Cyberpunk 2077 (XBO/PS4/PC)

  • @phbz

    It's funny because I basically disagree with almost every single point of praise you've given the game, but at the same time, I still see the glimmers of goodness myself and I wish I too could enjoy the game as much as you and other people have enjoyed it so in the end I'm just happy you like it.

    I think I can see the subjectivity in a lot of the praises and criticisms of the game, but I have a really hard time getting on board with the level design, combat, skill progression holy trinity. I find levels are boxy, enemies are placed cluttered in spots while barely moving. My V-build has really high stealth and pistol crit damage I can basically just wiz through a ton of levels as a headshot sim. I'm pretty happy for it because up close and personal stealth just feels jank so I'd rather shoot them from afar.

    On top of that, I hear enemy audio coming from random places (like maybe I'm in a basement and they are 2 floors up and I somehow hear them). Sometimes they sound angry and on alert so I'm not sure if they know I'm here. They shouldn't know I'm here because I've been pure stealth, but they repeat the same 3-4 angry lines so I can never tell if they're on the hunt. Likewise, the game allows for camera hacking but doesn't display all the enemies if you go too far out of where V is so basically, the cameras are unreliable for enemy placement.

    You mentioned this game is being compared to everything which obviously isn't entirely fair, but I can't help myself in comparing it to other games that do things better. I think about combat-first games like MGS V, TLOU2, The Evil Within 2, and how well those games did level design, enemy AI, and dynamic open environment combat. Obviously CP77 can't be the master of everything but I just don't like how combat and the mission areas feel.

    A closer point of comparison for me would be The Outer Worlds which doesn't over complicate their missions. The combat mission scenarios are in the open world or small areas like houses and the gunplay or melee feels buttery smooth so it compensates for it's lack of deep level design. Whereas CP77 goes into custom mission levels which don't feel great (i.e. infiltrating the compound with PanAm or confronting Woodman in the club then sudden guards appear in narrow hallways for no reason).

    Total bug but still not fixed for me is my tech pistol sometimes won't fire. Gets me killed so often when I switch from stealth to loud but my gun won't fire. Apparently it's a bug but it hasn't been patched as of when I played a week ago.

  • @dipset Some of the complaints you list are due to the unfinished nature of the game. There's plenty of stuff that seems like it's one step short from being ready for release, or that it was rushed to meet release. I can certainly see how this alone can kill any enthusiasm for the game.

    On the other hand those bite size fixer jobs are the better part of this game where IMO level design shines. And that's something I've been noticing is that most people I come across that are enjoying this game as much as I am, are the ones spending 80/100/140 hours in the game mostly doing side content.

    But its design philosophy is not of a "combat-first game", as you put it. This is really a immersive sim at its core. Traditionally direct combat is the least enjoyable way to play them and stealth isn't this very reactive thing, more of a situational puzzle that you have to solve. I do recommend to push the difficulty to the max just to raise the stakes, more so as you become overpowered. It's true that the game has an identity crisis in some scripted mission that push you to combat, but I still think the combat here surpasses genre standards. And can be enjoyable, specially when you can be downed in 2 or 3 shots.

    As someone who loves the infiltration/extraction side of Deus Ex this game is kind of a dream come true as it offers dozens upon dozens of that at really high quality.

    Anyway, just my opinion. I completely can understand people not enjoying this game. I'm even surprised how Steam as a 79% rating for a game in such a poor state. But in a way it illustrates how strong the core is regardless. It's one of the games I'm enjoying most this year (well last year) but as a reviewer, right now, I would give it a 6/10.

    Just a side comment for the forum in general. In two EzA podcasts I saw people recommending to save your progression points and use them as you "need" them. That's the absolute worst way of playing an immersive sim. That will just lead you through the path of least resistance and you might be deviating from the build you really want. The game is well designed enough to offer you alternative routes not dependent on having strength or technical skill to open a door. For sure invest in those abilities as they are useful, but do focus on what you really want in the long run rather then what's convenient in that second.

  • Just finished the game with what I'm positive must be one of the worst endings.

    Not only do I agree with the initial reviews that had the game on the 90s, this game is nothing short of brilliant and absolutely worth the wait, and it simply has me incredibly excited of knowing that I left a ton of content undone, and similar to TW3 it was the kinda thing that just grew on me and had me more and more invested as I kept playing.

    This is an all time great and a game that will never fade away.

  • Just reading these tweets from Schreier and man what a freaking mess it was development of this game!

    This part pissed me of the most(the part about it was third-person for 2 years):



  • I feel like in my TV production world I hear people say things like “well when I worked on this show, we only needed 3 pose artists, so why does this show need 7?” and I can’t help but get annoyed because not all shows are made equal, they don’t all have the same budgets, talent, etc.

    So it’s hard enough to schedule in an industry that is very pipeline driven with tried and true formulas for getting it done. I can’t even begin to imagine how to build a pipeline for a game with this much stuff going on. And obviously management doesn’t want to sit and wait to test out different options of production when they can just start DOING and adapt later.

    Basically, I’m not surprised. Not sure what the fix for these massive games having development woes other than get less ambitious, don’t announce a release date and be open to stopping and reassessing problems as you go along.

    Easier said than done. And what incentive do they have to change things? The game sold well and somehow reviewed well too.

  • Specifically for Cyberpunk they definitely needed more time.

    But much of what I've been reading seems like pretty common for game development. Software is modular in nature, things are indeed stitched together. And features are left out all the the time. We just don't know about it.

    At this point is beating a dead horse. The problems are obvious since release day, this adds nothing. It would be praise worthy if this report had been published before release.

  • @phbz said in Cyberpunk 2077 (XBO/PS4/PC):

    But much of what I've been reading seems like pretty common for game development. Software is modular in nature, things are indeed stitched together. And features are left out all the the time. We just don't know about it.

    Main problem is, other games' development cycles don't effect the final product this much most of the time so they must be managing those situations better.

  • @scotty Game was too ambitious for their time frame. Bad project management, just that. And some naivety with the PR. There's no denying that. No one is saying all went great (not me at least).

    It's just making me uncomfortable what's being pointed out as unique when most of it is quite normal. Just like trying to paint the idea of a vertical slice demo at E3 2 years prior to release as a sign something was wrong.

  • @phbz

    Okay, got your point mostly in the second sentence.

  • @phbz

    I actually think the takeaway the writer was putting out there is that this isn’t unique to Cyberpunk. This happens all over the industry and it’s kinda similar to his other reports. Sort of like a loose “why even make games” sentiment hidden somewhere in there.

  • Girlfriend reviews has two cool videos on Cyberpunk.

    Youtube Video

    Youtube Video

  • @phbz yep I agree a lot with this, I personally love the game and think the end product is phenomenal, but there's certainly a ton of issues with the process, that from my experience, is not just game related but too often in sw development in general, to a large degree here that certainly impacted the end product, and something that does need be improved at large and certainly within CDPR, but it unnerves me somewhat the level of persecussion things seem to be at, which admittedly may be a bit of a defensive stance from my side given I do love the game.

    One thing that struck me as very odd in those tweets is that it mentioned apparently planned mechanics in 2016, such as a third person view, wallrunning, flying cars, which seem like odd complaints to me, since that was very close to the development, at those were features that they had announced long ago would not be present, and it seems perfectly understandable to me that throught development features like that may be cut as technical and design challenges come up.

  • i finished the game last night. I've barely touched the side-gigs. Think I've maybe done like 10 or so. I didn't really understand how to make money so I didn't really buy much. I focused a lot on trying to build up my Crafting so I could craft all my Legendary Iconics. My favourite gun ended up being the one you get from the penthouse at the end of act 1. Having a silencer on it was so nice.

    Honestly, I fell pretty much right where Bens review is. The highs are so very high. There are some incredible set-pieces and the writing team has outdone themselves on creating compelling characters.

    But I also find the combat to be rather dull at times.

    And the bugs are so pervasive it's frustrating. Falling through the world, audio glitching out ruining dramatic highpoints, enemies glitching out and not reacting to you for an entire area.

    I'm probably going to jump back in over the weekend just so I can play through one of the other endings, as the one I got was nice but wasn't particularly satisfying.

    So yeah, I think Bens review is on the money. It's a strong 7, verging on an 8 if they can sort the game out technically.


    I forgot to mention that I think when CDPR say that it's the next generation open world, I sort of believe them. In terms of questing and density and the way the world is built, it's really damn cool. But as time has gone on, I can't help but find the world very flat. Anyone who isn't quest related has almost no dialogue, and when you compare that to something like Skyrim, Skyrim's population feels more real as a result. As Ben said, its comically abrupt.

    It's the world that will have me recommending the game to people in the next few months, once I have word that the bugs have been worked on and fixed a lot.

  • Cyberpunk has another update.

  • Anyone play this lately? I'm tempted to buy again if it's been somewhat improved.

  • @paulmci27 Don't get it yet then. Last months update did very little to change things, basically set the base for future changes and this month's hasn't dropped yet.

  • @paulmci27

    I main'd pistols and stealth. Sometimes my pistols don't shoot, even after updates.

    So I wouldn't recommend it yet and especially if you don't have RTX 20 or 30 series cause the graphics just look PS3-ish, even on High.

  • Thanks for the info I've only got a one x. I'll hold off until I see how this February update goes.

  • This might be a good watch for you guys who have completed the game. I know Noah makes very interesting video essays, but I'm gonna avoid this one for now since I haven't played the game.

    Youtube Video