Pokemon Sword/Shield (Switch)



  • @el-shmiablo said:

    Over 600 is a strange way of saying around 400.

    I also don't have the hard numbers in front of me, because I'm on leak blackout. Unless you pirated the game ahead of time through an illegal rom, you don't know either and are just believing what you're told online right now, whether that's accurate or not. I was estimating based on the number confirmed prerelease plus the typical amount of new Pokemon added. 400 still isn't bad. The largest Regional Dex before these games are Ultra Sun and Moon at 403 Pokemon. Previous to that, 300 was alot for a Regional Dex with BW2 and the original Sun and Moon. Previous to that. they'd be in the 150-250 range.

    If you think this level of effort (or lack thereof) is alright then that is fine, but let's not pretend this isn't a laughably bad cash-in.

    I've already said I don't anticipate I'll be happy with these games though. I just don't think a team of 200 members set out to make "a laughably bad cash-in" when they knew all eyes would be on them with these games seen as the first big console mainline Pokemon games and they themselves spotlighted it years back even. You definitely aren't considering the pressure they must have had put on them, not only from the fans side but from all the partners involved with Pokemon not to bungle these games, despite that seeming to have happened in the end.

    There are plenty of other games with 3 year development cycles with much, much, much less resources available to them that don't end up looking like college fan projects.

    It definitely does not look like a college fan project. You can stop exaggerating. Even other games with 3 year development cycles don't have a ton of outside parties they have to work with and constantly get things approved from before they can continue development and time out the release of their game with and such. I also doubt there's many that are working with 400+ creatures either, especially when nobody seems keen to try and overtake Pokemon at the monster genre. Want to complain about every Pokemon ever not being in the games? Nobody ever attacks Digimon for the same thing, despite them never having done this and always doing what Pokemon does now where they're picking selections from the overall mass of them. So just because Pokemon's devs has clawed their faces off this long keeping that a thing for this franchise, now they're expected to do it until the end of time, no matter how high that number gets, or they're suddenly lazy now? That's fucking horseshit and you know it.

    Also, for somebody who "ain't excusing shit" you sure have done nothing but excuse the game's shortcomings.

    You clearly haven't read the topic then, like not remotely, like not even the last five posts I've made. Because there's things I've outright said they need to work on, things I'm very personally not happy about with these games that I've learned from reviews, and more you're sweeping under the rug to fit your narrative of I'm just forgiving every flaw, when all I'm doing is explaining what should be more understandable that people are blowing out of proportion from the real problems that are getting lost to babies complaining about a tree texture in an open world segment of the game that's clearly more taxing on the hardware than the rest of it from a team clearly inexperienced with making open world sections trying for the first time ever on hardware they're already struggling to get the most out of.



  • Personally I just find it odd that they went thru the effort to make new HD models during the time of S&M, but won't use the majority of them for thier first major HD title, and it's not like you can use that $5 Pokemon bank thing to transfer Pokemon to Sword & Shield.

    And if I remember thier reason for not including every Pokemon Is because they were working on new animations for all the pokemon featured, which so far seems to be a lie. Honestly I could forgive everything looking and moving like Pokemon Stadium if they actually included every single Pokemon.



  • Just looking at the gameplay of Sword & Shield, I think they are making a 2019 3D console game with the mindset of what they are used to. I hope for their next kick at the can, they go back to the drawing board. For example, they can abandon the low angle battle camera with your Pokémon in the left foreground and your rival Pokémon in the right background. It’s like they are latching onto the wrong things from the past.

    I wonder if a problem is that they have a working production pipeline to make a Pokémon game. Like a foolproof setup. This stage first, this stage second, this stage third, and so on. Going back and rethinking the needs of a “true” console Pokémon would require a top down studio restructure where the old production pipeline goes out the window.

    Just speculation, but I think there is so much familiar Pokémon DNA here that I doubt they changed things up too too much when developing this game.

    Like, this may sound crazy, but let’s make a realistic scale of the world relative to characters and Pokémon. You are small time when you walk around the woods but when you catch a Squirtle and upgrade him to Blastoise and swim around the world, you feel like you’re riding a speed boat in a big ocean. You’re big time now because of your dedication to your Pokémon and you’re rewarded with the feeling of power.

    Up that “scale” and make Pokémon feel like a GOTY contender next to some other JRPG or open world game.

    It’s a dream but it would be awesome.



  • @dmcmaster said in Pokemon Sword/Shield (Switch):

    Personally I just find it odd that they went thru the effort to make new HD models during the time of S&M, but won't use the majority of them for thier first major HD title

    This is exactly why this theory doesn't hold water, and there's clearly more to it than people think. If they did indeed have every Pokemon perfectly modelled and ready to go with little to no effort, then why wouldn't they include them all? Why would they purposely piss everyone off?

    There's been tons of assumptions and misconceptions about the development of this game, right now /r/Pokemon will lap up any random conspiracy theory or made up insider leak that confirms their bias, they're out for blood.

    Clearly the game is not up to the standards of other Nintendo titles on Switch (or of other titles, period), on all fronts: presentation, performance, content, scale, design, etc. Whether it's down to limitations in budget, time, skill, direction, unexpected complications, external factors, or all of the above, nobody really knows.

    @El-Shmiablo You're conflating "excusing" and "explaining". What @Mbun is trying to do is just give rational reasons as to why the game is in the state it's in. I also don't believe for a second that Game Freak simply thought "Fuck it, 400 is enough, these losers will buy it anyway!"

    Using the whole "biggest media franchise of all time" argument is meaningless and disingenuous, because it doesn't translate in any way to the budget allocated to the actual game's development, which is the only thing that matters and contributes to its eventual quality. The games sell very well but nowhere near GTA levels. So it wouldn't make sense for them to have GTA's budget either.

    Should this transition to HD have been handled better? Yes.
    Does the series lack ambition? To me, yes, to others, it's fine as it is.
    Should Game Freak get bigger and/or better? Yes.
    Are Game Freak just a bunch of "lazy devs"? No.

    At the end of the day, all we can do is look at the end product being sold to us, and decide whether it appeals to us or not. Some people are disappointed, let's hope the sales/reviews reflect it enough to shake things up. Some people are happy with a new Pokemon game with a formula that will never stop being fundametally fun, let them enjoy themselves.



  • @dmcmaster said:

    Personally I just find it odd that they went thru the effort to make new HD models during the time of S&M, but won't use the majority of them for thier first major HD title

    They were actually made during XY times, actually a little before XY even for the Pokedex 3D App, but most have been slightly updated from game to game since then. The reason some might not work anymore despite being "future proofed" back then is hilariously enough Dynamax blowing the models up even larger than normal. They kind of shot themselves in the foot with that choice of gimmick.

    it's not like you can use that $5 Pokemon bank thing to transfer Pokemon to Sword & Shield

    They always stagger trading Pokemon to the new games by a couple of months, to limit the amount of illegally generated Pokemon in the new games during the first couple months. Whenever Pokemon Home launches, I'll be surprised if there isn't a free trial for a month like Bank had when it came out.

    And if I remember thier reason for not including every Pokemon Is because they were working on new animations for all the pokemon featured, which so far seems to be a lie.

    Actually, Pokemon Camp, the new Amie-like has lots of new animations for the Pokemon.

    looking and moving like Pokemon Stadium

    Stadium looks better at times, because each Stadium game was developed around a smaller number of Pokemon and Moves funnily enough. Again, we need those spinoffs rescued back from the mobile hell.

    @DIPSET said:

    For example, they can abandon the low angle battle camera with your Pokémon in the left foreground and your rival Pokémon in the right background.

    It'd be cool if we could control the camera in battle ourselves or set it to auto like it is now. It'd also be cool if for replays we could play the footage back from different angles like stuff like Mario Kart 8 allows.

    Just speculation, but I think there is so much familiar Pokémon DNA here that I doubt they changed things up too too much when developing this game.

    We've seen a couple major shakeups over time like sprites to 3D Models eventually and breaking out of the grid, but they still want to keep the mainline Pokemon gameplay mostly the same and do other stuff through spinoffs. I think the open world section, the Wild Area, is getting enough positive buzz, that they'll try to find ways to build on that an incorporate similar sections into future games though. Just might not be in the next with the way Pokemon is developed two games at a time.

    Up that “scale” and make Pokémon feel like a GOTY contender next to some other JRPG or open world game.

    I just don't see a risky venture like that happening in the course of a three year development cycle. I'd love to see them experiment more with tackling gyms in different order and such, but you see those concept artists out there posting pictures of Shadow of the Colossus with Pokemon, and it looks cool but it'd make a pretty stupid game if you could catch something that could actually crush citys. I know that sounds silly with Dynamax being a thing this time, but the lore with that is that they're weird projections or some nonsense, and the game only lets you use that in big open areas. Then you have your people who want Breath of the Wild with Pokemon, and I just don't see how a game like that could possibly work. People already complain about Breath of the Wild being too NPC empty. Now imagine that in a Pokemon game. That could be awful. I think the dream of dreams is a game with a bunch of handcrafted environments like Pokemon Snap that makes the world feel super alive with Pokemon, but again I can't see us ever getting that game outside of a spinoff due to just how long that'd take to make.

    @Axel said:

    Clearly the game is not up to the standards of other Nintendo titles on Switch (or of other titles, period), on all fronts

    Real talk. It is on the same level as or even better than Three Houses, except everyone forgives that game because they like the characters.

    Should this transition to HD have been handled better? Yes.

    I'm just not sure who you blame for this. Do you just yell at GameFreak for their project not coming together well? Yell at the programmers for not figuring the Switch hardware out fast enough? Yell at Nintendo for not offering enough support for them? Yell at TPC for pressuring them not to delay the game and hurt the franchise? Yell at them for hyping up these games or yell at the fans for getting expectations out of check? It isn't often GameFreak outright drops the ball, so maybe I am a little willing to cut them some slack this time. It didn't feel like they weren't trying. It just felt like a project that didn't come out right in many ways. That said, there's things I count as design flaws I will still hold them accountable for, stuff GameFreak intentionally did that was really stupid, and I'm upset at them for it like the forced on EXP Share.

    Does the series lack ambition? To me, yes, to others, it's fine as it is.

    For me, that's a title by title answer. I saw crazy ambition in some games like HG/SS, BW2, and as controversial as this probably will be to say, XY, but then you have stuff like Ultra Sun and Moon that felt like just stalling a year on something people will buy anyways that's pretty much the same game twice with a couple new bonus areas and a new throwaway minigame or two to list as a selling point on the box.

    Should Game Freak get bigger and/or better? Yes.

    They've doubled their core team size since Sun and Moon, so they indeed are. It is only feasible for them to grow so fast, and I think twice the size they were last Generation is a pretty fast growth speed, so I don't see reason to get angry at them on this front.

    Are Game Freak just a bunch of "lazy devs"? No.

    You could speculate argue with zero proof that maybe a Director or Producer or such might have been lazy and hurt the overall project as result, but I don't believe two hundred people at GameFreak working on Pokemon's first mainline, core console game were intentionally phoning it in. Also, for as much as we are talking lately about these games as outright failures with no redeeming value, that's not accurate. Even the reviews that scored the game low agree at least that the new Pokemon and the Galar Region itself are charming, as well as much of the streamlining being good direction for the series, so someone in that team of two hundred was doing good work. Other areas of the game just didn't come together as properly this time for whatever reason.

    At the end of the day, all we can do is look at the end product being sold to us, and decide whether it appeals to us or not.

    Like even when I end up hating it, and yes that's where I'm at now, when not if. When I end up hating it, I'm still not going to look for extra throwaway reasons to hate it harder. I'm not going to pretend things that don't remotely bother me are suddenly dealbreakers just because things that actually are dealbreakers made me dislike the game, so I might as well go all in and form some strong case against the games using stuff I don't even really care about! No, that's just childish and silly. I'd rather focus on the high impact issues that were greatly detrimental to my enjoyment of the game in the hopes that GameFreak hears and fixes those things in the future, versus having the next Pokemon games have the prettiest tree textures we've ever seen but still forced always on EXP Share that's actively hurting the game, instead of a tree nobody was ever meant to take a magnifying glass to getting spruced up. The thing about criticism is unless you can keep it constructive and practical, there's nothing a dev can really do with it, so when you just toss lofty expectations at them you're just basically bullying and stressing them out, which is a state that'll just lead to worse games received in the end. Put more thought into why things are as they are, what actually could be changed to elevate the product, and how those things could be improved within the current situation. Or just don't play the games until they do something that appeals to you again.



  • Youtube Video

    Quite insightful discussion.



  • Apparently some people are reporting a bug where the game can crash and wipe not just your save but everything on your SD card.

    Granted, I'm mostly going on hearsay and every instance of this I've actually read on twitter is from Japan and ran through machine translations so I don't know how accurate it is, or if this even affects English copies of the game at all, but still. Consider it a PSA to turn off autosave since as far as I can gather that's what causes it.

    Edit: here's an instance of it happening to someone playing an English copy, so that's not safe either.



  • Just as a heads up since it is technically missable, the NPC that unlocks the extra sound option volume sliders is in the city after your first trip through the Wild Area. Walk back down the path next to the Pokemon Center like the game wants you to for the objective, then past the Onix and the bridge talk to the guy on the right side with a record shop. Not as obscure as people were making it out to be, but the game doesn't force the encounter, and the NPC himself doesn't look particularly important either.



  • Don't look at the bottom line of icons in Y-Comm Profile section unless you want to be spoiled on the types for the Gyms in the game. Really stupid that they did that. All they had to do was include an icon for each type so you wouldn't be able to tell.


  • Global Moderator

    @hanabi The issue is apparently with certain formats of SD cards.



  • I am by no means a big Pokemon fan, but I feel like people are placing emphasis on the wrong things. I think this game does a lot of the core stuff pretty well, and many fans are completely ignoring that in favor of poor visuals and animations. Idk, to me those are the least important parts of a Pokemon game. It bums me out that many people can't look past them.



  • @capnbobamous said:

    poor visuals and animations

    Lots of those complaints are cherrypicking as well, because the game looks pretty decent most of the time. It is no Fire Emblem Three Houses situation, except the Wild Area, which you could directly compare to that.



  • @kristen-rogers serves them right for using homebrew on their system in the first place.



  • @capnbobamous

    I hear you. In the end, Pokémon is getting great reviews so it’s a fun game. But it just feels like such a wasted opportunity. A console Pokémon could be so much more.



  • @dipset I totally get that! Even I'm feeling some gentle exasperation with some things, but the fans who treat this game like it's garbage because of relatively trivial things are ridiculous.



  • Waiting for your review, @Mbun ;)



  • @axel Heading towards my 6th Gym. Still going to be awhile. Taking my time.



  • @capnbobamous My first session of the game had Scorbunny learn Double Kick! Awesome! I bet that will look really cool considering how good Quick Attack looks, and because Scorbunny is a rabbit!

    Scorbunny does this weird shaky thing, as if battle animations are turned off

    Oh...

    The game is great so far, but the level of polish is dogshit in places. How does Scorbunny, a fucking STARTER POKEMON, not have an animation for a learned move. Pure laziness.



  • @hazz3r I have the perfect clip of my own gameplay to show you, but yeah basically it is like that because for "special moves" it is usually a beam or ball of energy they're firing and looks natural not coming immediately out of them, but for "physical moves" they can't as easily tie an animation to every Pokemon at once that looks natural since the move should be coming closer from a part of the Pokemon. So the way they're currently handling this problem is to have moves that use a "physical attack animation", instead of having their own custom animations for the move itself, they default to a "physical attack animation" based around the Pokemon itself that can be reused between completely different "physical attack moves". The result of this is that the Pokemon themselves get more personal character between all these moves when they use them, but the drawback becomes that some moves look really good and make alot of sense when you see them using them while others are ridiculously out of place.

    We were talking about this in Twitch chat the other day, and basically the only way they could somewhat fix this is to have more of those "physical attack animations" per Pokemon. You would need one for their leg region, one for their arm region, and one for their head region at the very least. Some stuff would still look weird, but it wouldn't look as weird. The problem is that this has to be done for every single Pokemon, tripling the animation work in this department. Say there's around 400 Pokemon in Sword and Shield. Instead of 400 "physical attack animations" they need to now design 1,200 "physical attack animations". It is one of those things that just gets lost to the limits of deadlines when developing the games. I'm not saying you shouldn't complain about it, just that there's honestly no great way to fix the problem within the allowed development cycle. They could can the animations for "physical attack moves" on a per move basis instead of trying to attempt to make the Pokemon look like they're physically contacting one another, but I feel like that'd be a step back from where they are now.

    Just be glad that at the end of the day, it honestly isn't a huge issue. Pretty rarely does stuff look super off like this, and for the most part they find animations that can work between pretty different kinds of "physical moves". I started this by saying this is only a problem for "physical moves", but there's also people out there upset that when Blastoise uses water "special moves" that the animations don't originate from Blastoise's water cannons. It is simply one of those things that you have to move past when you're dealing with hundreds of creatures, but it would be nice if we still had spinoffs where a much fewer selection of individuals could have this kind of time and attention payed to the way every single move they use animates specifically to them. Too bad spinoffs are stuck in mobile hell territory right now.

    We've seen games like this in the past from console spinoffs like Snap and Stadium, to Japan only Arcade Pokemon game releases, to Chinese knockoff mobile games and fan projects. Again, it is only possible in these games, because instead of 400ish Pokemon they're dealing with much less, and you can see the quality of the animations raise as that scales down. Stadium animations look better than the ones from the core series, stuff like Pokemon Tretta animations look even better than Stadium ones, and at the end of it Pokken animations gets to be the most specialized of them all because they're dealing with the fewest number of Pokemon overall.

    So I know it comes off as "pure laziness" when one of these animation and Pokemon combos stands out like a sore thumb, but it is honestly just a sad truth of having to plan around development challenges, and you have to actively make yourself aware of all the times it isn't standing out, that these things are honestly in the minority. I believe this is forgivable, especially when it is happening on an early game move like Double Kick that your Socrbunny is most definitely going to replace before it reaches the final moveset for it. Those final, top of the line moves that you'll be seeing much more of are the ones that really need the utmost care taken with them looking nice and proper.



  • About halfway to Motostoke right now and really enjoying my time with this game. Surprising amount of love for the later gens, especially gen 5. In general, I think the new designs are really good - some of the best and most varied since gen 3, IMO. That said, my Sobble just reached its final evolution... idk if I can keep this thing in my party. Trying to figure out where their head was out in the progression of this evo-line. My god. I never look at starter evos before I play because I like the surprise, but holy christ, why.