The Naughty Dog Agenda

  • This is important stuff:

    Youtube Video

    Youtube Video

  • The whole point of the Ellie kiss was to show a romantic interest that will likely play a big part in the game, and to show that Ellie was once happy. The fact that it was a lesbian kiss is and should be irrelevant. We already knew Ellie was a lesbian from Left Behind, so I don't really understand why everyone is making a big deal about this.

    The first trailer we saw showed a very angry, broken Ellie, so it was only natural that this trailer would try to be a stark contrast to that. One of the best ways to do that was to show her romantic interest, who just so happened to be a woman. Like others have said, none of you would be complaining if she kissed a guy, so how is this any different? Lesbians aren't unicorns, you know. They exist and are actually quite common if you go outside. If Naughty Dog wants her to be a lesbian then so be it. Not every lesbian is trying to make a statement.

  • Tbh I think that Youtuber's biggest mistake was using ND as an example when Bioware is a much bigger offender in this case. I guess that was because he is a big ND fan, which I'm simply not, I think the only good game ND ever made was Jak & Dexter, Jak 2 and 3 are okay, Uncharted 1 is okay, the rest is overrated hot trash in my eyes, ND is the most overglorified dev.
    I'm also aromantic and always thought kissing and sex scenes in non pornographic media is kinda unecessary, like I enjoyed Wolfenstein New Order but the romance between BJ and whoever was really the low point for me, I literally wtf'd on the 2nd sex scene. In japanese non hentai games kissing is very rare, sex is mostly only implied, only game I can remember going a bit overboard with kissing is Yakuza 2 (so most likely Kiwami 2 as well), I much prefer that over the openess of modern western media. Yet in the west japanese games are looked down upon and often censored for their sexual content, even so they never show nipples nor genitals, they rarely show intercourse, unlike western games.

  • I honestly am shocked this is a talking point but I guess if we replaced Ellie's lesbian kiss with an interracial heterosexual kiss and rewound time by a few decades I can start to see how breaking long held social intolerances becomes "controversial".

  • Banned

    @Mango Woah, dude.

    Don't just go calling it like it is. That might cause people to have to deal with their ingrained prejudices instead of pretending they don't exist.

  • @el-shmiablo Good one! I don't see what the big deal is. I never cared for Last of Us or its characters, but it's Naughty Dog's game. They can do whatever the hell they want. If you don't like the subject matter, get over yourselves and don't play it. Which is weird, because some people complaining about this were never going to play it to begin with. At least ND aren't trying to screw you over with crappy DLC or season passes.

    Fuck Robin Gaming; he is one of the worst video game "commentators" or "analysis" persons on YT. If you're taking advice from people like him, you need to rethink you life. I swear it's like the people complaining about Wolfenstein II, when the Nazi are gasp portrayed as the bad guys. This didn't last long, but it was still stupid. Where were these people when all of the other Wolfestein games were out, or any WWII shooters in general?

  • Banned

    @brawlman said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    Where were these people when all of the other Wolfestein games were out, or any WWII shooters in general?

    Trump wasnt president.

  • @el-shmiablo Don't worry, that was a rhetorical question. I forgot to put parentheses around them. But still that was probably helpful to people who don't know the answer, so I thank you. I got that answer from Double Toasted video on the Wolfenstein "controversy".

  • This reminds me of when white rap fans always have a preference to the nerd bird white rappers or corn balls like Logic, then go ahead and criticize anything that comes from "street" rappers with an unconscious underlying racist tone because they do not understand it and feel like they are superior to it in some way. This has nothing to do with TLOU2 but the underlying prejudice put forward in the arguments against it.

  • @dipset I didn't know those type of rap fans existed, but it doesn't surprise me. Now, I've had my own problems with hip hop as it is today in the mainstream, but not self-hatred or judging rappers by race. I thought we got past this shit in the middle 2000s. Last I checked it was a 1999 anymore. Then again there's always some hypocritical or idiotic part of the fanbase somewhere, so I shouldn't expect too much.

  • Banned

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  • Banned

    @dipset said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:


    A significant handful of the friends I've made since 2013 when I started university are openly gay, and trans. In my close group, 3 of 6 are gay. They have boyfriends and girlfriends and none of this was out of the ordinary on campus, at work, in public, or at home.

    Not only is this entirely normal, but I am confused at to where a gay kiss is so standout-ish.

    Didn't T.a.t.u make that music video with a lesbian kiss in like 2001? Are we not past this phase?

    Good for you? You're a special case, I've only met 1 lesbian in my entire life. When you meet a person you just assume they're hetero since like 98% of the population is in fact hetero.

    @tokyoslim said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    @dipset MTV's Best Kiss award in 2000 went to Selma Blair and Sarah Michelle Gellar in Cruel Intentions. Which is still a good movie.

    Girls kissing other girls happens on like The CW now. It's about the least shocking thing ever.

    ''Shocking'' lul

  • @mcgeezaks said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    98% of the population is in fact hetero.

    That is actually NOT a fact. If you'd have said 96.5%, that would be the closest global estimate we have right now, but depending on where you live, that percentage goes down significantly.

    Sounds like you should get out and meet some more people.

  • Either way, without being pedantic, it is normal. If you assume ones sexual interest, like that's fine but that shouldn't cause some surprise if that assumption is incorrect.

    And just in terms of this topic, I'm not even sure what the point of it is. If it's just to highlight that Naughty Dog are interested in exploring more diverse characters with interesting stories, then I think everyone is agreed that they absolutely do that and it's a major reason why I love their games. If one doesn't have an interest in that then that's cool too, there are more games then ever out there to cater to your needs.

  • @tokeeffe9 said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    I think everyone is agreed that they absolutely do that

    The point of this thread is actually that the OP seems NOT in agreement with that. At least on a personal level.

  • Banned

    @tokyoslim Oh I think OP agrees with that, but I think that OP also sees that as a problem. At least on a personal level.

  • @el-shmiablo no, I mean they disagree that ND is doing this because they want to tell different stories.

  • Banned

    @tokyoslim Oh no I still think he would agree with that, but still thinks that is a problem, as they are stories they clearly do not like.

  • @el-shmiablo nah, we went over that.

    It's explicitly that Neil Druckmann believes women aren't represented in games.

    Which is apparently a lie, because as everyone knows, women mostly play Candy Crush.

    Therefore, the "Agenda" is to take a game that could be good, and to fill it with SJW nonsense like lesbians in order to virtue signal how progressive you are.

    That way when it only sells like 7 million copies in the first week, they can blame it on gamergate.

    That's apparently the gist of the thread so far.

  • I'm sure I'll hear if I left anything out. I really did take a lot of time getting to the bottom of the issue though.