Cyberpunk 2077 (XBO/PS4/PC)
ffff0 last edited by
@bard91 I was thinking about this today. Looks like PC market isn't big enough to support PC-only games of such scale, so developers must release games both on PC and consoles. But while PC gamers don’t expect 2020 games to run well on 2013 hardware, console gamers think that you can buy hardware that isn’t cutting edge in the year of its release and be set for nearly a decade. So, developers has to either limit innovations and build games around, let’s be honest, outdated technologies, or try to push gaming technology forward and be damned for doing so. Last year we had Control, this year we have Cyberpunk 2077. It’s not surprising that so few developers tries to push things significantly forward, but it’s also incredibly sad.
Something needs to be changed in the industry. Either consoles need to update quicker, or PC market needs to grow, or we need something completely new that would make big budget PC-only releases sustainable.
@ffff0 I think CDPR said it better than anyone else when they released Witcher 3. Consoles aren't holding gaming back because without the console market you couldn't finance a game as ambitious as Witcher 3.
PC just can't compete in price with consoles. And on the other hand looking at Steam stats, on average, PC hardware isn't exactly dominated by behemoth GPUs and CPUs, on the contrary.
Power is nice, but we had Skyrim and GTA V running on the X360/PS3. And BotW on the Switch. Loving this game but the issue here is bad project management and lack of know how. And probably Covid19 had a catastrophic impact also.
bard91 last edited by
I think this opens up the point that in many ways gaming should be pushed in other ways, because at the point of diminishing returns with visuals we are, there's a lot of creative space that could be looked into and it doesn't have to affect the quality of games, for me 13 Sentinels is a perfect example, excluding P5R, it is my undisputed GOTY and a highlight of the generation, and it does that with no need to push any visuals.
And this is actually a pretty cool video on the subject.
Yoshi last edited by
I'm now 35 hours in since I've restarted the game. Kinda having Skyrim flashbacks. Barely touched the main story, doing a lot of exploration and having lots of fun with how free you are to approach situations.
Not having crashes or broken quests, but glitches galore. I really hope they implement some form of pedestrian AI and a more nuanced law system. But I'm really loving it, pretty sure I'll put hundreds of hours in. Story bits are great, basic side stuff fun, with some really high quality side missions coming up frequently and just exploring the world is rewarding.
Pulled this from the recently published Kotaku review:
I don’t know the story of Cyberpunk’s development, but when I play I catch hints of what feels like frustrated intentions everywhere. There are so many places where the game feels like it was meant to be something else: areas meant to have content, choices that could have mattered, features that could have been more necessary.
That's basically how I'm feeling about Cyberpunk. It's good enough to keep me going. I've even gotten weirdly addicted to disassembling random junk and selling the parts for money or making guns and selling those. But all of these little parts feel disconnected including the economy, skill paths, the quests, and the world the quests take place in.
@dipset I know there's ways to break the economy but just by playing it normally I really like how it's balanced.
I'm getting near 60h and mostly doing side content. I'm playing this a lot like I did Skyrim. It has that same openness Skyrim offered where I've change my play style a lot, although Cyberpunk offers more variety when it comes to approach.
Always feel the need to point the bad too, but I won't now. Kinda pointless as it's known. I'm just loving the gameplay loop, how great the writing is for side content and how great world building is.
Also, right now maxed my Intelligence and I'm godlike.
DMCMaster last edited by
Just realized, there's no Judge Dredd type background for V.
Brandon_Reister last edited by
@phbz I just found out how easy it is to break the crafting system. There are several items that disassemble into more components than it takes to make them. Now I just need to find good clothing schematics, which I have found almost none of 55 hours in.
DIPSET last edited by DIPSET
Yeah that’s basically my main source of income. I’ll sell the two common parts from disassembling junk like consumables, or use them if I need to craft something, then I’ll hoard the Epic components for upgrades I need.
Between disassembling junk and selling weapons I find, that’s been by far the most reliable way to make money. Honestly not sure how you are supposed to make money properly, at least the $20M you owe Viktor your ripperdoc.
FYI - people have reported your save file breaking from too much crafting. I’ve personally found it creates glitches where you can’t consume, sell, or disassemble certain items. Green “Mix It Up” cans are completely broken for me. Also sometimes makes my menu freeze and I have to quit the game.
@brandon_reister I always run away from exploits unless it's really late game just to mess with the world. I'm doing fine with money so far. Got lots of expensive tech , a few cars and some good money.
For clothes I don't care too much about how good it is. I just use whatever it's cool.
Slight spoiler of side content:
I found a talking gun that's now my main non stealth weapon. It's so funny, it always gets me that it suffers from premature ejaculation, so at times just fires by itself.
Capnbobamous last edited by
FYI - people have reported your save file breaking from too much crafting.
It had to do with a save-file memory cap CDPR put on the game, but they have since removed it. Crafting shouldn't break saves anymore.
Scotty last edited by
it always gets me that it suffers from premature ejaculation, so at times just fires by itself.
Now that's a clever joke!
paulmci27 last edited by
Well I just got my refund. It actually runs okay on the One X in the the hour that I played but I heard rumours that there's going to be a huge No Mans Sky like overhaul coming by hopefully June. I'd rather just wait until its properly fixed (if that's possible)
Despite playing like 25-30 hours, I wouldn't even be super mad about restarting fresh with a new V build, a new GPU, and a complete overhaul in June, but I'm doubtful that'll happen. That seems waaaaaay too soon.
bard91 last edited by
@dipset I'm about to beat it, but I'll buy it on PS5 as soon as it comes out to play it again, as I generally prefer playing on console and there's a ton I left without doing that I really wanna play.
(Shit, way longer than I was expecting!)
Still far from finishing the game but as I'm getting near the 100th hour I decided to share my thoughts about it.
I was expecting Cyberpunk to be an expanded Deus Ex and that's basically what it is. Then throw some GTA and Fallout, Skyrim in the mix, with all the pros and cons, along with Witcher 2 and 3, and there you have it. I'll throw some comparisons around because looking at the general discourse around social media it seems like there's some exaggeration regarding its flaws. But this is also how discourse works nowadays, Red Dead Redemption 2 was highly criticised only to now be called as the open world standard.
Honestly the world caught me by surprise. The density of the city is on a level that I would only expect from Rockstar and even then I'll say this surpasses what they've done with GTA so far. Crazy amount of geometry going on, attention with detail from the grand scale of the colossal skyscrapers to the tight streets and slums. Night City feels alive, with districts blending into each other organically, local business, people walking the streets and great background sound design.
There's issues, mostly coming from very shallow AI, glitches and lacking animations from pedestrians. It's mostly functional. They'll run when crossing the street if the light turns red, say something if you talk or bump against with them and get scared if you do something crazy. I can easily make a video exemplifying some abhorrent behaviour, but that's not the norm. For 99% of my time with the game they just go on their (clumsy) lives and most issues arise from the insane amount of population density in certain areas like City Center or Corpo Plaza.
In all honestly Night City's citizens don't vary that much from most open world NPCs. Needs work no doubt but more on the glitch and animation side of things than the AI it self. But again, it functions, as you walk through a colossal metropolis the pedestrians do their job just fine by just doing their own thing. This until you come across one floating 2 meter from the ground or leaving its phone floating in the air. But lets not pretend this is something unique to Cyberpunk. Open World games are known to glitch a lot. Even a super basic open world game like Spider-Man has plenty of weirdness going on, and so do Ubisoft games despite releasing several a year. (Bethesda!!) And setting Rockstar as the standard everyone should meet, is like saying that every football player must be at least as good as Cristiano Ronaldo or just quit.
Coming from GTA, Fallout and Deus Ex roots, Cyberpunk largely surpasses expectations set by its influences. Hell it's even better than – say -Metro Exodus (on console), which is at its core a shooter. Low standards? Maybe. But these are in fact the standards set by the industry leaders. It would be great if the shooting was as good as Destiny but it is closer to Destiny in quality than anything done in the genre before. Guns have great feedback and are precise to control. The fairest comparison would be Outer Worlds which in my opinion already compared favourably with most in the genre.
Stealth is basically Deus Ex.
Enemy AI is lacking, but again, nor Fallout or Deus Ex offer something better. This is pretty on par. Except combat AI does frequently break.
Was hoping for Cyberpunk to be the first open world game with great driving (wait, except Mad Max) but unfortunately it is not. 1st person driving is quite ok, except that most sport cars are so low that you can't see the road, forcing you to go 3rd person which controls way worse, being too twitchy. Regardless of the perspective you choose you still have terrible breaks and almost non existent traffic AI. I think with some minor tweaks this could improve a lot. I'll say that staying within the city speed limits helps a lot the driving experience.
A GPS voice notifying you when to turn would be great because it gets annoying spend more time looking at the map than at the road.
Level design and mission structure
So here's a controversial opinion. Cyberpunk has some of the best level design I've ever experienced. It's impressive in both quality, quantity and depth.
It's very reminiscent – again- of Deus Ex. You have a building, with multiple entry points and ways to complete the mission. At this point I completed every single side mission available in the map just because of how satisfying is the setting up of each mission, how open is the approach and natural the level design feels. There's very little of the typical email with the new pass code to open “that door”, no incredibly large air vent that takes you from the toilet straight to your target. It's really astonishing the amount of buildings present in the world and how fantastic is the level design in each one.
Locations feel real and often have nice small design subtleties. Like, maybe you can get close to a target staying at a motel just by talking to the receptionist and renting a room. Maybe that mission where you are supposed to deliver a car, before delivering the car you should open the trunk and that will drasticly change what was expected from you initially. This subtlety where stuff is not telegraphed to the player and “unnecessary” care is given to mundane quests is one of my favourite things about this game.
Then of the opposite side you have the situations you come across on the streets, where level design is near inexistent and missions have zero structure. This is the equivalent of Ghost of Tsushima's road encounters. In my opinion is not handled well from a design perspective. I would be OK with it if these were random encounters (like GoT) but the decision of marking them on the map takes away its only redeeming quality. Passable filler content that works well enough if you just come across it and decide to engage. Mediocre stuff, useful for grinding only, mildly satisfying if you stumble by accident while exploring. But again, the kind of filler you'll find in every single open world game.
Story and Characters
While I was playing TLoU2 it annoyed me how much of a spectator you were. Not just from a decision making perceptive but mostly for the lack of participation. Cyberpunk nails this in my opinion. Departs from the stiffness of Witcher 3, and most RPGs, and fully embraces the more cinematic approach of a big AAA title but makes sure to keep you engaged by participating in intimate actions like sitting down, drinking, giving a hug, fu... and dialogue choices. This makes small moments incredible significant emotionally. When shit doesn't just breaks!! When the character you're talking too dosen't start to multiply the cigarette she's smoking in mid air, or objects don't just disappear or you're spawned inside the character you're talking with, seeing her eyes and teeth from inside her head.
Don't know how impactful are your decisions, probably not Wasteland 3 level, but its not like anyone cared about that game. Without a second playtrough, or going online and spoil stuff, is difficult to know how much is an illusion. But it appear to me that several relations change based on your decisions, as well as whole blocks of story being not available much like in Witcher 2. Again, kind of hard to say but perception wise it's great how not gamy this bifurcations feel.
But as a whole story content is pretty great. World building very well handled by environments, literature and media. Characters come in and out of your game in a very natural way with story and missions spawning from interactions with you but more importantly between each other regardless of you. A great mix of small stories to more complex mysteries coming from side content. And the main story so far (I'm far from finishing it) lives of great characters and interpersonal relationships, and a fantastic deep and complex world, omnipresent.
Music and sound design
Sound design I think it's pretty on point. The city, guns and cars (in 3rd person) all sound great. But there's mixing problems, and bugs that at times fail to trigger some sounds. I noticed a few dialogue lines that seem to have ended up in the game without being treated. Or maybe some post processing that should be done in game and the sound engine failed. As with most things with this game, quite good until the games breaks it.
It always was going to be difficult to fit music stations in a future world. It's not reasonable to ask for whole music genres to be invented for a game. But their selection works surprisingly well. For me, a lover of black metal and electronic music, this hits incredible close to home. But it's nowhere near the quality of GTA 5, which I'm not neutral about being a Flying Lotus fanboy.
Customisation and RPGing
This is a mixed bag. First I do support 100% their decision of going 1st person, but I do feel a 3rd person mode, even if Skyrim levels of clunky, would be great just to occasionally check on your character. I like to dress according to the mission, or moment, and sucks that there isn't a bigger visual feedback apart from menus and mirrors (and lots of photo mode). But there's an impressive amount of variety in clothing with a surprising render quality.
Stats wise I appreciate what the game does. You are never locked out of a type of gameplay style, and it rewards you just by acting. And then specialisation offers a good depth. Nothing new really, but works. I went for a maxed “mage” build mixed with stealth as secondary and the way as it progressed made me change my approach style constantly, more so than I was expecting. Yet I still do some missions just shotguning people when I feel like. Reminds me a lot of Skyrim and that's great.
If you just follow the path of least resistance you probably won't have much fun with it but if you allow yourself to be creative and seek the fun and the challenge there's plenty to enjoy here. Stupid analogy, but it's kinda like Mario Odyssey, if you content yourself with just getting the minimum moons you probably wont enjoy it but there's much more depth beyond that.
I''m having a great time with this game, so far. But I can't recommend it to anyone. Still think CDPR should be ashamed of releasing it like this. It shows a lack of respect for their customers but honestly what disgusts me even more it's how it shows a greater lack of respect for their own developers. It's heartbreaking seeing the level of attention that almost everything in this game got to be completely ruined by poor management. Marketing pulling a Molyneux didn't help neither.
This is an unfinished, unpolished game that requires a lot of good will as it stands. Every single thing I praised about it is blemished by bugs, glitches or just being unfinished. Or all at the same time. Everting AI related (traffic, pedestrians, enemies, police) needs work and it's in my opinion the biggest issue with this game. Hopefully it's their priority right now, though I imagine getting the game to be back on PS store is really where they are focusing right now.
I also think it will be interesting to follow how it will evolve in the upcoming months. I imagine they'll include lots of "free" DLC that will basically be just missing features being integrated back in the game.
It's funny because I basically disagree with almost every single point of praise you've given the game, but at the same time, I still see the glimmers of goodness myself and I wish I too could enjoy the game as much as you and other people have enjoyed it so in the end I'm just happy you like it.
I think I can see the subjectivity in a lot of the praises and criticisms of the game, but I have a really hard time getting on board with the level design, combat, skill progression holy trinity. I find levels are boxy, enemies are placed cluttered in spots while barely moving. My V-build has really high stealth and pistol crit damage I can basically just wiz through a ton of levels as a headshot sim. I'm pretty happy for it because up close and personal stealth just feels jank so I'd rather shoot them from afar.
On top of that, I hear enemy audio coming from random places (like maybe I'm in a basement and they are 2 floors up and I somehow hear them). Sometimes they sound angry and on alert so I'm not sure if they know I'm here. They shouldn't know I'm here because I've been pure stealth, but they repeat the same 3-4 angry lines so I can never tell if they're on the hunt. Likewise, the game allows for camera hacking but doesn't display all the enemies if you go too far out of where V is so basically, the cameras are unreliable for enemy placement.
You mentioned this game is being compared to everything which obviously isn't entirely fair, but I can't help myself in comparing it to other games that do things better. I think about combat-first games like MGS V, TLOU2, The Evil Within 2, and how well those games did level design, enemy AI, and dynamic open environment combat. Obviously CP77 can't be the master of everything but I just don't like how combat and the mission areas feel.
A closer point of comparison for me would be The Outer Worlds which doesn't over complicate their missions. The combat mission scenarios are in the open world or small areas like houses and the gunplay or melee feels buttery smooth so it compensates for it's lack of deep level design. Whereas CP77 goes into custom mission levels which don't feel great (i.e. infiltrating the compound with PanAm or confronting Woodman in the club then sudden guards appear in narrow hallways for no reason).
Total bug but still not fixed for me is my tech pistol sometimes won't fire. Gets me killed so often when I switch from stealth to loud but my gun won't fire. Apparently it's a bug but it hasn't been patched as of when I played a week ago.
@dipset Some of the complaints you list are due to the unfinished nature of the game. There's plenty of stuff that seems like it's one step short from being ready for release, or that it was rushed to meet release. I can certainly see how this alone can kill any enthusiasm for the game.
On the other hand those bite size fixer jobs are the better part of this game where IMO level design shines. And that's something I've been noticing is that most people I come across that are enjoying this game as much as I am, are the ones spending 80/100/140 hours in the game mostly doing side content.
But its design philosophy is not of a "combat-first game", as you put it. This is really a immersive sim at its core. Traditionally direct combat is the least enjoyable way to play them and stealth isn't this very reactive thing, more of a situational puzzle that you have to solve. I do recommend to push the difficulty to the max just to raise the stakes, more so as you become overpowered. It's true that the game has an identity crisis in some scripted mission that push you to combat, but I still think the combat here surpasses genre standards. And can be enjoyable, specially when you can be downed in 2 or 3 shots.
As someone who loves the infiltration/extraction side of Deus Ex this game is kind of a dream come true as it offers dozens upon dozens of that at really high quality.
Anyway, just my opinion. I completely can understand people not enjoying this game. I'm even surprised how Steam as a 79% rating for a game in such a poor state. But in a way it illustrates how strong the core is regardless. It's one of the games I'm enjoying most this year (well last year) but as a reviewer, right now, I would give it a 6/10.
Just a side comment for the forum in general. In two EzA podcasts I saw people recommending to save your progression points and use them as you "need" them. That's the absolute worst way of playing an immersive sim. That will just lead you through the path of least resistance and you might be deviating from the build you really want. The game is well designed enough to offer you alternative routes not dependent on having strength or technical skill to open a door. For sure invest in those abilities as they are useful, but do focus on what you really want in the long run rather then what's convenient in that second.