Censorship topic (out of the news thread)



  • @luka Yeah, having them move an office to the porn capitol of the world influences censorship? I don't buy it.

    Game consoles being able to be sold in the largest game market in the world and the added cost of keeping up with multiple RCs? Much more likely.

    Money is the simplest answer to the changes, and the Chinese market is larger than the US market. We're ~25%, they're right up at 50% of the worldwide market.

    When you fight censorship in China, you fight the Chinese government, not a ratings board. Sony is making a business decision, as did Valve, as did Ubi. Is it a bad one? Yes. Will they change the policy? Maybe, Valve and Ubi did. But right now Sony is riding high on amazing revenues and first party games raking in cash. They don't need a third party creating a political problem with potentially 50% of their sales revenue.



  • @sazime We will see. They pissed off a great number of gamers in their home country, meanwhile Nintendo is more than accepting of these titles without needless censorship. I wouldn't be surprised to see Sony losing a good number of buyers early on in the next generation thanks to these changes.



  • @luka I get that, and I get the frustration, but regarding Nintendo: their games have Chinese specific releases that come out on a special, region specific Nvidia Shield. Nintendo has been region locking titles forever, and it made transitioning to China very simple for them when the console ban was lifted in 2015.



  • @luka I don't have a way or data to prove this, but I also find it hard to believe that they are pissing off a 'great' number of fans in Japan, this games are niche even for the japanese market (going by media crate numbers less than 100k sales), so it is a dedicated and vocal (just like in the west) but very minor fanbase that Sony may have seen as expendable, again I'm not basing this on data so if there's something to actually prove it is a bigger deal I'm willing to take this back.

    And completely agree with @Sazime , this is most likely a business decision, for some reason (honestly hadn't considered China but that is a fantastic point) Sony has determined that it is a better business decision to potentially alienate a niche market in favor of expanding markets or the possible PR cost, whether it will prove to be correct in that aspect I can't say right now, but the likelyhood that this is motivated by financial over ideological reasons sounds more likely to me, not to say the other may not be a factor at all, I just don't think it is the leading factor.



  • @hanabi the fact that they have the right to exist doesn't mean they have the right to be on the platform of their choosing without the platform holder approval though.

    As for the second part, I'm willing to admit that is mostly a subjective opinion and I'm not going to say the will of the majority has to be imposed over that of minorities, but this is something I personally see as a non issue and what has been lost as lacking in any value so from my personal stance I can't help but see it that way.



  • I'm living in germany and I will never understand why (especially in US) violence in media and guns / weapons in your neighbourhood are more accepted than some nudity and "sexual innuendo" including their representations in games.

    I mean... we all are nude under our clothes (it is the most natural thing there is) and sex (with a consenting adult partner or with yourself) is a very healthy and fun activity. An orgasm helps you sleep better, combats stress, lowers risk of prostate cancer, reduces risk of heart attacks, helps staying in shape or loosing weight, improves your skin, strengthens the immune system, relieves headaches (and helps with migraines).

    Somehow it is a taboo to talk about or showcase sexuality in any way? But violence and weapons (tools designed to hurt and kill people) are ok?

    That is just crazy to me...

    Have platform holders like Sony or Steam legally the "right" to limit or prohibit sexual content in media on their platform, resulting in developers have to censor their product? Sadly, yes... especially konsoles are closed systems and the platform holder has the ultimate power to allow or disallow any content he wants. I wish it was otherwise, but it isn't.

    Could these platform holders or the game industry instead implement a more effective (and needed) system for youth protection? Also, yes... but currently it is more cost effective (and socially accepted) for them to just censor games and government officials aren't interested either to "defend" or at least "regulate" the rights of developers to include sexual content in their games (while nobody cares about violence in games).

    All that doesn't mean, that there aren't some disgusting, sexist and / or degrading "sex games" and (due to the still mainly male audience) an overpresentation of female objectification in sexual content or that everybody has to like (and buy) games with sexual content. But there is also no real social discussion about these topics either, because the easy way is to just censor or prohibit sexual contents in games.

    At the moment this mainly affects sexual content in games. In the future it may include other controversial topics (see Youtube and their policies regarding not monetizing "undesirable" for example "political" topics).



  • So the Chinese Ethic board seems to be looking at some very popular games and not quite liking a lot in them, from what I understand this hasn't led to any actions yet, but it certainly seems like something that could have a big effect on decisions moving forward if these games do end banned or having to make changes, at least for the chinese market.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/a4w3ux/chinas_ethics_board_reviews_20_popular_online/



  • Really tough topic to tackle. My two cents is, like some others, I'm not familiar with the titles that are being censored so I'm personally not being effected too much. While those games don't interest me I don't think they should be banned or censored. However, if the platform doesn't want those games on their system that is their right to deny them or ask for them to be altered to be sold on their platform.

    If this pisses you off, let Sony know. Write them on twitter and anywhere else you can, don't buy their products. Buy products that do support your interest or support not censoring games. Also understand that not everyone is going to be as passionate about this as you may be. Others, I'd bet a large portion, won't see this as an issue, but I do think it's important to know that this is happening.



  • Censorship is never good, ever... Change my mind



  • @the_andredal

    But... but... those games that I never would buy offend me personally! Therefore they should be censored/banned! /s



  • @themarcv I've already abandoned Sony. I got Tetris Effect used solely because of these policies and I don't intend to pick up any future releases beyond that. If I do, it's going to be the same deal where I get it secondhand. My PS4 isn't even connected to the internet at this point.



  • if Sony continues this, i will switch to Xbox next generation



  • @hanabi

    And that's completely in your right to do. If this issue is where you draw the line, draw the line like you have. I would even tell Sony that these choices have made you no longer want their products. The only thing that is kind of collateral damage is the devs of the games you buy used. They had no say in what Sony does/doesn't allow but you buying their game used basically means they get nothing from your purchase,however that is just how this industry is right now.



  • @the_andredal

    If that's the breaking point for you, you should. Just curious, would this stance be because you personally were looking forward to the games that are being censored or just on the general principle.

    This issue for me hasn't gotten anywhere near the point were I'm wiling to boycott the system (I honestly just love their first party stuff too much) but I wonder where others fall. I don't like censorship but the honest truth for me is that it'd have to get really bad before I'd be willing to boycott the system. Like I stated before, I don't like censorship but I also feel like if a company doesn't want to carry a title or will only carry it if things are censored that's in their rights. I didn't like the no blood in MK for SNES, but I still played and bought SNES games.



  • It's the principle of censorship. I stood with Sony because of the anti consumer stuff MS did with the start of Xbox's last generation. I am willing to think of the idea if they continue this path. Because last time they got cocky, we got the PS3 that was overpriced and way too complicated console for devs



  • @the_andredal Mhm. Microsoft and Nintendo have been making the right moves, while Sony has been routinely fucking up - hard. I refuse to buy any PS game new, unless the game has zero censorship. The next console will probably be a year+ wait once it releases, unless Sony reverts these asinine changes.



  • @luka
    Well that change petition I posted (or I think I posted here) said they would have some Skype discussion with the person behind these policies, and I think they are going to stream it



  • @dmcmaster I must have missed that. Got another link? Would love to see that live.



  • @luka
    I'll see if I can find it again.


  • Banned

    Don't worry, guys.

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    Your waifus are safe.