The Naughty Dog Agenda



  • @siegeh Why are you addressing me with these points, I said let's assume your story.


  • Banned

    First page and the guy's already been called sperglord weirdo who has no life.

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    OT: It's very obvious that they have an agenda, they even said it themselves. I don't like when they bring in politically charged topics into video games, that's not why I play them. It's not a deal breaker when it comes to me buying the game, if it's good then it's good but I hate the fact that everything has to be about genders, race, and politics, I'm just tired of it all.

    With that said I'm sure TLOU2 will be a great game even if it oozes ''Look how progressive we are!!'' from the developers.



  • @mcgeezaks said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    I don't like when they bring in politically charged topics into video games, that's not why I play them.

    That's the thing I find hilarious.

    What "politically charged topic" is being brought into TLOU 2? If you're referring to the fact that Ellie has a girlfriend, how is this having a political agenda? Naughty Dog aren't the ones making a big deal out of it, you guys are!

    The main character of this game just happens to be a lesbian girl. It's not supposed to be revolutionary, it's just a normal thing that's part of our world. Homosexuality isn't the theme of the game, is it? That's just a character trait she has, among many others. She could be heterosexual and kissing a guy in this trailer and the rest story would be exactly the same.

    They had Nathan Drake who was very much a generic gung-ho straight white dude as a lead for 4 games, now they want to mix things up with a lesbian white girl. That's all there is to it. It's not even a matter of diversity but merely of variety.

    The only people making it political are the people complaining about it.



  • Man, the Yoshi and Birdo relationship in Mario Tennis must really piss you guys off.


  • Banned

    @axel said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    What "politically charged topic" is being brought into TLOU 2? If you're referring to the fact that Ellie has a girlfriend, how is this having a political agenda? Naughty Dog aren't the ones making a big deal out of it, you guys are!

    They aren't? Is that why half of the E3 trailer was about Ellie being a lesbian? They're the ones making her being a lesbian a big deal, not ''us guys'', whatever you meant by that. I don't know how you got that from my comment, if I thought it was a big deal then I wouldn't be buying the game.

    @axel said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    The main character of this game just happens to be a lesbian girl. It's not supposed to be revolutionary

    Yet they're acting like it is.

    @axel said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    Homosexuality isn't the theme of the game, is it?

    Could've fooled me.

    @axel said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    hey had Nathan Drake who was very much a generic gung-ho straight white dude as a lead for 4 games

    Yet he won the best protagonist on this very forum (I don't like him either).

    @axel said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    now they want to mix things up with a lesbian white girl.

    Oh yeah, they made that very clear.

    @axel said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    The only people making it political are the people complaining about it.

    Sure buddy.


  • Banned

    @axel Pretty much.
    The part I find funny is that people pretend this is something new.
    Somebody mentioned earlier that it happened to the comic book industry... but the thing is, comics were ALWAYS political.
    X-Men started off as a pretty heavy handed analog for racism in America.
    Captain America has been punching Nazis since before most of us were born.
    Wonder Woman was always an icon of female empowerment.
    The Black Panther was literally named after a Black Rights movement founded that same year.

    None of this was as mild, hidden or subversive as you guys pretend it was. You just complain about it more.



  • @mcgeezaks said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    They aren't? Is that why half of the E3 trailer was about Ellie being a lesbian? They're the ones making her being a lesbian a big deal

    How the hell is the trailer about Ellie being a lesbian?? We already know she is from the previous game, it's not even like it's a big reveal.

    What the trailer shows is her having found a place in a new society, having made friends and even a girlfriend, and being at a party, all of which illustrates she's finally at peace in a safe environment after all the horrors of the first game, and has probably been there for quite a while. She has formed strong bonds with these people and they are what she surely now considers her family. Which serves as a huge contrast with the gameplay section where she's all alone, full of rage and savagely murdering people.

    THAT is what the trailer is about.

    If all you took away from it is "Ugh they're shoving the fact she's a lesbian down our throats", then I repeat, YOU are the one looking for a problem.

    If she kissed a dude you wouldn't say they're making her heterosexuality the theme of the game, would you? So ask yourself why it irks you so much.



  • @mcgeezaks said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    Is that why half of the E3 trailer was about Ellie being a lesbian?

    Actually, nearly none of it was "about" her being a lesbian. About 10 and 3/4 minutes of the 11:53 was about how people should be fucking terrified of her because she's a human slaughterhouse.



  • @el-shmiablo Wonder Woman roots are SnM and that's not Sun and Moon


  • Banned

    @axel said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    How the hell is the trailer about Ellie being a lesbian?? We already know she is from the previous game, it's not even like it's a big reveal.

    Not the entire thing but a big focus is on her being lesbian, obviously.

    @axel said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    If all you took away from it is "Ugh they're shoving the fact she's a lesbian down our throats", then I repeat, YOU are the one looking for a problem.

    I never said that, you're just assuming the worst out of me.

    @axel said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    If she kissed a dude you wouldn't say they're making her heterosexuality the theme of the game, would you?

    Why would I? Being straight is the norm.

    @axel said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    So ask yourself why it irks you so much.

    I'll say it again, if it did bother me ''so much'' I wouldn't buy the game.



  • Not sure if it's quite what people are looking for with the "tell me a game that was made worse" thing, but the Hainly Abrams character in Mass Effect Andromeda comes to mind. There was no purpose to that character really, her primary reason for being in the game was being Trans.

    https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-03-28-mass-effect-andromeda-is-another-failure-for-trans-representation

    I think this is ultimately the same point that a lot are fearing. There's no denying that Ellies sexuality has been placed front and centre, in both the Left Behind DLC and the trailer at E3. But I think there's a difference between a token character and the main character of a videogame. If it's a deeply personal story, that characters sexuality may very well come up, it certainly comes up in Uncharted all the time and those stories aren't all that personal, with the exception of 4. How "forced" it feels will most likely depend on the execution.



  • @tokyoslim said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    Man, the Yoshi and Birdo relationship in Mario Tennis must really piss you guys off.

    On the contrary, I'd happily have lesbian leads in my next three games if it all appears like a natural choice. Not interested in the ones done by people openly admitting that some sort of change is long overdue.



  • @mcgeezaks said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    Being straight is the norm.

    The norm is that there's straight, gay, bisexual, trans, asexual, and a whole host of other variations of sexuality, gender, and ethnicity.



  • @mcgeezaks Some of those "you" were the general you, I was addressing the people who think making a lead character homosexual automatically means having a political agenda and should be denounced.



  • @sheria
    You're saying "I'm ok with gay characters as long as they don't happen because someone wants to write a gay character." Seems like a very conveniently impossible bar to get over.


  • Banned

    @tokyoslim said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    The norm is that there's straight, gay, bisexual, trans, asexual, and a whole host of other variations of sexuality, gender, and ethnicity.

    Not sure what you're implying or trying to argue about but when it comes to sexuality, hetero is the norm.

    @axel said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    I was addressing the people who think making a lead character homosexual automatically means having a political agenda and should be denounced.

    Nothing wrong with having a gay character in your game unless it feels forced. You have to wonder why they would replace a seasoned host with a lesbian blogger who doesn't play video games for their Q&A/presentation of the game or why the only person Druckmann handpicked to be a VA just happened to be trans and a ''SJW''.



  • @tokyoslim said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    @sheria
    You're saying "I'm ok with gay characters as long as they don't happen because someone wants to write a gay character." Seems like a very conveniently impossible bar to get over.

    Not what I said.



  • @sheria Then you're failing to either understand the issue, or you're purposefully obfuscating it.

    There's nothing forced about Ellie that isn't also Forced about Nathan Drake. If you're holding up her sexuality as being forced, then so is his. Both of them are fictitious characters that were written. One of them is not "more natural" than the other. All heterosexual characters who have relationships in games are written, just like all the gay ones are.



  • @sheria said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    I'd happily have lesbian leads in my next three games if it all appears like a natural choice.

    @mcgeezaks said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    Nothing wrong with having a gay character in your game unless it feels forced.

    I think that's the thing right there.

    How does Ellie being a lesbian feel forced or not a natural choice? Why can't a character be gay or a girl or black just for the hell of it? Why are white straight male characters the norm, but any other character type has to justify its existence somehow?

    Like I said earlier, for me it's only a matter of variety, it's cool to play as all sorts of characters in all sorts of games.

    Basically, some people are saying "Why?" while others are saying "Why not?"



  • @mcgeezaks said in The Naughty Dog Agenda:

    Not sure what you're implying or trying to argue about but when it comes to sexuality, hetero is the norm.

    If by "norm" you mean the majority - then yes. So your argument is that media should only reflect the majority? That being the case, all Videogames should be about Han Chinese people. Since, on this planet, being Chinese is the norm. If you think that it's ok to write games with Western protagonists in them because they are aimed at a Western market - then it's also ok for videogames to have non-straight protagonists in them, because they are appealing to people who are either not straight, or the people like me who don't define a person's whole worth and motivation based on who they kiss.

    If by "norm" you mean "normal" and you believe homosexuality, bisexuality, and etc. to be abnormal - then you're incorrect. Various sexual orientations are historically prevalent in all cultures, and in most species with developed sexuality. Homosexuality is a normal subset of human sexuality.


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