Pokémon Let's Go, Pikachu! & Let's Go, Eevee! (Switch)



  • In Mewtwo cave there's 1 floor with a lot of hidden items ( BTW Pikachu tail will start twitching if you come near a hidden item), apparently they re appear every 10-15 minutes and there's a chance of a master ball will appear in one of the hidden spots.





  • Btw... for everybody who hasn't figured this out yet: The Pokeball Plus has "all three Buttons" for Pokemon Let's Go. The sometimes needed "Y" Button (for example for sorting the poke box) is accomplished by "shaking" the Pokeball Plus.

    I bought a switch for Pokemon Let's Go and after playing now for around 10-15 hours... I don't get the hate and I don't get the "it is not a real Pokemon game" or "only for casuals".

    For me Pokemon Let's Go is a full Pokemon title and I even want some of the changes to continue into the Core Series.

    But I also had my fun with Sun & Moon and X/Y. Titles, which also got much hate from self proclaimed "oldschool / hardcore" fans. So maybe I'm not a "true" fan? Man... I'm so frustrated with this part of the close minded fandom culture. Although I don't want to say, that there is nothing to critizise in Pokemon Let's Go or that everybody "has to" like the game. Tastes are different after all.

    Pokemon Let's Go

    But, nobody can claim that Pokemon Let's Go has less features, depth or content than the original Pokemon Yellow. Yeah... abilities, held items and breeding are not in the game (but these were introduced in later generations anyways). Also nobody can deny that Pokemon Let's Co added a lot of features from later Pokemon Games (for example mega evolutions, alolan pokemon, gender choice & clothing for player ...) including some new content (like the master trainers in post game) and new comfort features (like poke box in your bag). Everything else is from the original or has at least a replacement (with the exception of the minor Rocket Game Corner).

    In summary: Pokemon Let's Go has factual more depth and content than the original Pokemon Yellow). What you can argue about is, which other features from later Pokemon Gen's should have been also added and which Changes or Replacements (Pokemon Go Catching instead of Wild Pokemon Battles?) is or is not to your personal taste.

    Pokemon Let's Go

    Personally I love the new Catching mechanic. It eliminates the need for pointless fights (one or two wild pokemon against 6 of my pokemon... guess who will win) and concentrates on the real source of suspense in wild pokemon encounters (the catching itself). The mechanic itself is fun, way faster than a fight (therefore creates a better flow while "grinding") and realizes some much needed variety between all the fights with trainers (which occur much frequent to balance for the replaced wild pokemon battles). So you still have enough battles. There are ways to improve this system (curve ball? training fights to help experiment more with your battle party?), but I like this change.

    Another change I love is the roaming Pokemon instead of the old random battles. Now I can choose which Pokemon to hunt and which to avoid. Also the world feels way more lively seeing all the Pokemon wandering around.

    Pokemon Let's Go

    EV training is replaced with Awakening values and feeding Candy to your Pokemon. I also like this new system in theory but in reality it is way to overpowered. If you use it, you elimante every last bit of challenge in the game. So it needs some balancing and changing.

    I don't miss the old Safari Zone (replaced with Pokepark Go) and most of the other changes I can at least understand or even prefer them in Let's Go (for example HM replacement and riding your Pokemon instead of a bike). I think, I mostly miss breeding and a bit more challenge in trainer fights. Why trainers still mostly fight with only one or two (under trained) Pokemon against my full party? I never understood that, but I also never played Pokemon for the "challenge".

    And Pokemon Let's Go looks and sounds just beautiful. All in All... for me personally it is not only a full Pokemon Title it also is one of the best (or at least most charming) Pokemon Titles, which I ever played.

    Pokemon Let's Go

    To all the haters: Please at least try it yourself and stay as open minded as possible while doing it. Not every change is bad and every Pokemon Game so far had its own set of problems...



  • @guthwulf said:

    Personally I love the new Catching mechanic. It eliminates the need for pointless fights (one or two wild pokemon against 6 of my pokemon... guess who will win) and concentrates on the real source of suspense in wild pokemon encounters (the catching itself).

    My problem with that attitude is that the wild Pokemon fights were hardly ever about who would win in a 6v1 or so battle, but rather about you marching through a wild area, constantly skirmishing with wild Pokemon, whom you gained experience for beating or new teammates for weakening and catching, (reward) but also would constantly wear down your team between Trainer battles. (risk) It was something to always think about and consider whether to push forward recklessly, use medicine, or retreat to the Pokemon Center before continuing on. Without the battles, there's zero threat to any "dungeon" type area in the game. Basically just a cakewalk of catching less earned, "free" Pokemon between every Trainer fight, and since the Trainers are the only things that can harm your Pokemon, and they are not only not random encounters but stationary targets you can see coming, as long as you're not playing with your eyes closed then there's effectively zero threat of ever losing.

    Compounding this issue is always having your PC box with you, so even if some of your Pokemon were low on hp and you didn't want to use medicine to heal them, you could just swap your active ones with others in your box and continue on with those instead. Since the game is all about catching lots of Pokemon, you have a near inexhaustible supply to do this with. I know people say it's so "convenient!" To me it feels like an unnecessary level of convenience that breaks the design of the game entirely by trivializing traversal through the world and encounters against trainers in sequence. Hell, this means when facing the Elite Four you can change your entire team between every battle to have a whole team of full fresh and healed Pokemon super effective against whatever type the next Trainer you're fighting is stocked with.

    Like, you've admitted in your post how insanely broken Candy and Awakening Values are, but even ignoring that this whole game is full of seemingly uncaring changes that absolutely obliterate any sense of balance in the gameplay or even core design of this as a game in the first place, to what end? Maybe you enjoy the power fantasy of steamrolling absolutely everything you come across and endlessly winning, but I just don't see the point to it at all. If you're going to go that far to completely negate the point of earning Pokemon, raising Pokemon, choosing clever movesets, strategizing when to use which ones, and managing your resources the whole time as everything is free, then why is the battling even an element of the game at all at this point? Why aren't you just walking through the Pokemon world as not a trainer, but a groomer or something, admiring all the other aspects of the world besides the battles? I mean you'd still get to trek across the region, see the cute Pokemon following and riding animations, meet other Trainers and Pokemon, etc. It would just make more sense.

    That's my fundamental problem with this game. Just feels like in leaning so hard into making sure anyone can beat it that it is having some sort of identity crisis and people just don't care or even really question it as it is the first mainline Pokemon game on console, and there's lots of cute shit in it so you don't think as much about how it has been three hours since the last time any of your Pokemon have even been at risk of fainting. Just throw a bunch of shiny Pokemon at people and they'll get excited and not think about how there's a move with 100% burn chance that also has high base power or only 18 ride Pokemon pulled from a dex of 153. Yes there's plenty larger size Pokemon left that they could've utilized for that. Hell, there's only like 2 you can surf on and 1 of the 2 is the traditional Lapras. That must mean they're all quality riding animations at least right? Nope, your partner Pokemon stays magically glued to your head for the majority of them. Oh, and if you get too close to any object for even a second, the Pokemon fly back into their ball jarringly and reappear just as jarringly once you have enough clearance.

    I don't get the hate and I don't get the "it is not a real Pokemon game" or "only for casuals".

    Hopefully at least one of my points has shed some light on that. Also, by design the game is to get the casual mobile GO player crowd into the core series while also existing for younger fans to play coop with their parents, hence yes this was made for casuals, but casual doesn't necessarily have to be uttered with a negative tone or connotations in mind. Just a shame that even as a casual experience, rather than balancing it to be really easy, they seemed to just forego spending time trying to balance it at all.

    hate from self proclaimed "oldschool / hardcore" fans. So maybe I'm not a "true" fan? Man... I'm so frustrated with this part of the close minded fandom culture.

    You recognized how awfully broken Candy and Awakening Values are, so that's at least more than I can say I've heard certain others bring up about the game, who seem to not care about any of the flaws because "they're having fun with it" or ones who will straight up argue that those aren't flaws but just the way the game was designed, to which I would counter that this game's design is a lack of thoughtful design. This game makes choices that are opposite of proper game design to heavily stack everything in the player's favor at all times without ever really challenging them in the least, which I frankly find insulting to their intelligence. Yes, these days gamers are spoiled for choice and will often bail to the next thing if a game doesn't explicitly cater to all their "needs" and wants constantly, but I just am baffled by people's ability to find fun in something amounting to a virtual tour through Kanto, a mostly unchanged region many are already familiar with. One only possessing some semifancy new graphics, yet still even lacking polish even in that department with shoddy transitions, lack of facial expressions to convey emotion on NPCs outside the center of the story, limited offerings in new animations with many reused from SuMo and even within the same game, and not even a Day / Night cycle. Sure, Yellow didn't have it, but it sure would've been nice to finally see Kanto in this graphical "glory" at night. If visuals is going to be one of the few things I can point to that seems mostly positive, at least give me that. But it didn't.

    Please at least try it yourself and stay as open minded as possible while doing it.

    So I tried. I tried, and I'm just not into it what I found, for lots of reasons. Lots and lots and lots of reasons. I can accept that this game just isn't for me and that's fine, but after SuMo and now this, I am seriously concerned for the future of the core series of this franchise, and I am doubting they're ever going to get back to what made me fall in love with Pokemon and what I enjoy about the games, especially when people are actually buying and praising this. Why would GameFreak ever put effort into making another game, when they can just not balance anything and people eat it up?



  • @mbun said in Pokémon Let's Go, Pikachu! & Let's Go, Eevee! (Switch):

    This game makes choices that are opposite of proper game design to heavily stack everything in the player's favor at all times without ever really challenging them in the least, which I frankly find insulting to their intelligence.

    If I understand your post correctly, your reasoning boils down to this essential core argument. It is not challenging enough.

    Isn't that some distorted perception of the past? Never ever where Pokemon Core Titles challenging. Since the very first generation you could easily steamroll through 99% of all encounters with your overleveled starter and some decent secondary pokemon with just some exceptions in the end- and postgame. Yeah, you could just not overlevel your pokemon and this way artificially create some challenge in the game, but you can do that as well in Pokemon Let's Go.

    The challenge has always been in multiplayer with fights against real humans and their well trained pokemon, but never in singleplayer.

    The only challenge in singleplayer arose because the early games didn't explain their gameplay mechanics well, hid information from the player and because these games were completely new without todays internet as collaboration tool and information source. Sure Sun & Moon overdid it with hand holding and mouthfeeding every mechanic, but Let's Go so far strikes a good balance. Is Pokemon Lets Go on the "easy-scale" somewhat more easy? Sure, but Pokemon Lets Go is designed as Gatewaygame so I don't have a problem with that. Many of the (long needed) convenience features, I want also in future core titles. There are other ways to achieve some risk / reward and more challenge (mostly notable: make trainer fights more challenging with 6 pokemons right from the start). And lastly: nobody can recreate your very first personal experience with pokemon. That is long gone, since you now played many of these games.

    If "challenge (in singleplayer)" is the reason you fell in love with pokemon, than you must have played different games than me. I fell for pokemon because of completely different reasons. But ok, tastes and perception is different. If you want real challenge in singleplayer, than lets go is indead the wrong game for you. That doesn't make the game necessarily bad. It is just not for you. Personally I see some flaws and room for improvements in Let's Go like in every other game in existence, but I still love the game (including a lot of the changes) and are now looking somewhat optimistic forward to where the franchise is going.



  • Just wanna say, I'm really enjoying these conversations about controversial games like this and Fallout 76, it's refreshing to read respectful disagreeing opinions!

    @Mbun What you're describing is basically every JRPG's loop, go through many successive, but manageable, fights that wear you down until you reach the real challenge, the boss at the end of the dungeon. Good, modern JRPGs manage to make even those simple encounters challenging and not let you just spam the attack command (the Bravely series, Octopath Traveler for example did that really well). The older Pokemon games did have this loop, but never in a refined way, enemies were always dumb and never stood a chance.

    I too would love the series to present me with encounters that always keep you on your toes, enemies that adapt to your Pokemon's type, Trainers with complex strategies similar to those used by PvP players that make you think hard about your team's composition, etc. There's so much potential in this combat system, it's a shame they seem to leave it all to PvP to make the most of it. The singleplayer campaign has always been about introducing you to a new region, new Pokemon and learning the ropes.

    Now would they lose too many players if they made that change? Hard to tell, I imagine they could still lure in the casuals with fancy graphics and cool adverts and by the time they realize the game is actually challenging, too late, Game Freak's got your money!

    You know what would be perfect? A "Pokemon Tactics" game that would be all about strategic fights. That's the dream.



  • @axel said in Pokémon Let's Go, Pikachu! & Let's Go, Eevee! (Switch):

    A "Pokemon Tactics" game that would be all about strategic fights. That's the dream.

    Have you tried Pokemon Conquest? I wasn't a huge fan but it's similar to what you're suggesting.



  • @naltmank No but I just checked it out, looks interesting! It will be hard to get my hands on it now though, don't even have a DS anymore! A sequel to that on Switch would be welcome!



  • @guthwulf said:

    If I understand your post correctly, your reasoning boils down to this essential core argument. It is not challenging enough.

    No. The game can be easy, just be a balanced kind of easy. BW2 had a Challenge Mode and an Easy Mode. You can do Easy Mode without ripping apart the mechanics of Pokemon that keep it fair and balanced to do so.

    Isn't that some distorted perception of the past? Never ever where Pokemon Core Titles challenging.

    No. You actually had to expend some effort before to catch stronger Pokemon with tougher capture rates and to work your way through the dungeons to new areas.

    Since the very first generation you could easily steamroll through 99% of all encounters with your overleveled starter
    overleveled starter

    No. Then don't overlevel your starter. All you're explaining is grinding more than you need to and the game expects you to so you can bypass the strategic aspects of battling. It is your choice if you'd rather grind up to make every fight impossible to lose, but you're mistaken in assuming the games were designed for this to be the intended action for the player to take, rather than putting yourself on an even playing field with your opponents. Also, even if a player did choose to win by grinding it out, they still had to put the time into grinding their Pokemon up to higher levels to easily defeat opponents. There's still effort being applied there, just in earning brute force over thinking strategically. Play how you wanna play, but the games were designed so you could brute force fights if you were struggling to beat them at proper levels, not for you to skip straight to the brute forcing part to begin with.

    Yeah, you could just not overlevel your pokemon and this way artificially create some challenge in the game, but you can do that as well in Pokemon Let's Go.

    No. Grinding it out was never the intended way to tackle encounters. It isn't artificially creating challenge to not run around in grass for ages before the next tough fight and grind all your Pokemon even higher level than the Pokemon present in the grass through repeatedly knocking them out. The games are designed so you should never be required to do this, aside from a handful of special postgame fights, and even in the case of those, you only have to grind to about the level of the fight, not way above it! If the only way you can win Pokemon battles is overleveling your starter to blow through fights, then that's on you, but you have a twisted perception of the games to think this is what the devs are intending you to do. No wonder you enjoy these games if that's how you played Pokemon before and thought there was no other way to beat them.

    The challenge has always been in multiplayer with fights against real humans and their well trained pokemon, but never in singleplayer.

    No. On top of what we're already gone into, Battle Frontier and other postgame facilities and fights of the past say hello. They straight up say in interviews these were designed for challenging the player, so don't try to deny it now or say something like "those only require you to grind breeding Pokemon for better stats and abilities" or whatever other twisted thing you'd come up with.

    The only challenge in singleplayer arose because the early games didn't explain their gameplay mechanics well, hid information from the player and because these games were completely new without todays internet as collaboration tool and information source.

    No. Sure, how much of a broken mess Gen 1 was, with it often implying the opposite of what was true, and the lack of internet or a strategy guide definitely increased the difficulty and made the players rely more on exchanging information and strategy with friends, but the games still were programmed with things like type effectiveness that added incentive to learning Pokemon types and which ones were strong against others over just grinding your starter Pokemon 10 levels over every encounter you were facing and spamming Flamethrower over and over. If that was the intention, like Pokemon GO, there wouldn't have ever even been types to begin with. The games from the very beginning with the Starter type triangle are designed to teach you this, and your rival picking a Pokemon super effective against the starter you chose is supposed to make you go out and catch other Pokemon to make up for that. Besides, all that said about the old games, I'm not even saying "Why can't everything be challenging like Gen 1!" I'm talking about the way Gen 5 was still challenging, which has nothing to do with the points you're trying to use as excuses for the games being challenging.

    Sure Sun & Moon overdid it with hand holding and mouthfeeding every mechanic, but Let's Go so far strikes a good balance.

    No. How is being able to add 200 to every Pokemon's stat at any level, to the point where a level 5 Pokemon can beat a level 65 Pokemon and your starter having beefed up stats and learning high power moves with 100% status chance or recovery attached that make every win absolutely free a good balance?

    Is Pokemon Lets Go on the "easy-scale" somewhat more easy? Sure, but Pokemon Lets Go is designed as Gatewaygame so I don't have a problem with that.

    No. It isn't designed to be easy though. Again, BW2 had an easy mode, where opponent's had lower level Pokemon and would make worse decisions in battle. Rather than doing any form of that, they've ripped apart systems that used to exist for the sake of balance to just let the players go wild with no attempt to wrangle it into any sense of challenge whatsoever. You can still have an easy challenge, but this just has no challenge at all.

    Many of the (long needed) convenience features, I want also in future core titles.

    No I'm fine with ditching EVs. Those were always poorly explained and very tedious to tap into, but AVs isn't the replacement we need for them as there's no balance whatsoever to them. I really don't think you need to carry your Pokemon Box with you at all times. The small gain of not having to visit a PC to change Pokemon isn't worth everything else it borks in the process. Maybe if we still had to deal with all kinds of HMs I'd be more willing to accept it as a way around being forced to carry Pokemon around just for that, but we've already solved that in other ways, so it isn't needed. If GameFreak wants to cut a compromise between the two, maybe they can start setting up PCs in routes between towns like how they set up NPCs who can heal your Pokemon on long routes between towns. That way they could still design routes with an intended amount of pushback required to traverse through them.

    There are other ways to achieve some risk / reward and more challenge (mostly notable: make trainer fights more challenging with 6 pokemons right from the start).

    No, every trainer is not supposed to be on equal footing. The Pokemon a trainer has is part of their personality and their place building the larger world of Pokemon we're exploring. They're not all supposed to be as special as the player. Some are just starting off. Some are worse trainers than others. Some are just adventuring with their favorites. Some were given specific Pokemon through various circumstances. Some are just trying to train specific Pokemon for specific goals. The games have actually been getting better at balancing this character and lore building with enjoyable battles for the player to tackle through having things like Ace Trainers on most the routes, so besides all the NPCs that exist to flesh out the world as a more realistic living place, you also get at least one entertaining battle per route, or would if Let's Go wasn't so stacked in your favor.

    And lastly: nobody can recreate your very first personal experience with pokemon. That is long gone, since you now played many of these games.

    No, you seem to misunderstand me. I'm not looking at this game as not measuring up to the first time I played the Kanto games. Hell, that first time wasn't even particularly special besides the fond memories of discovering everything fresh and talking with friends about it. I played Red first, but it wasn't until Yellow where I was able to catch Wild Farfetch'd that I really was clicking into the fun of Pokemon, and it wasn't until Gen 2 Johto where I really fell head over heels for it. Gen 2 is where most of my nostalgia would stem from since that was the Golden Age of Pokemon where it was this massive multimedia phenomenon that you couldn't escape. But like you said, I've played so many of the games now, including the Gen 2 Johto remakes, and those are the games I was invested in from a nostalgic standpoint. Thankfully they turned out to be fantastic games aside from some subpar music remixes and the worst Safari Zone of the franchise, but that was back all the way at the tail end of Gen 4. It is almost Gen 8 now, and the Gen 2 remakes aren't even my favorite games anymore, in lots of ways they're goodbyes to the origins of Pokemon, final love letters to Pixel Pokemon and such as we move on to the 3D models and more complex environments and angles we have now. I've seen the mainline Pokemon series evolve and get even better than it was then during Gens 5 and 6. But along with that evolution, I'm seeing decay and devolution in the directions of Gen 7 and these games in particular. I'm not saying this from a nostalgia standpoint, but rather from a standpoint of comparing mechanics, game features, and things that used to exist for specific balance reasons getting crumbled to dust as we transition Pokemon between games and generations of audience enjoying them.

    If "challenge (in singleplayer)" is the reason you fell in love with pokemon, than you must have played different games than me.

    No, well I never overleveled my starter to force my way through encounters, so maybe there's some truth to us effectively having been playing different games.

    I fell for pokemon because of completely different reasons.

    No obviously I fell for Pokemon primarily for the Pokemon themselves, but when every battle is free it takes away from the joy of raising them to be strong enough to get through those battles to begin with. I also fell for the sense of exploration, but that's instead a problem I have with SuMo, not Let's Go, which just reuses Kanto's region design, which has plenty of good exploration. I've just already explored it, multiple times even, and Let's Go decided not to add anything new to explore in Kanto, like how Fire Red / Leaf Green had the Sevii Islands to explore. I'm not even upset about that though. Obviously the games are for people who haven't explored Kanto or just want to see how it has been updated, so while that isn't for me it also doesn't bother me. Just doesn't offer anything to me as a player either.

    If you want real challenge in singleplayer, than lets go is indead the wrong game for you. That doesn't make the game necessarily bad. It is just not for you.

    No, I still argue that the ways in which it completely snuffs out any sense of challenge is bad for everyone, especially if the games sell so well that GameFreak learns they don't need to actually expend effort balancing future games, because people are fine with steamrolling through everything. I worry about Let's Go from a perspective of where it will take the franchise next, as GameFreak learns lessons from every game they make and how they are perceived. People complained at the time about the story in Gens 5 and 6, so GameFreak gave up on trying to make a good story and instead just showered people in cutscenes in Gen 7. People complained about having to sit through those cutscenes, so GameFreak added a Cutscene Skip feature to Let's Go. They're always learning, but unfortunately people having different tastes often leads to them learning the wrong lessons it seems. They're never going to make everyone happy sure, even if they do pull off the series for hardcore fans and the series for casual fans, but complaining very loudly is all the longterm fans invested in the franchise can do to keep GameFreak aware of where they stand on the directions it is being pulled down. Sadly I fear sales numbers, voting with your wallet, is starting to overpower this feedback, to the point where they're shredding core game design to appease the widest audience possible. That's even more reason to be vocal about the changes though, to inform as many people as possible why these things that sound good on paper are actually really bad decisions and why this game shouldn't be getting supported as much as it is, so GameFreak can once again realize mistakes and course correct in better ways that can please a larger portion of the audience who wants to enjoy these games as a whole.

    @Axel said:

    What you're describing is basically every JRPG's loop, go through many successive, but manageable, fights that wear you down until you reach the real challenge, the boss at the end of the dungeon.

    Yep, that's exactly what I mean, and as much as people hate random encounters, it is a ways of keeping up the pressure of hostile areas as you traverse them. Maybe the new system of overworld spawning could work too, but I think at the very least you'd need some Species of Pokemon to make attempts to chase you down for a fight.

    Good, modern JRPGs manage to make even those simple encounters challenging and not let you just spam the attack command (the Bravely series, Octopath Traveler for example did that really well). The older Pokemon games did have this loop, but never in a refined way, enemies were always dumb and never stood a chance.

    Yea, but it is tough when Pokemon is also building a larger living world at the same time with it's NPC Trainers. Like mentioned earlier in my post, they've been getting better with at least including some on par challenging encounters per route alongside all the ones just meant to slowly wear you down. The only things I can really think of that they could do to improve this is to level gate the player or enlist a much harsher exp formula, but I don't ask for either of these things because some people genuinely enjoy overleveling and steamrolling through everything. Play how you wanna play. It is only a problem when, like above, people mistake that for the intended way to beat the games. I guess you could take a second crack at the difficulty options BW2 possessed, which mostly just level boosted or nerfed the Pokemon of trainers, but that triples the balance work GameFreak has to do, so it isn't ideal. On top of that, some players might just feel this makes the games grindier, since that's the only way they can think to beat those encounters. It isn't the same as the games you listed where you can introduce enemies with very specific weaknesses and patterns you need to follow to beat them, because every character is something the player can use as well, and the game has to remain accessible for a much wider audience than the games you listed.

    I too would love the series to present me with encounters that always keep you on your toes, enemies that adapt to your Pokemon's type, Trainers with complex strategies similar to those used by PvP players that make you think hard about your team's composition, etc.

    After the Nintendo fiasco with roms, they're hard to find, but people have made romhacks like that. It'd be fun to see Nintendo's crack at it, but those usually go so far to the point where they're frustrating, so I'm fine with them just having things like Whitney's Miltank where you do have to stop and think if you don't have the right Pokemon, but it isn't an ordeal to overcome.

    The singleplayer campaign has always been about introducing you to a new region, new Pokemon and learning the ropes.

    True, but there's always been a balance to it as well. You've always had to risk pushing on when your Pokemon are banged up to try and get to the next town, spend the time turning back to recover, or use up your limited resources to push on in a safer manner. You've always had to choose between a move that does a guaranteed burn or a move with a higher base power that only has the chance of inflicting a burn. You've always had to decide whether to take chances whittling a wild Pokemon's hp down a little more so you can capture them easier or whether to use more balls catching them at a higher hp so you don't risk accidentally knocking them out. You've always had to lock in a team of six Pokemon when you step into the Elite Four and do your best to keep them alive through the end. You still were being challenged. There were just options present so you could play it different ways and make different decisions that carried different difficulties with them, so it could be easy if you were willing to take the time and effort to make it easy. It wasn't free.

    Now would they lose too many players if they made that change? Hard to tell, I imagine they could still lure in the casuals with fancy graphics and cool adverts and by the time they realize the game is actually challenging, too late, Game Freak's got your money!

    Pokemon: Prepare to Die Edition. There's definitely an audience for it, but that's not the direction I want the franchise to go either, least not fully. I'm fine with it being a difficulty option or such. That'd be pretty sweet. I also want kids to be able to enjoy the games though, just not in a manner that treats them as idiots who can't take care of themselves at all.

    You know what would be perfect? A "Pokemon Tactics" game that would be all about strategic fights. That's the dream.

    Like @naltmank already said, Conquest sounds like exactly what you're describing. I played maybe half of it, and it is pretty fun, even if it is just a Pokemon skin on Nobunaga's Ambition or whatever. Skins on games can be fun though. I am a huge advocate of the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon series, and that's just a skin on other old Mystery Dungeon games, but at the same time most of them are so well made that they end up being the best versions of the genre. They aren't as traditional strategy as Conquest is, but there's definitely tactical thinking heavily involved as you pick apart and explore the hostile dungeons you crawl through, so that's maybe something else worth checking out. I'd recommend either Explorers of Sky which is still available on Wii U Virtual Console today or the 3DS game Super Mystery Dungeon if you want an entry point for the series. Avoid the 3DS game Gates to Infinity. Hopefully we'll get a Switch entry eventually, but no word of anything yet sadly.



  • @mbun said in Pokémon Let's Go, Pikachu! & Let's Go, Eevee! (Switch):

    BW2 had a Challenge Mode and an Easy Mode. You can do Easy Mode without ripping apart the mechanics of Pokemon that keep it fair and balanced to do so.

    BW2 is a later gen than Pokemon Yellow which Pokemon Let's Go is a Remake of. And they didn't "rip apart the mechanics of Pokemon". The mechanics are still there at the level of Pokemon Yellow with some additions from later gens and some replacements. I would have also liked Abilities, Held Items and Breeding in Pokemon Let's Go. But many of these added systems also make later gens convoluted to a point where they loose accessibility for new or younger player. Since Let's Go is intended as gateway game, streamlining and ease of play is nothing bad. Yeah, an optional "Challenge Mode" would be great for veteran players... but its abscence doesn't hinder my enjoyment with the game. And if you want to see it that way: candy and coop are the "easy mode".

    @mbun said in Pokémon Let's Go, Pikachu! & Let's Go, Eevee! (Switch):

    You actually had to expend some effort before to catch stronger Pokemon with tougher capture rates and to work your way through the dungeons to new areas.

    And you also have to expend some effort into capturing stronger Pokemon in Let's Go (just in a different way). I agree with the point, that dungeons should have more challenge and risk/reward. But you could realize that while still keeping the pokebox in your inventory going into the next core title. And again... let's go is intended as easier gateway game.

    @mbun said in Pokémon Let's Go, Pikachu! & Let's Go, Eevee! (Switch):

    Then don't overlevel your starter. All you're explaining is grinding more than you need to and the game expects you to so you can bypass the strategic aspects of battling. It is your choice if you'd rather grind up to make every fight impossible to lose, but you're mistaken in assuming the games were designed for this to be the intended action for the player to take, rather than putting yourself on an even playing field with your opponents.

    And you can do the exact same thing in Pokemon Let's Go, putting yourself on an even playing field with yout opponents. Don't feed them candy, don't overlevel them and there you go... I don't see the difference. Btw. you really had to work hard and show some discipline, to not accidently overlevel your pokemon in old titles. There is no "run around in grass for ages". Same with Pokemon Let's Go. It is a twisted perception to me, to say that the old games where "designed" to be played a specific strategic way although at the same time offering the possibility to brute force your way through the game. It offered similar alternate ways (more strategic or more brute force) like Let's Go. I don't argue, that Let's Go overall is easier than the old games (since it is a gateway game), but there is no fundamental difference in the "intend" or "design". Btw. I played the games always more strategic and had fun experimenting with different combinations and usually avoided overleveling. That fun is still there in Let's Go.

    @mbun said in Pokémon Let's Go, Pikachu! & Let's Go, Eevee! (Switch):

    Every trainer is not supposed to be on equal footing. The Pokemon a trainer has is part of their personality and their place building the larger world of Pokemon we're exploring. They're not all supposed to be as special as the player. Some are just starting off. Some are worse trainers than others. Some are just adventuring with their favorites. Some were given specific Pokemon through various circumstances. Some are just trying to train specific Pokemon for specific goals.

    Agreed. I never said something against that. I just want some more challenging trainer fights in early and mid game. Make them optional if necessary. Pokemon Let's Go tries that with these special coach trainers (or whatever these were called) along the way, but these are still to easy and don't use a full party. At least there is more of an effort here, than in Sun & Moon. And also gym battles could maybe scale to your party level, to force some more strategic fights? You could make that optional as well.

    @mbun said in Pokémon Let's Go, Pikachu! & Let's Go, Eevee! (Switch):

    On top of what we're already gone into, Battle Frontier and other postgame facilities and fights of the past say hello. They straight up say in interviews these were designed for challenging the player

    Exactly like in Let's Go. The elite four and the 151 master trainers in postgame are designed for challenging the player. You can argue if they achieved that goal according to your taste, but the intention is the same.

    All in all i think we have to agree to disagree on this topic. I respect your opinion but I see things completely differently.



  • @guthwulf said:

    BW2 is a later gen than Pokemon Yellow which Pokemon Let's Go is a Remake of.

    Doesn't matter. We're not living back in 1998. Remake or not, it is a modern Pokemon game, and the problems it possesses don't even really stem from it being a modern Pokemon game or not anyways.

    And they didn't "rip apart the mechanics of Pokemon".

    No fighting wild Pokemon. Carry your PC Box around with you. EVs, which were archaic sure but at least were balanced so you had to choose how to allocate them, replaced with a system that extremely overpowers anything it touches. Unbalanced moves people have literally called "win buttons".

    I would have also liked Abilities, Held Items and Breeding in Pokemon Let's Go.

    Not asking for that, although it is weird we have Mega Evolutions without Held Items, which is another aspect of unbalance. You used to have to sacrifice your Hold Item slot for a Mega Stone to achieve Mega Evolution. Breeding isn't needed at all in Let's Go, since you can use combo chaining to force encounters with Pokemon with max IVs, and the whole point of the game is to capture lots and lots of Pokemon. Abilities they did actually taken into consideration since there's an NPC you can pay to force all the natures of the Pokemon you encounter to a specific one you want for a limited time, which is there to replace Synchronize. I wish they had considerations like that for everything else.

    But many of these added systems also make later gens convoluted to a point where they loose accessibility for new or younger player.

    Day / Night would be too confusing for players? Even if it was just an aesthetic change?

    Yeah, an optional "Challenge Mode" would be great for veteran players... but its abscence doesn't hinder my enjoyment with the game.

    Not asking for that in Let's Go. My point with bringing that stuff up was that Easy Mode has been done before and done without breaking apart the core balance of Pokemon to accommodate a more accessible experience.

    And if you want to see it that way: candy and coop are the "easy mode".

    Coop is great. Coop is there for young kids to play with their parents, and that's one of the very good additions Let's Go adds. I'm not upset at all that there's Coop that makes the game easier if you use it. Candy on the other hand, is the replacement for EVs in this game, and I've already gone into how absolutely busted it is. You even admitted it was busted and needs tweaking if they ever plan to use it again. They could've balanced it, but they didn't, and I don't know why you're giving them a free pass on that. There's a middle ground that still makes the game easier for new players without being able to add 200 to every Pokemon's stat with a level 5 Pokemon being able to easily beat a level 65 Pokemon.

    And you also have to expend some effort into capturing stronger Pokemon in Let's Go (just in a different way)

    How? You can't weaken them. You can toss berries at them to make them move less, and like always you can throw slightly stronger balls at them, but that's as far as the depth goes, and it still mostly comes down to complete RNG whether you capture them or they again RNG choose to just run away, even if you just gave them a berry. Not to mention that the actual motion controls involved in catching them is half-baked, and they aren't as responsive as they need to be for the thing you're going to do almost the entire time you're playing the game. The most "strategic" thing you can do to increase your success rate of capturing Pokemon in Let's Go is to undock your Switch, because catching stuff in Handheld Mode is effectively free since you don't have to wrangle the motion controls and can just press a button after lining them up.

    I agree with the point, that dungeons should have more challenge and risk/reward. But you could realize that while still keeping the pokebox in your inventory going into the next core title.

    I'd like to hear your ideas. Aside from restricting it at times, which would be the same as it used to be, I can't think of how you'd possibly balance that. Also, from a lore standpoint, trainers were only ever supposed to be able to carry six Pokemon around with them, but having your Box with you means effectively you have all your Pokemon with you at all times. Seems dangerous when the Pokemon World is full of evil teams who would misuse this.

    And you can do the exact same thing in Pokemon Let's Go, putting yourself on an even playing field with yout opponents. Don't feed them candy, don't overlevel them and there you go... I don't see the difference.

    No, because the game gives you Candy. Not overleveling them sure, because the game doesn't push you to overlevel them outside the mandatory EXP Share, but the game is constantly giving you that Candy to use even without sending extra Pokemon to Oak for more. You get it for beating trainers and for catching Pokemon. But even then, let's ignore the Candy for a second. Unlike Amie, this game is designed for you to constantly respond to prompts in the bottom left where you spend time with your partner Pokemon bonding. Well this bonding influences the Pokemon's Friendship level. In past games, all this meant was determining the strength of the moves Return or Frustration as well as triggering evolution for some Pokemon lines after it passed a threshold. In Let's Go, Friendship boosts your Pokemon's stats by up to 10% when maxed out. That alone isn't bad, but it gets compounded with mixed with your partner Pokemon also being counted as special forms of the Pokemon they represent which come with perfect IVs and beefed up stats. This wasn't needed for the original Pokemon Yellow. Even all that wouldn't go "too far" in my eyes, but then they give your Partner Pokemon super busted brand new moves that seem to only exist for these games with names like Baddy Bad that shatter whatever semblance of a fair fight that was still remaining when no other Pokemon in the game has access to anything even remotely close to that powerful. That with all the stats behind it, plus if the person has been using the Candy they're doled out, just come together to make the player unstoppable, unless they box their starter Pokemon, but that still doesn't solve the Candy issue and the starters are most of the point to playing this to begin with. They're afraid to let players ever be at any risk of losing a fight.

    Btw. you really had to work hard and show some discipline, to not accidently overlevel your pokemon in old titles.

    I just catch the new Pokemon on new routes and fight the trainers while swapping my Pokemon around so they level up equally, instead of feeding everything to my starter. That's not working hard at all.

    There is no "run around in grass for ages".

    Tell that to Brandon Jones. Did you not watch that series Brandon and Kyle did when Jones played Pokemon for the first time and then again in SuMo? I'm not shaming though. Brandon loves grinding in RPGs, so he can play how he wants to play. He understands though that grinding in the grass for hours isn't what the game expects of him.

    Same with Pokemon Let's Go.

    You're unable to traditionally grind in Let's Go, although you could grind through capturing a ton of Pokemon, but nobody needs to because just catching new Pokemon and fighting the trainers already levels you up so fast with the mandatory, always on EXP Share that you're always matched to or above the level of the trainers you're facing, unless you constantly are switching Pokemon out for others and catching hardly any.

    It is a twisted perception to me, to say that the old games where "designed" to be played a specific strategic way although at the same time offering the possibility to brute force your way through the game.

    Well, it never was a CP-only numbers game of butting heads like Pokemon GO. There was balanced movesets to choose from and type effectiveness to tap into. That implies they expected most players to take advantage of that stuff.

    there is no fundamental difference in the "intend" or "design" (in Let's Go)

    The difference is there's no need to choose effective moves or strategize when no matter what move you pick you one-shot whatever opponent you're up against because of extremely bloated stats, extremely fast forced leveling, extremely broken move options, etc. It's free. Everything is free. Nothing is earned. Pika Pi! Eevee Vee!

    That fun is still there in Let's Go.

    You have to go so far out of your way to get anything remotely close to that, and even then you're stuck with things like an EXP Share you can't turn off, even though Treehouse lied to us saying you would be able to, because GameFreak last minute decided to remove it from your Items menu to force the player to always play with it active.

    I just want some more challenging trainer fights in early and mid game. Make them optional if necessary. Pokemon Let's Go tries that with these special coach trainers (or whatever these were called) along the way, but these are still to easy and don't use a full party. At least there is more of an effort here, than in Sun & Moon.

    Maybe if there were optional routes with harder trainers crowding them but nicer Pokemon to catch behind them? We can't have that though if the games stick to what SuMo was like with forcing everyone down the same routes in order with no deviation allowed. Something similar to those coach trainers were actually in SuMo too. I think you had to beat every other Trainer on a route before you could face them in SuMo if I remember right. I'll agree with you that those should definitely have a full party since they're extra.

    Exactly like in Let's Go. The elite four

    Elite Four isn't postgame though. That's the final challenge before becoming the Champion, and I've already gone into how always having the Pokemon Box with you trivializes them as a challenge.

    and the 151 master trainers in postgame are designed for challenging the player

    Except you can beat the level 65-70 Pokemon the Master Trainers possess with the lowest level possible Pokemon you can have easily because of how incredibly broken the Candy and Awakened Value system is. Also, even if you couldn't. That's a terrible idea for a postgame. That's just a massive grindfest of needing to grind every single Pokemon to level 65-70 to even compete. At the very least, it should be more like wifi battles where you could set both competitors to level 50 for even footing, making it more about the movesets you use, but it is still kinda dumb when everything is 1v1 with the same Pokemon, which isn't where Pokemon shines at all. Oh also, people have datamined those trainers, and many of them possess Pokemon with only 2-3 moves, not even a full 4. Challenge? Master Trainers? What a joke.

    You can argue if they achieved that goal according to your taste, but the intention is the same.

    It isn't the same intention, because it is clearly a thing that took zero effort to throw in to artificially inflate the amount of playtime you can get out of the game by inducing a ton of grind to overcome. Kanto is pretty quick to beat when you know what you're doing, so they clearly threw that in so people wouldn't beat the game in six hours and be upset there's nothing else to do.

    All in all i think we have to agree to disagree on this topic. I respect your opinion but I see things completely differently.

    Sure. It just really feels from my perspective like you're ignoring many problems or sweeping things under the rug, because you enjoy the other things the game is doing or just how comfy it is in general. Feel free to keep responding to me though. As heated as I'll get about Pokemon and where this could take the franchise, I won't hold any grudges against you personally for disagreeing with me about the finer points of the games.



  • @mbun said in Pokémon Let's Go, Pikachu! & Let's Go, Eevee! (Switch):

    I'd like to hear your ideas [regarding pokebox and dungeons].

    Simple change: You don't have a pokebox in your bag. In your bag is just a "wireless communication and teleportation device" which connects to a pokemon storage professor oak has for you in his lab. Give it a fancy name. Usual the functionality is exactly like now in Let's Go. In special "danger zones" (like dungeons, dense forests etc.) the teleport doesn't work because of "atmospheric interference" or some other excuse. In these you only have basic communication with your box (aka sorting, managing, releasing pokemon to oak for candy, renaming...) but you are limited to your party because teleport of Pokemon from your storage to your location doesn't work.

    @mbun said in Pokémon Let's Go, Pikachu! & Let's Go, Eevee! (Switch):

    Sure. It just really feels from my perspective like you're ignoring many problems or sweeping things under the rug, because you enjoy the other things the game is doing or just how comfy it is in general. Feel free to keep responding to me though. As heated as I'll get about Pokemon and where this could take the franchise, I won't hold any grudges against you personally for disagreeing with me about the finer points of the games.

    Sure. It just really feels from my perspective like you're blowing the problems way out of proportions and are purposely missunderstanding my arguments or shorten / twisting my words to fit your narrative. I acknowledged enough problems with Let's Go myself and explained, why most of them don't bother me personally. Disagreeing with you on the other points doesn't mean that I "ignore problems" or "sweep them under the rug". It just means, I don't see them as problems or have a different take on them.

    But I think at this point we have exchanged every important argument between us and every further discussion will just repeat the same arguments in other words. I could not convince you and you could not convince me.

    So lets just agree to disagree on Pokemon Let's Go.



  • Some good news around Pokemon Let's Go Sales:

    According to the official twitter tweet, Pokemon Let's Go has sold 3 million copies in its first week.

    It now holds the record for the best-selling first week for any Switch title since the console launched, placing Pokémon Let's Go ahead of best-sellers such as Super Mario Odyssey and launch title The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild. It doesn't reach the first week sales from Pokemon Sun & Moon on 3DS in its first week, but the Switch has still a much smaller install base than the 3DS (or the gameboy for the older titles). So these numbers are not exactly comparable.

    We will see how long this record holds with Super Smash Bros. Ultimate just around the corner, but I'm still happy that Pokemon Let's Go seems to be a success despite the mixed reactions from some old fans. Even the metacritic user score now slowly but steady rises (after the initial review bombing on release day), since users now had time to actually play the game.

    Pokemon Let's Go also boosted the sales in Japan for the Switch itself from previous around 50.000 units to 200,850 units in this week. That means that the Switch amounted to over 88% of console hardware sales in Japan during the release week of Pokémon: Let’s Go (for comparison: PlayStation 4: 8,922 units, PlayStation 4 Pro: 8,867 units)



  • @guthwulf said:

    Even the metacritic user score now slowly but steady rises (after the initial review bombing on release day)

    People made Reddit posts to positive bomb it to raise the user score. Just people bombing it both ways.

    Also worth noting Amazon Japan disabled reviews on the product, because so many Japanese people were leaving negative reviews on it.



  • @mbun said in Pokémon Let's Go, Pikachu! & Let's Go, Eevee! (Switch):

    @guthwulf said:

    Even the metacritic user score now slowly but steady rises (after the initial review bombing on release day)

    People made Reddit posts to positive bomb it to raise the user score. Just people bombing it both ways.

    Also worth noting Amazon Japan disabled reviews on the product, because so many Japanese people were leaving negative reviews on it.

    Review Bombing is either way dumb and childish. But the initial review bombing (on release day without players having even enough time to play the game) was overwhelming negative (Metacritic Userscore: 3.x). And yeah... that might provoke other idiots who try to counter that review bombing with their own review bombing. Sadly, that is more and more part of todays fandom & shitstorm culture under hardcore fans. The viewpoint of an average player and the few constructive reviews usually don't get recognized because of that bs. But all that doesn't negate the success, Pokemon Let's Go had with sales so far.



  • @guthwulf said:

    But all that doesn't negate the success, Pokemon Let's Go had with sales so far.

    I agree with everything else you said, but cmon. It is the first mainline Pokemon game on the Nintendo Switch. It was guaranteed to sell extremely well.

    Anyways, here's our hint at where Gen 8 will likely take place:
    unknown map
    closeup of map

    There's all kinds of mixed speculation right now for what that is supposed to represent, so I won't throw out any specific places, just that this likely is related to Gen 8's region as GameFreak has done stuff like this before to tease future games like this Alola poster in ORAS:

    Alola ORAS



  • My little brother hinted that my parents may have gotten me this game for Birthday or Christmas. At first I didn’t think anything of it, but then I thought about how this has actually gone full circle. When I was maybe 5 or 6 years old, either 1998 or 1999, my parents got me a Gameboy Color and Pokémon Blue for my birthday (which is Xmas Eve). It basically sparked my love of gaming.

    Now I’ll be turning 24 and getting the remade version of Blue/Red/Yellow basically 19 years later. That’s so trippy when I think about it.

    The game seems kinda easy and I’m not big on the catch everything that moves but it seems like I might enjoy this game after all based on gameplay I’ve seen. I have an itch to play Blue on my N64 or Ruby on my Gameboy Advanced SP because Pokémon is so hot right now.





  • I need help. How in gods name do I make another Pokémon the first in my fighting order when I start a battle?

    It is always Eevee who fights first, even when I put a different one ahead in the party screen but Eevee still starts the battle first.

    EDIT: I must not have hit ENTER when I meddled with the party order. It works when I tried it again.


    ALSO - can my Metapod not learn attacks through TM? I swear back on Pokemon Blue, I used to attack with my Metapod and he wouldn't evolve. I could use Harden and Tackle. I can't seem to teach my Metapod any TMs. One of my favourite things to do was to make a strong Metapod in Pokemon.



  • @dipset according to bulbapedia Metapod can only learn one move (Harden) and Tackle from Caterpie, and after doings some research in Gen7 Caterpie learns bug bite at level 9 but in Let's go Caterpie doesn't learn any moves.