The Naughty Dog Agenda



  • @mcgeezaks said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    But people do because it's not the norm.

    That's called prejudice

    The best and right way is to not acknowledge their race at all, because being/having a black character shouldn't be painted up to be a big deal.

    Yeah, that's not how it goes though. It might have been right for that character, but unless you're writing all black characters to never bring up or discuss or acknowledge that they are black - kinda seems like you want a silent token black guy.


  • Banned

    @tokyoslim said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    That's called prejudice

    It's called seeing something you normally never see.



  • @tokyoslim said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    @sheria said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    @tokyoslim said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    @sheria said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    If there's a call for new things, they will come naturally as and when publishers see a market for it.

    Ideology pushers all of a sudden, I don't welcome.

    In this case B is a clear example of A - and you're just stubbornly refusing to believe it

    I'm sorry but simply standing up in defence of something is not the same position.

    They are not simply standing up in defense. That's the entire point. This is what "it coming naturally and when publishers see a market for it" looks like man. TLOU2 is gonna sell like 8-10 million copies. lol

    Ahh I see, sorry, misunderstood. Well, time will tell. It will sell well, no arguments there, but I personally disagree it will make any difference to the so called "issues" these few are concocting. But the thing is, if the games are such sure fire hits, there's actually no need for the underlining agenda push. Unfortunately, the fact that these are high profile and wanted games means Druckmann sees it as a nice little platform to try and give the industry a little nudge to see things in the way he wants it.



  • @mcgeezaks said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    @tokyoslim said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    That's called prejudice

    It's called seeing something you normally never see.

    I see people kiss all the time. Lesbians even. I have a television and the internet. Welcome to 2018.



  • @sheria said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    I personally disagree it will make any difference to the so called "issues" these few are concocting

    If the issue as stated was a lack of games with women or queer protagonists, then by making exactly that kind of game, he's "making a difference" to the issue. :)


  • Banned

    @tokyoslim I personally think that is severely lowballing TLOU2 sales. The first game sold 17 million. I'm betting this smashes even GoW in terms of sales.



  • @el-shmiablo It might. I was thinking like just next year though. Is the remaster included in that 17 million?


  • Banned

    @tokyoslim I believe so, though if I recall majority of sales were on PS3. Around 12 mill iirc.

    I want to ask a question to some of the people in this thread.

    If, by some chance, Ellie's sexuality actually IS for some reason pivotal to the story in TLOU2... what is wrong with that?
    I personally don't see it being touched on more than "Ellie has a love interest and said love interest happens to be female" but IF it somehow becomes a central plot device... what is the problem with that?

    For example, is it wrong the Black Panther dealt with black culture and black issues? If a movie/game/book has a story to tell, why shouldn't they tell that story, even if it deals with subject matter that makes you uncomfortable?

    Before somebody says "That isn't TLOU's subject matter" I want you to think about what TLOU's subject matter is. It deals with many aspects of human nature. Joel's entire plotline centered the loss of his daughter and how he came to care for Ellie because of that. Love was very central to the themes in the first game, and if the recent trailer is any indication, it seems those themes will carry over.

    If you think the focus is more on sexuality than love, that might be your problem.



  • @tokyoslim said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    @sheria said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    I personally disagree it will make any difference to the so called "issues" these few are concocting

    If the issue as stated was a lack of games with women or queer protagonists, then by making exactly that kind of game, he's "making a difference" to the issue. :)

    Like that comes close to what they want to see. I can assure you, when they see it doesn't make any significant ripples, they then like to come back and whine even louder. Poor them, all those sexists, homophobes, racists and white men are just holding things back ='(


  • Banned

    @sheria That is a nice strawman you've built there. Its looking a little flat though. Perhaps you should stuff it with a few more logical fallacies?



  • Nah, no need.



  • Whether or not they have the agenda, you gotta admit the company's name is a hilariously bad fit for the agenda.



  • Very curious where on the planet some folks here live. Quite baffled by these perspectives that do not correspond to the extraordinarily diverse society I currently live in as well as interact with this diverse group of people daily, especially at work and my friends group.


  • Banned

    @tokyoslim said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    I see people kiss all the time. Lesbians even. I have a television and the internet. Welcome to 2018.

    Unless you're actively looking for lesbians on the internet or TV you will still not see it ''all the time''. I don't know who you're trying to fool.



  • I don't see how the trailer was showcasing her being a lesbian.. To me it seems they're establishing some kind of romantic interest that will impact Ellie's character in a big way and/or kickstart whatever quest she is on in the game. If she were straight that wouldn't change.. they've established that she is a lesbian already so naturally her romantic interest will be another woman.



  • @mcgeezaks

    A significant handful of the friends I've made since 2013 when I started university are openly gay, and trans. In my close group, 3 of 6 are gay. They have boyfriends and girlfriends and none of this was out of the ordinary on campus, at work, in public, or at home.

    Not only is this entirely normal, but I am confused at to where a gay kiss is so standout-ish.

    Didn't T.a.t.u make that music video with a lesbian kiss in like 2001? Are we not past this phase?



  • @dipset MTV's Best Kiss award in 2000 went to Selma Blair and Sarah Michelle Gellar in Cruel Intentions. Which is still a good movie.

    Girls kissing other girls happens on like The CW now. It's about the least shocking thing ever.



  • This is important stuff:

    Youtube Video

    Youtube Video



  • The whole point of the Ellie kiss was to show a romantic interest that will likely play a big part in the game, and to show that Ellie was once happy. The fact that it was a lesbian kiss is and should be irrelevant. We already knew Ellie was a lesbian from Left Behind, so I don't really understand why everyone is making a big deal about this.

    The first trailer we saw showed a very angry, broken Ellie, so it was only natural that this trailer would try to be a stark contrast to that. One of the best ways to do that was to show her romantic interest, who just so happened to be a woman. Like others have said, none of you would be complaining if she kissed a guy, so how is this any different? Lesbians aren't unicorns, you know. They exist and are actually quite common if you go outside. If Naughty Dog wants her to be a lesbian then so be it. Not every lesbian is trying to make a statement.



  • Tbh I think that Youtuber's biggest mistake was using ND as an example when Bioware is a much bigger offender in this case. I guess that was because he is a big ND fan, which I'm simply not, I think the only good game ND ever made was Jak & Dexter, Jak 2 and 3 are okay, Uncharted 1 is okay, the rest is overrated hot trash in my eyes, ND is the most overglorified dev.
    I'm also aromantic and always thought kissing and sex scenes in non pornographic media is kinda unecessary, like I enjoyed Wolfenstein New Order but the romance between BJ and whoever was really the low point for me, I literally wtf'd on the 2nd sex scene. In japanese non hentai games kissing is very rare, sex is mostly only implied, only game I can remember going a bit overboard with kissing is Yakuza 2 (so most likely Kiwami 2 as well), I much prefer that over the openess of modern western media. Yet in the west japanese games are looked down upon and often censored for their sexual content, even so they never show nipples nor genitals, they rarely show intercourse, unlike western games.


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