Censorship topic (out of the news thread)



  • What game can I torture a "7" year old, none because of censorship.


  • Banned

    You know what?

    0_1545102759634_2015-07-07-115309.jpg

    You're right.

    0_1545102803457_senran-kagura-intimacy-kafuru-featured.jpg

    There is absolutely no difference at all.

    0_1545102822937_srslywtfisthisshit.jpg

    This is all perfectly fine.



  • @mbun first of all I want to say that the tone of some people here is really despective (not you mbun) and I feel that's low even if I agree with the arguments, so I would say we should try to keep low blows out of the arguments.

    That said my problem with sexuality in games is not because of the content itself, but more because of context and tone.

    I don't have any issue with having some character sex appeal being used in a game or for suggestive content if it is well justified and not a core aspect of the experience, for instance I like Bayonetta or even Lollipop Chainsaw, however when there's a mini game specifically designed around groping characters or the whole premise of games like Gal Gun, yeah that makes me uncomfortable.

    On the side of violence, first I think it rarely reaches a similar point where the violence is so extreme that I have an issue with it, and second even when it does a lot of time it doesn't involve humans (ex Doom) or the context is such that I don't have as much of a hard time disassociating myself from the game, the parts of GTAV that disturbed me meet both of this criteria and I was very uncomfortable with them.

    I can't say that I'm knowledgeable about the specific examples you mention in there, and I can't help but agree that cases like that would be an unfortunate consequence and unfair to any woman found on that situation, that said I can't say I fully buy it as the reason for why everyone would find such content appealing. Most porn is related to power fantasies (at least that's my understanding from what I've seen of studies on the matter, certainly not an expert) and it is an unfortunate truth that child porn is a reality and there's a big market for it, and people that are looking to consume it, and I can't believe that it is completely separate from the market of some of the games in questions and that it can't contribute to feeding this sick fetishes (child porn to be specific), now I cannot say what percentage may fall on which side, I would like to think it is a very small percentage that falls on the child fetish side, but I can't really say for sure and that is where a lot of my discomfort with this comes from.

    With all that said, do I believe that this games making me uncomfortable mean they should be banned?

    No, I don't believe my believes on this have to be used to police content, but I'm perfectly ok with a private company taking what measures they find necessary to provide the content they find acceptable, I find it ridiculous to expect a company to be fully compliant to this simply because of a principle of some of the consumers.



  • So, there's a few things I want to touch on.

    I think everyone is in agreement here - none of us would want a game where you're doing sexually explicit things to a child. Yet there have been a few comments here that say censorship is never good, ever and frustration at some of the recent changes. What if someone did try to release a game with children involved in such a way? Should censorship step in then? Or should we be exposed to that as well, since nothing should ever be censored?

    Those "against" censorship in this thread would probably draw a line in the sand at some point too. For some, a brief sentence saying a character is actually a 200 year old god is enough context for them to bypass their looks and behavior but for many, it isn't. To many, it comes off as pedophilia or eerily close to that and it's hard to object to that when the character is being as child-like as possible.

    Different people are going to draw that line at different points but there's also a lot of slippery slope thought patterns that seem to be attached to it as well. I'm always opposed to that sort of fear-mongering (it's prevalent in politics) because the actions of now don't always lead to the ideas of tomorrow. Any time any sort of change or law is proposed, people will say it's the end of their way of life as they know it and they're usually wrong. If the censorship continues to increase and begins to affect things that don't involve basically the depiction of small children being groped, then sure, let's stand up for the right of expression.

    For me personally? I'd much rather shotgun a demon in the face than rub an anime girl for affection points - I'm sure some will say it boils down to that Western preference of violence over sex but the context matters quite a bit.



  • @el-shmiablo said in Censorship topic (out of the news thread):

    This is all perfectly fine.

    There's nothing wrong with being uncomfortable with images like that or even thinking they're offensive but imposing your morals on a title aimed at a demographic you couldn't possibly be further from helps nobody. Why should Americans be allowed to police how Japanese think? Should the Japanese be allowed to police our enjoyment of violent games too? The torture scene from GTAV was actually cut entirely in the Japanese release, just as one example.



  • @axel said:

    Going from "It's fucked up to fantasize about 7-year-olds"

    That's not what he said. He said they appear to be 7 years old to him, which is judging them based on a body type. That is directly implying those body types make a fully grown woman look as though she's a kid, and because that weirds them out, nobody should be allowed to view it sexually.

    You're purposely omitting a very important part of his message: "looks and acts like a 7-year-old".

    If you're hung up on the acting part, I don't know what to tell you. That's a whole separate conversation about policing people on how they're allowed to act. I'm personally not into the fake ditzy, cutesy acting types, but some girls obviously lean hard into that because there are guys who find it attractive, and I'm not going to judge either side for that. People have different ideals for personality in partners, and I certainly don't understand some of them, but I don't think people are wrong for liking tsunderes or whatever, even if that stuff is a bit silly.

    portray girls as innocent, shy, vulnerable, obedient and just overall childish, and at the same time sexualize them

    I don't see the problem with any of this if the fully grown, of age girls are choosing to act like this or just are naturally like this despite their age. If you're turning this to be about how men write female characters to act in some of these mediums for the sole sake of coming off as easy and vulnerable, that's another argument for another topic, and one I'd actually probably take the same side as you on. If it is justified for the character or in a game with a wide range of characters representing a wider spectrum of female forms, then I don't see this as a problem however.

    Being an adult doesn't mean you have to be super serious and mature all the time. You can still maintain a playful attitude, and depending on your life to the point can maintain shreds of innocence. Have a quote I like from C.S. Lewis:

    "Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."

    That is to say you aren't forced to stop having fun once you're an adult. Look at Kyle Bosman. He's constantly trying to stir up the ordinary and mundane by making little bits and games with it. There's nothing wrong with that. He's choosing to make fun in his life this way while maintaining his adult responsibilities. Likewise, if people choose to act a certain way in the bedroom that makes them feel more comfortable, who are we to judge? Long as all parties involved are consenting adults, it really is none of our business what they're doing in there.

    Naturally those types of people wouldn't mind equal representation in media, and sure there's always the scare of these kinds of things making their way into the wrong hands and leading to underage people experiencing things they shouldn't and filling their heads with ideas they're not mature enough to handle, but this is and always has been a department where game ratings and good old fashioned parenting come in to prevent this, not censorship. Likewise, it is just as easy for a kid who's parents aren't on point to get their hands on overly violent video games currently, and the potential consequences of that are much harsher in the long run since once someone is dead that's it. But our society takes that chance and trusts parents to watch their kids closer. Should be no different with sexual media. For adults but controlled to keep away from kids.

    Sure, you can lie to yourself and say "Nuh uh, her official bio says she's 18", but we all know what's going on here.

    So what will you say to the real life fully grown women with those body types who choose to act that way? I mean, when it isn't being exposed to or harming actual children, I'm not going to go around policing people on how they're allowed to act. Personally, I think those people are just better at separating fantasy from reality than you.

    @iboshow said:

    What game can I torture a "7" year old, none because of censorship.

    True, most games don't allow harming children, because people rightfully find it disturbing. When really, all violence against fellow human beings should be seen as disturbing but people are so desensitized to it from media. There's definitely games with underage characters being harmed by the world around them though. Ellie is originally 14 in The Last of Us and goes through all kinds of twisted shit due to the setting of that franchise.

    @El-Shmiablo said:

    You know what? You're right. There is absolutely no difference at all.

    Not familiar with those games. Just looks like random kink stuff to me. Second pic even says she's a "mature young woman" which implies she's of age even if her body type appears otherwise to you.

    @bard91 said:

    the tone of some people here is really despective (not you mbun) and I feel that's low even if I agree with the arguments, so I would say we should try to keep low blows out of the arguments

    I can agree with that. Sorry if I come off that way. Sometimes I get irked reading stuff people say when I've had close friends through my life who have dealt with the kind of complexes that develop when the body you're naturally given doesn't match up with societies standards for acceptable beauty and get a little heated trying to make people understand why the things they're saying can actually be very negative and emotionally damaging to such individuals who just want to be treated like anyone else and not feel like people are wrong for feeling attracted to them or they're not allowed to maintain adult relationships.

    my problem with sexuality in games is not because of the content itself, but more because of context and tone

    Always a case by case basis that's hard to judge from the outside, so I try not to be overly judgmental on this, but I can definitely agree on this front. I've seen things that do it from a very disrespectful, offensive standpoint where the characters are written to be nothing more than sexual objects, and sure that's sometimes the nature of what's essentially porn, but even in that field I think it is important to craft your characters to be less one dimensional.

    I don't have any issue with having some character sex appeal being used in a game or for suggestive content if it is well justified and not a core aspect of the experience, for instance I like Bayonetta or even Lollipop Chainsaw, however when there's a mini game specifically designed around groping characters or the whole premise of games like Gal Gun, yeah that makes me uncomfortable.

    Exactly! Couldn't agree with you more. Only thing I'd add is I still see games like Gal Gun as just dumb fun, but I'd hope the creators of such games would equally provide for consumers who would want the same dumb fun with male characters instead. I think often those games don't happen, because in the west at least there seems to be a much smaller audience for it currently, but Otome games sell pretty damn well in Japan, so I think it could be big here too if people got adjusted to the concept and we all stopped making fun of each other for daring to enjoy games like this.

    On the side of violence, first I think it rarely reaches a similar point where the violence is so extreme that I have an issue with it

    The recent examples I can think of would be the modern Tomb Raider series that people described as "torture porn" and even worse that one extremely violent Last of Us II Trailer that didn't land the way they expected it to with people I guess? I forget what event that was shown at, but that was too much for the general public imo. One thing if you buy a mature game and see that, but you shouldn't see that level of violence during a press conference.

    doesn't involve humans (ex Doom)

    Specifically in the case of Doom, we know we're slaying evil demons, but even for stuff like Monster Hunter I get a little sad if the justifications for hunting the wild monsters isn't there, although thankfully they usually are. I guess another example would be James Cameron's Avatar where humans are okay obliterating the Na'vi for their resources because they're just seen as monster savages. That movie clearly paints the humans as the bad guys for good reason there, which is league above most media involving humans versus nonhumans.

    it is an unfortunate truth that child porn is a reality and there's a big market for it, and people that are looking to consume it

    Unfortunate is an understatement. There's no forgiving people who perpetuate that business. I hate to spin your point, which I agree with, this way, but murder is also a reality in our world. People murder one another every day, and overly violent media does in some part enable this behavior from people by normalizing violent acts. We can do our best to control it with age ratings, but at the end of the day there's lots of factors in how people develop mentally, so it is going to happen. Even if we censored and prohibited all violent media, people would still murder one another, and the same goes for this kind of sexual media.

    I'm perfectly ok with a private company taking what measures they find necessary to provide the content they find acceptable

    I think the most important side here is that they're doing this to placate an audience who disapproves of this type of media which is ultimately more profitable for them than allowing these experiences on their platform. Also, I think there's an inherent difference to getting upset at Sony for not themselves making these kind of games they aren't personally interested in versus simply allowing developers who are to release their vision of their games on their platform. Nobody is telling Sony to start making lewd games. I take issue with Sony policing other devs on what they should be making.

    @SabotageTheTruth said:

    What if someone did try to release a game with children involved in such a way? Should censorship step in then?

    No, because those devs should be locked up for the rest of their lives and any existing version of that content should be destroyed as soon as possible. Real children should never be exposed to that sort of stuff. I get uncomfortable when child actors have to be exposed to fictional situations like that in television and movies, but that's another topic too.

    Those "against" censorship in this thread would probably draw a line in the sand at some point too.

    I draw a line with stuff, especially sexual stuff shoved into a game that didn't market itself as such, but I never think censorship is the solve. I think critics and users flaming the devs for what they've done is the solution. Let their vision come out, but if it is a really bad vision, let people flame it and let the devs lose alot of money for how poorly their game performs for pulling a bait and switch. The only censorship I'm personally on board for is promotional censorship. Censored trailers, censored box art, and so on for both overly violent and overly sexual games as to not expose people to things they don't want to see in passing. In the case of box art though, it is good for devs to be mindful and offer things such as printable / reversible covers or special editions not offered in normal marketplaces for people who do want the raunchy covers.

    there's also a lot of slippery slope thought patterns that seem to be attached to it as well. I'm always opposed to that sort of fear-mongering (it's prevalent in politics) because the actions of now don't always lead to the ideas of tomorrow

    I agree, but in the reverse line of thought as you take that. I don't think overly violent media on it's own leads to an increase of murdering psychopaths, and I don't think overly sexual media of young looking characters on it's own leads to an increase of pedophiles. It is all about context, warning labels, control of where the product lands, proper societal discussion on the important topics, etc.

    For me personally? I'd much rather shotgun a demon in the face than rub an anime girl for affection points

    Same, but I'd also rather pat a cute anime girl on the head than mow down waves of human opponents in a war game. Like you said, the context is very important.



  • @mbun said in Censorship topic (out of the news thread):

    Only thing I'd add is I still see games like Gal Gun as just dumb fun, but I'd hope the creators of such games would equally provide for consumers who would want the same dumb fun with male characters instead. I think often those games don't happen, because in the west at least there seems to be a much smaller audience for it currently, but Otome games sell pretty damn well in Japan

    I love Gal*Gun, it's a really fun little game and yes, its aesthetics are adorable and that's a part of the appeal. I'd just as quickly snap up a version shooting males, but it would have to keep its cuteness, which would ultimately mean either some kind of chibi thing going on, or the guys your shooting still looking rather young and childlike.



  • @mbun Please, stop twisting my words and extrapolating.

    I never talked about real people who choose to act one way or another, I never talked about policing anybody's behaviour, I never talked about what people should do in their bedroom, I never talked about "adulthood", I never even said whether I was for or against censoring those games.

    I was simply addressing your rant towards @El-Shmiablo that I felt was out of line and had nothing to do with what he said.

    You say I'm "hung up on the acting part", but you clearly got hung up on the looking part, so all I did was explain what he meant in his message. Which is (I assume, correct me if I'm wrong) that creating fictional characters for the sole purpose of being masturbated at (upon? towards?), depicting them as young and vulnerable (whether it's visually, through their clothes, attitude, etc.), and pretending it's all ok because they're "officially" over 18 is extremely disingenuous. We all know they feed into various fetishes that are very widespread in Japanese culture, let's not pretend there's anything more to it.

    That's it, that's all he meant in an exaggerated way. Nothing about body-shaming, sexual harassment towards petite girls and whatnot.


  • Banned

    I want to make a few things clear.
    I have no problem with these things existing. I personally think they are incredibly cringey and awkward, but hey man what are ya gonna do.
    My main point of contention is that quite a number of people are trying to justify this instead of calling it like it is.
    If you like to rub on some lolis, hey man you do you, but please don't pretend that it is something other than what it is: softcore porn.
    I won't even pretend that I don't enjoy myself some fan service (one of my favorite 3DS games is Code of Princess) or occasionally watch some hentai, but I am cognisent of what these things are for.

    And for the love of god please don't take C.S. Lewis that out of context ever again. There is a mountain of difference between enjoying childish things and beating off to underage anime girls.

    Also a thanks to @Axel for expressing my posts much more eloquently than I can.



  • Gonna keep this simple as short on time.
    Way I look at it there are movies I find that make me uncomfortable for one reason or another, weather it be because of violent or sexual content. but I wouldn't do anything that completely prevents someone from watching said films or TV.
    I mean hell as much as I enjoy my big titty anime games, I've yet to watch Game of Thrones after someone told me around the time the third season (I think it was the third) that "Theres like 3 rape scenes an episode"
    With that said it's not just sexual content, I still remember the first time watching Saving Private Ryan and was just about to throw up once the guy was trying to reattach his arm (granted I was like 8 the first time I watched it).
    Or Tusk a movie that for some reason completely unnerves me, yet I have no idea why. Granted it's a movie that I've said I'm glad I saw it, but probably wont see again anytime soon (still haven't).

    Now there are people that enjoy all those for various reasons, but to say someone shouldn't be able buy, rent, stream any of them because they dont align with my or others opinions or beliefs is wrong.

    Now admittedly I do think very, very lite censorship such as Senran Kaguea omitting ages is fine, or other games offering violence filters (even if 9x10 it's just removing blood effects or making it green or blue)



  • @axel said:

    Please, stop twisting my words and extrapolating.

    Not my intention. I tried to follow what you were saying closely and point out the specific things you said I was responding to so we could avoid any confusion like this.

    I was simply addressing your rant towards @El-Shmiablo that I felt was out of line and had nothing to do with what he said.

    And I addressed you addressing my rant. (this is getting confusing) Maybe it seems out of line solely from what I quoted this time, because I'm not quoting every single other instance of him doing this, but he's always likening anime girls with specific body types to little underage girls and shaming them.

    You say I'm "hung up on the acting part"

    You specifically bolded "and acts" and claimed I was purposely omitting discussion around it, when I didn't think it was worth going into before. Then I go into it, and you seem upset I went into it. I'm getting mixed messages on what you want from me here.

    all I did was explain what he meant in his message

    I don't need to go back into it, but his message is harmful to grown women with those body types. That's why I "got hung up on the looking part". To be fair, it was a rant that's been building for some time, but this if the place, if anywhere, to go into that with someone who might not realize the things he's saying can emotionally damage people.

    pretending it's all ok because they're "officially" over 18 is extremely disingenuous

    We're not talking about a Card Captor Sakura Doujin with "The characters contained within are 18+" inside the cover. Everyone knows that's bullshit. We're talking about anime girls in video games. Maybe there's some games where they're designed to be much younger appearing then their listed age, but most will label them as the exact ages they meant to be, (unless it is localized differently for the west) and usually go so far in depth about their personal profile that you'll know all kinds of useless fluff like their Blood Type. My point though, is that it often is a difference in Body Types. I don't want to racially stereotype Japanese people, but it is no secret that compared to some western races, their Body Types tend to differ in ways in which they are often smaller in frame and stature. Anime characters are often based on Japanese people, so they often share these traits. Outside Japan, it seems this often leads to confusion. Especially when paired with stuff like chibi styles and such.

    That's it, that's all he meant in an exaggerated way. Nothing about body-shaming, sexual harassment towards petite girls and whatnot.

    Intended or not, that's what he's doing. That's why I pointed it out finally. Fine intentions or not, you have to point out when people are acting in a way that's offensive if you want to see any change in their behavior.

    @El-Shmiablo said:

    I have no problem with these things existing.

    I find that hard to believe with how far you go out of your way to put people down who enjoy those things. Your very next line is:

    I personally think they are incredibly cringey and awkward

    Just let people enjoy what they choose to enjoy if it isn't hurting anyone. You don't need to bully people over it based on your own views of what is being enjoyed. I can't tell you not to do this, but when you say you have no problem with it existing, that doesn't line up with the way you've acted.

    If you like to rub on some lolis, hey man you do you, but please don't pretend that it is something other than what it is: softcore porn.

    I don't think anyone is denying that this stuff is basically porn. That's why everyone agrees it should be rated M and kept away from minors. I mean some people definitely enjoy it for the goofy dumbness of the spectacle and not for "release", but I don't see anyone here ignoring the sexual sides of it. It is hard to generalize though, because if we talk about patting your troops or whatever that they took out of Fire Emblem, I remember people being upset, not that they couldn't physically interact with their troops anymore, but because of the lore social interactions locked behind this that were no longer accessible with the removal of that feature. That had nothing to do with "porn" and everything to do with story elements locked behind a dumb thing being stripped from the game. There's a whole spectrum censorship can affect, even when it only targets a thing most don't even care about.

    And for the love of god please don't take C.S. Lewis that out of context ever again.

    It wasn't out of context. I was explaining specifically that adults don't have to act mature and uptight all the time, which extends to intimate activities they engage with their also of legal age partners.

    There is a mountain of difference between enjoying childish things and beating off to underage anime girls.

    Again, just because they're of a certain body type doesn't make them underage. Your examples even included a girl overtly expressing she was NOT underage. So please stop throwing out words for the sake of shock value when that is not what is being discussed here. That is not what I was talking about when I brought up the quote.

    @DMCMaster said:

    I've yet to watch Game of Thrones after someone told me around the time the third season (I think it was the third) that "Theres like 3 rape scenes an episode"

    I don't remember quite that many, but I do remember some intense sexual scenes in GoT that made me momentarily uncomfortable. Thankfully, I don't remember any lingering on too long. The show has many disturbing implications and actions throughout though. Viewer discretion is advised.

    Tusk

    I think my SO wanted to watch that but we could never find a place to. If it is really that disturbing, then I'm kinda glad we never did.



  • Interesting discussion...

    Are there games that made me uncomfortable? Sure...

    Something like This War of Mine for example. Depicting a gruesome reality in a war torn country endangering "my" characters, who i got quite attached to during the game. But I would consider this a "good uncomfortable". It is meant to make me feel this way to deliver a message and it works great.

    Another example would be Alien Isolation. Man, this game is so tense. I got so uncomfortable just standing in a dark hallway, hearing all the creepy sounds around me, fearing the alien every step of the way. I had to stop every now and then, just to calm my nerves. And i loved it for that. So another example for "good uncomfortable".

    Regarding "bad uncomfortable"?

    Sometimes violence in games might be to much or in bad taste. Same way racism, sexism and other "isms" might be celebrated in a game and not depicted as aweful. That usually doesn't bother me. I'm an adult and can decide for myself if i want to continue playing such a game or even buy it in the first place. As long, as it doesn't break the law, there is no need to ban or censor the game. People (including developers) can have all kinds of stupid opinions (hey americans... happy with your president? ;-) ), but I don't have to agree with them and I can decide to don't even listen to them. So when a game does something, which rubs me morally the wrong way, I just don't buy it or stop playing. Best message you can send to any developer... don't give them your money.

    With sexual content, including all kinds of fetishes i usually don't have any problem. It is a fantasy and if this kind of fantasy excites you, then you do you. I even like sexual content in games... it is a nice diversion from the ever present violence in games and like i wrote earlier... sexuality is great and should not be taboo.

    Where it gets uncomfortable for me personally is the depiction of rape or sex with children as something good, so topics which are in real life not legal for a good reason. I understand, no real human is harmed in a game and it is still "just a fantasy", but the message rubs me the wrong way. Some japanese rpgs really test my boundaries in this way sometimes.

    I wish there would be a reliable process to define what content in games is still legal and what has to be restricted (for children or even adults). But again, no reason for censorship. Ban what is really illegal and allow everything else. Just limit access for children by helping parents to make an informed decision. But as an adult I want to be able to decide for myself and have the option to play the game as it was meant to be played (again: as long as it doesn't do something illegal). If we start with censorship, then there is no way to predict where it will be going. Today it might be just some "sexual content" but tomorrow? See youtube policies regarding "undesirable" content. But you could argue the same way for the decision what is legal and illegal (because humans are involved and we know how "great" the legal process works sometimes).

    Still, I hate censored games and usually won't buy them.



  • @guthwulf said:

    Today it might be just some "sexual content"

    And today isn't even just that. Look at China. They've censored Winnie the Pooh for goodness sake!


  • Banned

    @mbun They've censored Winnie literally because he was compared to the president in a meme of him walking with Barack Obama during a meeting.

    Also I would appreciate if in the future when you reply to me you not cherry pick quotes from my post that make it seem like I am "bullying" anime fans or fans of kusoge games. I know it doesn't help your argument to include the parts of my post where I specifically state I enjoy fanservice and hentai, but you aren't doing yourself any favours by being that disingenuous and trying to strawman me into something I am not.

    As a fan of anime I am allowed to be critical of it. I do not need to force myself to be naive enough to actually believe that, despite having the body of a child, mannerisms of a child, and generally being child-like in every way, that just because she is "officially over 18 the creator said so" that these characters are not meant to pander directly to loli fetishism.



  • @el-shmiablo said:

    I know it doesn't help your argument to include the parts of my post where I specifically state I enjoy fanservice and hentai

    I don't think that matters when you act the way you act regardless of it. Equivalent of a racist saying they have a black friend.

    As a fan of anime I am allowed to be critical of it.

    Yes.

    just because she is "officially over 18 the creator said so" that these characters are not meant to pander directly to loli fetishism

    Again, I'm not talking about Doujins that take known underage characters and apparently "age them up" even though you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Those things are banned from sites for very good reason. We're talking about when there's a flat chested anime character next to one who's chest defies the laws of gravity and you give people who dare to enjoy the flat chested one shit and liken them to people who are abusive to and dangerous around actual children, who deserve to be removed from society and possibly put down depending on their past actions. Have you ever noticed how you don't have a problem with the big breasted ones even if they act the exact same as the other one? It is extra fucked up when you consider girls develop way before they turn 18, so really there should be no difference between the two body types. If you're questioning one, you should be questioning both.


  • Banned

    @mbun
    Can you please stop with the strawmans? I'm not talking about doijins either. I'm literally talking about the games that have been censored, or games that feature lewd content with loli characters.
    I have not once compared loli fetishists to actual pedophiles. If you think that I have, then I am sorry but those are your projections and not mine.
    I think I'm done. You're clearly not interested in participating in this discussion and instead are just going to continue with your victim complex



  • @mbun said in Censorship topic (out of the news thread):

    I'm getting mixed messages on what you want from me here.

    I want you to re-read every message from the top and realize you've clearly misinterpreted them and over-reacted. Stop lecturing and giving bad intentions to people when they clearly have none. Stop changing the context and topic of discussion and cherry-picking parts or even single words from messages whenever it suits your needs.

    But clearly you're not gonna stop, so I'm done.



  • @el-shmiablo said in Censorship topic (out of the news thread):

    I'm literally talking about the games that have been censored, or games that feature lewd content with loli characters.

    All you've said so far is that you don't believe the age the characters are claimed to be, and you haven't done any job justifying why beyond Body Type or personality.

    I have not once compared loli fetishists to actual pedophiles. If you think that I have, then I am sorry but those are your projections and not mine.

    just projections apparently

    Projections huh?

    You're clearly not interested in participating in this discussion and instead are just going to continue with your victim complex

    You clearly aren't intending to change your offensive behavior either, since you still reply with stuff like

    beating off to underage anime girls

    to try and sway people on allowing you to body shame grown women and the people who find them attractive.

    @Axel said:

    I want you to re-read every message from the top and realize you've clearly misinterpreted them and over-reacted.

    I've read them. I've reread them. I've read between them. Unless you can point out where and why you feel I have overreacted, there's nothing more I can do for you. You left your arguments, and I've responded to them fairly and as clearly as I can without you pointing out specific parts for me to be even clearer about. I feel bad that you've gotten mixed up defending someone who shows no remorse and clearly intends to keep acting this way. The only reason I won't respond to every single line of something you say is that it would make this even unnecessarily longer, and even when I did respond to what you wanted me to respond to, it just made you more unimaginably upset. If you disagree with me, that's a take. I'm not playing games or twisting words as you're making me out to. I'm responding to topics as part of a larger discussion.

    Edit: Either way, I do feel this has gotten down to a personal level, and I regret that the heated topic took us there. I very much cannot complain about having my personal character attacked (seriously tho, I'm not trying to twist anybody's words, I just want us to discuss our opinions on this stuff as clear as possible) while I present @El-Shmiablo 's actions the way they have come off from my perspective, but all I can do is promise that going forward I am going to try my hardest not to hold any sort of lingering grudge towards him. Fair warning, that might be tested if he keeps acting as he has previously though.

    And to you @Axel I've tried my best to explain why I feel this way and assure you that this isn't some kind of deflection or whatever. Tried to even directly address what you think he meant and express why I disagree with that take on it to no avail sadly it seems. Even though you see this his way, your actions have not been the same as his, and for that reason I bear you zero ill will currently or going forward and take this as more of a misunderstanding between the two of us that hopefully we can work out or just let go eventually. You're your own person and allowed to believe what you will, but from my perspective there's no outward beef in your direction.

    This is a sensitive topic of many facets, so I hope we can stay patient with one another while trying to discuss our opinions.



  • I think, end of the day, this is Sony's, Nintendo's, Microsoft's, Steam's, GOG's, Epic game store's, etc. call to make. These are their platforms and if they don't want to carry a game for any reason it's their call. We might not like it or agree with it but it's their right to control what they sell to the public.

    I agree this decision seems like a business one where they think they will gain more good will by censoring or banning these games then by the money they would get from selling them.

    Maybe this is a bad idea, maybe this will blow up in their faces as a vast sea of players stop buying Sony's products and go to the services that cater to these titles. I personally don't think that's going to be the case. I think some gamers will go to other platforms but I don't think it'll hurt Sony much in the long run. Could this lead to more censorship, maybe. Do I fear they are going to censor the next COD or GTA, 100% NO. Those games make too much money, these games that are being censored don't.



  • @el-shmiablo I want to say that I am surprised that you would make such a disingenuous argument. However, I can't say that as it is perfectly in line with the character you clearly have shown yourself to be. I would go more in-depth, but Mbun has done an excellent job dismantling your "argument".

    @Axel Do you know what is also quite a leap of logic? Going from discussing things that are uncomfortable from shocking/unnerving content and talking about fondling a prepubescent child, a clearly illegal act that would not be acceptable anywhere. Not surprisingly, this content is not in the games that have been needlessly censored by Sony (y'know, the reason for this conversation to begin with) - the majority of which had already been approved by the ESRB and other rating boards.

    @SabotageTheTruth If a game involved pedophilic content the game would never be released due to the content being inherently illegal and those behind it would be placed behind bars as they rightfully should be.