanto that now Mega Evolves. Then Gen 7 once again dumped the Gen 1 callbacks all over the player with stuff like Nugget Bridge, but also introduced Alolan Forms, which conveniently only exist as counterparts for Gen 1 Pokemon. Pokemon has never been as big as it was during the explosion of popularity it had during Gens 1 and 2. GameFreak is forever chasing that fanbase that will only buy into games heavily pandered towards those generations. Those are the people I refer to when I say Genwunners, a group I have no respect for, because in their refusal to try or accept anything new they're dragging this franchise down and have been for ages now. I welcome any new fans to this franchise who got their start with Pokemon GO and any younger fans who find Let's Go an easy hopping in point. Genwunners though, only buying this game cause it is yet again a trek through Kanto, caring about nothing else but the original 151, not understanding their detriment to franchise, all I have to say to that audience is take off your damn nostalgia glasses and learn to love more than ~14% of the franchise or get out before you ruin this for everyone.
Treehouse told us we could turn it off. GameFreak actually took it out before release, so the player couldn't even choose to if they wanted. Defend this.
I don't want to argue for the sake of arguing, I'm also not going to buy this game and would love a Breath of the Wild level reimagining of the series instead of it, but there's a couple of your points I do disagree with.
There's missing systems cut from previous games there was no reason not to add.
I think the reason lies in what you said above about the intended audience, they just picked the systems they felt were enough, and more complexity would actually be a disservice to the game. More features don't automatically make a game better, on the contrary. Personally I would like the Xenoblade series a lot more if they cut half of the systems in there, there's way too many things to keep track of that overlap and feed into each other, and it seriously diminishes my enjoyment of those games. Not everyone wants to play games with an Excel sheet on the side. Now obviously, Pokemon has never been that complex, but clearly in Let's Go's case, they felt it would serve no purpose to include all of the systems present in past games. It's also a Gen 1 remake, which didn't feature a lot of these systems in the first place. I know you'll tell me the first remakes added systems so why wouldn't this one do? But again, there's just a sweet spot they feel they must maintain in order to satisfy their target audience, so they do have a reason to not include everything.
There's reused assets absolutely everywhere such as sprites from Gen 4, 3D Models and animations from the 3DS games but in higher res now, and even the walking animations were something in the code of SuMo that they never used back then, probably due to technical limitations, repurposed for these games.
I really don't see why that's a problem. Why reinvent the wheel? Why redraw the sprites of every Pokemon just for the hell of it, just to show that put effort into the game? And you know that there would inevitably be people bitching that the new sprites are not as nice as the old sprites anyway... And animations never used back then and now repurposed, again, how is that a problem? Are they supposed to just throw perfectly usable animations away and start from scratch just... out of principle? Game development is hard and expensive enough as it is, if you can cut a couple corners here and there you'd be stupid not to do it. It doesn't take anything away from the value of the game. You're not purchasing a collection of 3D models, you're buying a game.
keeping things mostly the same layouts for the sake of playing harder into nostalgia and not having to invest in thinking about cool ways to update it or scale it in a way that makes more sense for the new style.
Again, I'm pretty sure if they had made more significant changes in some places there would be hordes of old "fans" screaming at the top of their Twitter lungs that "they butchered the games, this NPC is not exactly in the same XY coordinates as he used to be, this remake is a travesty, bla bla bla" They're damned if they do, damned if they don't.
All in all, I agree with you, it's definitely not an appealing title for us "refined gamers", but let's not exaggerate and accuse it of all the sins, it is what it is, it will satisfy the mainsteam audience and put smiles on many faces this Christmas.
I don't have high hopes for Pokemon 2019, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt until I see it.
Mbun last edited by Mbun
I think the reason lies in what you said above about the intended audience, they just picked the systems they felt were enough, and more complexity would actually be a disservice to the game.
Day / Night Cycle would only add to the game aesthetically. The game even technically tracks what time it is for the purpose of Alolan Rattata evolving.
I really don't see why that's a problem. Why reinvent the wheel? Why redraw the sprites of every Pokemon just for the hell of it, just to show that put effort into the game?
Back before the sprites became 3D Models, they were redone for most of the new games. It is fine to argue that the jump to 3D Models was good when there's over 800 Pokemon now, but this game only has 153 plus some Alolan Forms. Fresh Sprites for them would've been realistically doable, especially in a game where they only had to make new 3D Models for 2 new Pokemon and extra ones for your partner Pokemon.
And you know that there would inevitably be people bitching that the new sprites are not as nice as the old sprites anyway...
They could already do that for them using the Gen 4 Sprites instead of the Gen 1 Sprites. Least these would've been new.
And animations never used back then and now repurposed, again, how is that a problem? Are they supposed to just throw perfectly usable animations away and start from scratch just... out of principle?
No, but I'm demonstrating how little effort went into this game when one of the big things it touts is actually repurposed from the development of a previous game. With all the lackluster presentation, it is difficult to see where the time and budget for this game even went.
You're not purchasing a collection of 3D models, you're buying a game.
That's a funny line, because when they first made the models, they actually did sell it as a 3DS collection "game". I don't think these are the exact same ones from back then though. Think they got polished up in the games since.
Again, I'm pretty sure if they had made more significant changes in some places there would be hordes of old "fans" screaming at the top of their Twitter lungs that "they butchered the games, this NPC is not exactly in the same XY coordinates as he used to be, this remake is a travesty, bla bla bla"
Okay, just don't listen to those people. Like the end of my post said, we've catered to that crowd long enough. People have joked that this is a remake of a remake, even though it technically isn't because it is instead a remake of a third version, but that's just semantics and it kinda is that.
All in all, I agree with you, it's definitely not an appealing title for us "refined gamers",
I only use terms like casual and hardcore to explain the audiences. I'm not trying to say one is better than the other. Both can exist as long as there's games for us both. SuMo was extremely heavily casualized. Let's Go is the epitome of casual. This is why I fear for the future where you have a casual series and a mega casual series instead of a hardcore series and casual series.
let's not exaggerate and accuse it of all the sins
Trust me, I'm not. I've even held back little things I consider "nitpicks", because most are w/e not a big deal. Like it sucks you can only change your Partner Pokemon's hair in Handheld Mode. It sucks enemies running away from you seems to be complete RNG. Those kinds of things. The game just has enough problems where you see my long list of issues and think I'm listing "everything".
it will satisfy the mainsteam audience
Let's be real. No, it won't. Pokemon 2019 will come, and if it isn't also super catered to this same crowd with tons of Kanto, original 151 references throughout they're going to complain about it and bail right back out the franchise. They'll make fun of the new Pokemon designs and call them Digimon and all the same shit that happens every new Generation. Best case scenario they'll wait til the next Let's Go game is made and only play those but even that will probably stop after Gen 2 Let's Go, because this is the same crowd that's mostly never played a Pokemon game from Gen 3 onward for before mentioned "reasons".
I don't have high hopes for Pokemon 2019, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt until I see it.
I'm not giving it the benefit of the doubt anymore, not after SuMo and Ultra SuMo.
would love a Breath of the Wild level reimagining of the series
And I can't see the future where we get this either, which I'm actually more than fine with. The baby steps don't bother me. What bothers me is all the stuff that I play the game for like exploration getting ripped out so they can march the player down one path, because heaven forbid they get lost or players actually have unique experiences with the game! What bothers me is when GameFreak sacrifices good systems between games for zero logical reason. Like you said before, game development is hard so why not take shortcuts? Where the hell did the amazing PSS system from XY go? Why did we go from that to the Festival Plaza everyone hated? Now Let's Go has almost no online features, no GTS, just some codes to exchange with Friends to do the most basic of trades and battles with them, and people are actually saying they miss the Festival Plaza by comparison! What bothers me is the franchise consistently getting dragged down by babies, and I don't mean the important next generation of Pokemon players, I mean the entitled, hipster, trash, scum of the franchise who refuse to give a chance to anything beyond the first two generations and constantly expect to be catered to or they're immediately hard out, forcing GameFreak's hand for the last 8 years!
A7X458 last edited by
@mbun i understand your frustrations but the game is fun to play, even with all the stuff they took out of it, i hope you can get passed that it's a casual pokemon game and give it a shot, it only makes me more hyped for next year game.
I got half my team ready, Pikachu, Nidoking and charizard.
Yoshi last edited by
@mbun i'm not hyped about the games at all. i bought them both. but i'm not excited about them at all like i am for both Spyro Reignited and Smash Ultimate.
that Pokemon Trailer is still epic though.
What bothers me is the franchise consistently getting dragged down by babies, and I don't mean the important next generation of Pokemon players, I mean the entitled, hipster, trash, scum of the franchise who refuse to give a chance to anything beyond the first two generations and constantly expect to be catered to or they're immediately hard out, forcing GameFreak's hand for the last 8 years!
I'll be honest, I never heard about these people. I'm sure they exist in YouTube or Twitter comments, but are they really so widespread and powerful, or just a vocal minority? I find it hard to believe that there's millions of them and that not catering to them would actually result in significantly worse sales for the series. I would expect GameFreak to have access to data we don't, and be able to assess what their audience is composed of pretty accurately. I think it's just that the first gen Pokemon are simply the most iconic and recognizable ones, so whenever they want to attract the mainstream and lapsed audiences they sprinkle them in (like they did with Alolan forms).
the game is fun to play
There's plenty other fun stuff to play right now without settling for anything GameFreak will put out.
hope you can get passed that it's a casual pokemon game
That's not my problem with it. Hell, I played Pokemon Quest for quite awhile, but even Quest is less mindless than Let's Go.
that Pokemon Trailer is still epic though.
Just cutting some game footage to the nostalgia bait Indigo League western anime opening song isn't what I'd call epic.
I'll be honest, I never heard about these people.
I have no idea how. They're all over the place and extremely vocal, usually wearing it proudly on their sleeve. I guess you stay away from all social media and "news" sites whenever new generations come out.
are they really so widespread and powerful, or just a vocal minority?
Why would GameFreak cater to a vocal minority for 8 years straight?
I think it's just that the first gen Pokemon are simply the most iconic and recognizable ones, so whenever they want to attract the mainstream and lapsed audiences they sprinkle them in (like they did with Alolan forms).
That's the same thing. That's saying they'll only play if you keep the focus on the "most iconic and recognizable ones" which straight up sounds like something a Genwunner would say themselves.
I guess you stay away from all social media and "news" sites whenever new generations come out.
I really do, there's not much of value to be read on Twitter or YouTube comments, they're just hives of negativity.
Why would GameFreak cater to a vocal minority for 8 years straight?
What I meant is that considering the ladt few games as pandering to this crowd feels overblown to me. Yes, Let's Go is all about Gen 1, because that's the one the Pokémon Go playerbase is most likely to be familiar with and it's a "safe" choice for a mainstream test-the-waters-for-cheap remake on Switch. But apart from the Alolan forms in SuMo, I don't see how Gen 1 has been given priority in the last few games?
Anyway, we know we'll get a proper new gen next year with hopefully deeper gameplay options for those who want it, so let's wait and see. No harm in Let's Go existing as it is, it's a stop-gap release before the main event.
But apart from the Alolan forms in SuMo, I don't see how Gen 1 has been given priority in the last few games?
I skimmed it above. Stuff like being given a second starter in XY from Kanto with Mega Evolution as a focus, overshadowing the Gen 6 starters themselves. We only even got Gen 3 starter mega evolutions, because the focus of the games they came from was Hoenn as they were remakes of Gen 3. No other generations got or get the same special treatment outside their specific remake games.
Anyway, we know we'll get a proper new gen next year with hopefully deeper gameplay options for those who want it, so let's wait and see.
Depends on the definition of proper. If it is like SuMo, then it won't be what long time fans are looking for. Sure we can wait and see, and of course I hope it turns out that Let's Go being extremely casual means they'll go hard the other direction for Pokemon 2019, but where the franchise is right now and how well Let's Go is selling leaves no room for optimism.
SabotageTheTruth last edited by
I've been playing Pokemon for at least 15 years and I have never, ever seen a shiny in the wild. Ben plays Let's Go Eevee and finds a shiny Kakuna in less than two hours. I'm not sure if that's because the shiny rates are increased in Let's Go or he just happens to be lucky though.
While I don't own a Switch (high on the list of desires right now), I still don't think I'd be too eager to purchase this one. It leans very heavily into how cute it is, which is fine, but it doesn't really do much for me personally. I'd pet my Eevee/Pikachu once and probably not return to it after that.
Ben plays Let's Go Eevee and finds a shiny Kakuna in less than two hours. I'm not sure if that's because the shiny rates are increased in Let's Go or he just happens to be lucky though.
The base shiny rate is the same as it has been, but using Lures increases the rate. Doing Catch Combos also increases the rate. I don't think Ben did either, but the reason he still got one so fast is that Pokemon are constantly spawning on the overworld, which is a chance for each to be shiny, and when you see a shiny spawn you can run over and get it, which inherently makes them way more common than loading into random encounters one at a time. They're so common in this game it kind of ruins their specialness, but that's not something I can blame on this game when chaining has been doing that for generations now.
A7X458 last edited by
I just got my first shiny EVER in a pokemon game (excluding the red Gyaradosin gen2), after 35 combo and maybe 2 hours of farming Magikarp next to the mewtwo cave.
So it seems Let's Go is having worse sales at launch in the UK but maybe better everywhere else? Also seems to be selling quite well among non-gamers, which hopefully won't trigger a Wii 2.0 situation within Nintendo.
The install base of the Switch is much smaller than that of the 3DS when SuMo launched though, so that could explain the difference to some extent.
@axel Install base is still pretty good. The real reason there's such a difference is because Pokemon GO isn't the extremely popular fad it was at the launch of Pokemon SuMo. Even though this game was designed to rope in GO players and get core players to play GO, since GO lacked the substance of the main series the fad died, and the playerbase shrunk significantly over the last two years. This mostly reflects the difference in the size of that playerbase now. Install base of the Switch doesn't really matter, because if there was a crowd of GO players chomping for Let's Go like they chomped for SuMo 2 years ago, they'd just buy new Switch systems to play it on.
@mbun I think that just means the expectations were lower than a main line pokemon game and it came pretty close to those numbers (bar Sun/Moon which was around the initial Go hype)
it came pretty close to those numbers (bar Sun/Moon which was around the initial Go hype)
If you think of XY as 100% of the usual Pokemon fanbase buying it and SuMo as 100% of the usual Pokemon fanbase buying it, plus 50% of nongamers buying in, then Let's Go is probably 75% of the usual Pokemon fanbase begrudgingly buying it cause first Pokemon game on the Switch and your tv without sold separately stuff, mixed with impatience for waiting until 2019 for the real deal, plus 20% of nongamer GO audience buying it.