Pokemon Sword/Shield (Switch)

  • @axel said:

    Have they announced how many brand new ones will be in this game?

    Not that I know of, and that's usually not something we find out until launch.

    @Hanabi I get your point of view, but I think of it like Zelda games frequently used to have like up to five years between each major entry, so as long as individual Pokemon manage to appear once within that period, it isn't that different. Plus, Pokemon Home is going to be running through this whole time and probably have options for interacting with those Pokemon.

  • @mbun Pokémon is more like 2 years though

  • @bigdude1 2 years is pretty much this weird transition to Switch. It was pretty much yearly before.

  • @mbun well its port, new, port , new. Yearly

  • @mbun Nintendo Should at least release a game like Pokemon Battle Revolution for the Wii. Have one game that features every Pokemon.

  • @bigdude1 Remakes aren't ports, and yes being able to use your bros in remakes will lessen the blow of not always being able to use them in the newest games.

    @Shoulderguy Pokemon Home sounds like it is going to be the new one stop destination. It won't just be a box like Bank.

    Junichi Masuda and Shigeru Ohmori revealed several details in the latest Famitsu interview:

    • Stated that Mega Evolutions and Z-Moves will not appear in Sword & Shield.
    • Masuda also said that including alternate forms, Pokémon hits 1,000 with these games.
    • Masuda on the Decision to Limit Pokémon Sword and Shield to the Galar Pokedex: He didn’t like the decision, but it was needed. He wanted to bring every single Pokémon to Sword and Shield but they wanted to focus on higher quality animations. Ohmori mentions this idea was proposed for Pokémon Sun and Moon.
    • According to Masuda, there is still no decision taken on bringing non-Galar Pokémon to Pokémon Sword & Shield via updates. All Pokémon will still have an active role in Pokémon Home.
    • According to Masuda, Pokémon Home would have some playable features. Will also have connections to future games.
    • Pokémon Home is the “Home” for all your Pokémon. If a Pokémon is compatible with a game, it will leave for an adventure. If the Pokémon is not native to a certain region because is too cold for them, then they will stay in “Home” waiting for their next adventure.

  • Now that I think about it, weren't all the pokemon models in XY/SM future-proofed by being way larger than the 3DS needed (or could handle, considering those games' performance framerate-wise in battle)? I'm not sure I buy the animations reasoning, or at the very least I don't think it was a good trade-off.

  • @hanabi Yeah, I think they just want to add more unique animations, not just walk cycles and battle idle animations.

  • While I'm very bummed about the whole no National Dex situation, I'm honestly pretty frustrated by the response to it. We don't fully know what they have planned for the models, and with all the news on crunch culture in the games industry I'm more than happy to give devs the benefit of the doubt when they say that adding in all the Pokemon from previous gens would be infeasible. This is my favorite franchise of all time, and despite the turns it's taken over the past 10ish years, I still trust them to make a game I'll enjoy.

  • @naltmank said in Pokemon Sword/Shield (Switch):

    This is my favorite franchise of all time,

    Digimon's Better. :3

  • Kind of nothing, but here's an official response to all the National Dex controversy.

  • I mean, you could at least be like, "We could potentially add them in as DLC." I guess Pokemon releases too often for DLC, though.

  • @inflorescence Pretty much. Hanging on one game would prevent work on the next two. I wish they could just talk more about Home now, because I have a feeling it'd help with this whole controversy, but it is one of those things where they won't talk about it until the right time to market it. Also, they probably don't want it to come off like they're downgrading the main games to strongarm people into buying Home, which people could easily think if they brought it up now.

  • I'm just an outsider looking in, as I won't play a Pokemon game again until they actually put some real effort into it, but I have to say hearing that they can't add all Pokemon because of essentially resources, for games that are projected to sell what at least 15 million copies, it just comes off to me as disinterest or straight up mediocrity.

  • @bard91 It is more of a time problem than a resources problem. In the two years development, they want to focus their time elsewhere versus balancing soon to be over 1,000 creatures, as well as making animations for them all, when they could spend the time making better custom animations for a smaller group. The effort is there. They just are placing it elsewhere versus maintaining all the creatures but having very little time to flesh out any other aspect of the game.

    Home will be the place designed to longterm carry all the monsters and hopefully maintain certain aspects like the Gotta Catch 'Em All™ (this catchphrase was actually invented for the west, in Japan it is basically just "Get Pokemon") National Dex, hopefully with accompanying certificates of accomplishing the task. Since Home isn't an every other year release and works more like games as a service, they can just keep updating and supporting it as new content is released instead of having to redo everything every two years, which makes the workload actually feasible.

    I just hope Home is fleshed out enough to make up for problems that occur when all the Pokemon aren't available through each mainline game anymore, like the ability to battle and breed Pokemon through Home where all of them are available to you. I don't even mind if the battling aspect has extremely basic animations. It can be like Showdown. Just needs to be there for people who want to battle with the full National Dex at their disposal in an official manner, kind of like an Unlimited format in a TCG game. That way Home can continue the "Unlimited" Meta as previous games did in the past, while new mainline games act as "Sets" with their own specific Meta developing around their limited Pokemon choices, which actually could be a huge boon for competitive variety if handled properly instead of always seeing the same Pokemon dominate the Meta.

    Breeding is the much harder thing to save through Home. Not every Pokemon available in the mainline games means certain breeding pairs that'd result in Egg Moves won't be possible to do through those games, which is where Home could come in and allow you to instead breed those pairs through that, with the ability to transfer a resulting Pokemon with an Egg Move from one of those pairs back into the mainline games, given they appear in the Galar or whatever region we're on's Dex. Previously, eggs took steps to hatch, but I feel like this might need to be adapted to a timer for mobile. Maybe they could offer connection with the Pokeball Plus (sold separately!) to act as a pedometer for those who'd prefer step hatching as an alternative to waiting though. This would be the ideal feasible solution, but hacking has become so out of control in the Pokemon community that hardly anyone legit breeds stuff anymore, so GameFreak might just think it isn't worth bothering with, and sadly I can't even really blame them if they come to that decision given the situation.

    If they wanted to get really nuts they could add an Amie / Refresh / Camping (according to rumors) type feature to Home too, however this immediately runs into the same animation problems preventing all the Pokemon from appearing in every new mainline game. The only workaround I could think of to this is just having it act as a copy database for animations that appeared in previous titles, but there's still some conversation work for mobile to be done there probably, so it is probably more hassle than it is worth and would also probably be seen as a primary feature for why you'd be getting the games themselves.

    Now the point this all comes down to however is a price point. This is a service, potentially greatly expanded from the capabilities of the Bank service before it. Bank was only $5 a year, but it was also simply storage, acting as PC boxes. I can't see them implementing some of this stuff without at least bumping that subscription up to $10 a year, but I feel like anymore than that and people will become upset at having to pay this amount on top of their $60 for every new game as well. Another thing that I feel needs to be outlined when it comes to Pokemon Home is the EXACT length of the grace period when you stop subscribing to the service before they wipe your Pokemon off their server. It has been kept ambiguous throughout all of Bank's lifetime, although most forum posts you'll read about lapsed users later resubscribing will suggest they maintained years long lengths of lapsed subscription Pokemon for users. That's great, but I feel like we need a hard deadline to put the cases of users who did have their Pokemon deleted from lapsed subscriptions entirely at blame for that. You could make many arguments for what period of time would be fair. I'd personally say two years from lapsed subscription date. That gives people about two to three games to remind them to resubscribe before losing them all, which seems fair to me and allows skipping a game or two that doesn't seem interesting to you while maintaining your collection.

    We just need to wait for when they're ready to market Home and announce its full feature set. Isn't really worth getting upset about the National Dex situation until we know the true extent of what this entails for the future.

  • @mbun haven't read everything you said because it is a lot and seems to go about unrelated things about Home, but just the very first part, I could concive something like that being the case if they showed something, anything that were even a little bit impressive in regards to the animations or the how game looks, but it looks as basic as it always has so I honestly can not see the effort.

    And part of my point is, this game is gonna break the bank, like Pokemon games always do but probably much more, it should not be difficult to get more hands on board be it within GameFreak or with external help to ramp up the quality of really everything and not have to leave one of the most important things of these games aside, it is an excuse I could buy for other franchises, not for Pokemon.

    Sadly we likely have a good idea why this is, Gamefreak is a developer that is not interested in moving forward with their games, and really why should they when their minimal effort continues pulling in millions without failure, so again this comes to what I said about disinterest and mediocrity, if they didn't want this to be an issue it wouldnt be, and it wouldn't prevent them from making mad profit on this either.

  • @bard91 Where does it end though?

    Let's say for the sake of argument that they could, by hiring more people / delaying the game (which for business reasons is inconceivable), cram in all existing 1,000-ish Pokemon.

    Next-gen, there will be 1,200 Pokemon, and the graphical expectations will be higher. The gen after that, there will be 1,400 Pokemon, which again will each need even more work. And so on.

    It is simply an unsustainable model, no matter how much money/effort/good will you throw at it. They said it was already difficult for Sun/Moon, so they had to rip the band-aid this time.

    As a developer myself, if there's something I hate, it's reading accusations of "laziness" whenever some feature goes missing from a game. I can guarantee you that not a single thing has ever been cut from a game because the devs thought "Eh, can't be bothered". On the contrary, you can bet that every game that came out had extra stuff and ideas the devs desperately wanted to add and had to abandon for lack of time.

    Hiring extra hands is not an easy, magical process. Any new staff need to be identified, interviewed, tested, selected, hired, then onboarded and trained before they can even be put to work. And once you're done needing this huge new hit squad you just hired to model 500 Pokemon, what do you make them work on? You've employed them now, can't pay them to sit on their hands. Do you fire them? Or were they just contractors or an external "3D modeling/animation" outsourcing company that just happened to be available and have the required staff/skills to work on your game, and you'll just do business with that next company for your next game? Will they still be enough next time?

    Things are not that simple, things cost money, things take time, things can go wrong, things must be prioritized, things must be sacrificed.

    I have my own issues with Pokemon and I can understand saying there's nothing mind-blowing in Sword/Shield that compensates for the missing Pokemon.

    But on this specific issue, I feel it's unreasonable to blame Game Freak, it's simply an impossible task no matter how you cut it.

  • @bard91 said:

    seems to go about unrelated things about Home

    Home is basically a new branch to the games. It is more a paid subscription app for your game than a separate thing.

    it looks as basic as it always has so I honestly can not see the effort

    Not true. Just from what we've seen so far the trainer characters actually have facial expressions and emote now, to the point where people are speculating whether or not this game has spoken dialogue because of the mouth flap movements. In previous games people constantly made fun of the characters' static faces with a stupid psycho smile through every situation.

    And part of my point is, this game is gonna break the bank, like Pokemon games always do

    They actually make peanuts compared to mobile money. Pokemon GO earned a ridiculous amount more than GameFreak's games ever pulled in. I get that the gist of your point is they make enough, so I'll move on.

    it should not be difficult to get more hands on board be it within GameFreak or with external help to ramp up the quality of really everything

    More hands doesn't necessarily mean a better product. They have hired more people as time has gone on, and that's why they have two teams who trade off on projects, so they can each get an extra year of development time for their own. There's also smaller teams who work on stuff outside of Pokemon. Lots of features currently get lost between games because of the multiple team thing, so if they added another team so everyone gets another year, then even more would get lost from game to game. Again, it is a time issue, not a money one.

    Sadly we likely have a good idea why this is, Gamefreak is a developer that is not interested in moving forward with their game etc.

    Sorry, but this is uninformed, ignorant, bullshit speculation you're making here. They're always moving forward. They put lots of effort into their games. They're always time crunching and held back by the shackles of being part of a huge multimedia franchise however. There's way more obstacles to continuing to consistently release these games every year or two most with upwards of 800 creatures you have to balance and make animations for than you're giving them credit for. Until recently they were pushing extremely outdated hardware to the literal breaking point, and now they're forced into the new battle of having to learn to make games with much higher definition assets on way more powerful hardware while they also adjust to this new hardware. They don't get time to gradually adjust to this. That's why Let's Go was so shitty and derpy. They have to learn by doing and do it fast, because they cannot afford delays. You said you'd buy excuses for other franchises and not Pokemon, but that's very backwards. Pokemon as a multimedia franchise has been consistently trucking along with a massive presence longer than just about any other game franchise. There's so many times they could've failed and disappeared, but they've maintained a constant presence. You should cut them more slack and understand their work conditions more.

    if they didn't want this to be an issue it wouldnt be

    There's absolutely no benefit to them for having an issue they could easily solve. Sorry, that simply doesn't make sense.

  • @axel you are right in saying it is not as easy as I'm necessarily saying it is and you as a developer obviously a much more informed perspective, as to it not being possible, again for some other franchises I could agree with it but in this case it is hard for me to agree to that point, and to me a big part of this is the mediocrity with which Gamefreak has operated for years now is what is ultimately leading to this.