Pokemon Sword/Shield (Switch)



  • @dipset I totally get that! Even I'm feeling some gentle exasperation with some things, but the fans who treat this game like it's garbage because of relatively trivial things are ridiculous.



  • Waiting for your review, @Mbun ;)



  • @axel Heading towards my 6th Gym. Still going to be awhile. Taking my time.



  • @capnbobamous My first session of the game had Scorbunny learn Double Kick! Awesome! I bet that will look really cool considering how good Quick Attack looks, and because Scorbunny is a rabbit!

    Scorbunny does this weird shaky thing, as if battle animations are turned off

    Oh...

    The game is great so far, but the level of polish is dogshit in places. How does Scorbunny, a fucking STARTER POKEMON, not have an animation for a learned move. Pure laziness.



  • @hazz3r I have the perfect clip of my own gameplay to show you, but yeah basically it is like that because for "special moves" it is usually a beam or ball of energy they're firing and looks natural not coming immediately out of them, but for "physical moves" they can't as easily tie an animation to every Pokemon at once that looks natural since the move should be coming closer from a part of the Pokemon. So the way they're currently handling this problem is to have moves that use a "physical attack animation", instead of having their own custom animations for the move itself, they default to a "physical attack animation" based around the Pokemon itself that can be reused between completely different "physical attack moves". The result of this is that the Pokemon themselves get more personal character between all these moves when they use them, but the drawback becomes that some moves look really good and make alot of sense when you see them using them while others are ridiculously out of place.

    We were talking about this in Twitch chat the other day, and basically the only way they could somewhat fix this is to have more of those "physical attack animations" per Pokemon. You would need one for their leg region, one for their arm region, and one for their head region at the very least. Some stuff would still look weird, but it wouldn't look as weird. The problem is that this has to be done for every single Pokemon, tripling the animation work in this department. Say there's around 400 Pokemon in Sword and Shield. Instead of 400 "physical attack animations" they need to now design 1,200 "physical attack animations". It is one of those things that just gets lost to the limits of deadlines when developing the games. I'm not saying you shouldn't complain about it, just that there's honestly no great way to fix the problem within the allowed development cycle. They could can the animations for "physical attack moves" on a per move basis instead of trying to attempt to make the Pokemon look like they're physically contacting one another, but I feel like that'd be a step back from where they are now.

    Just be glad that at the end of the day, it honestly isn't a huge issue. Pretty rarely does stuff look super off like this, and for the most part they find animations that can work between pretty different kinds of "physical moves". I started this by saying this is only a problem for "physical moves", but there's also people out there upset that when Blastoise uses water "special moves" that the animations don't originate from Blastoise's water cannons. It is simply one of those things that you have to move past when you're dealing with hundreds of creatures, but it would be nice if we still had spinoffs where a much fewer selection of individuals could have this kind of time and attention payed to the way every single move they use animates specifically to them. Too bad spinoffs are stuck in mobile hell territory right now.

    We've seen games like this in the past from console spinoffs like Snap and Stadium, to Japan only Arcade Pokemon game releases, to Chinese knockoff mobile games and fan projects. Again, it is only possible in these games, because instead of 400ish Pokemon they're dealing with much less, and you can see the quality of the animations raise as that scales down. Stadium animations look better than the ones from the core series, stuff like Pokemon Tretta animations look even better than Stadium ones, and at the end of it Pokken animations gets to be the most specialized of them all because they're dealing with the fewest number of Pokemon overall.

    So I know it comes off as "pure laziness" when one of these animation and Pokemon combos stands out like a sore thumb, but it is honestly just a sad truth of having to plan around development challenges, and you have to actively make yourself aware of all the times it isn't standing out, that these things are honestly in the minority. I believe this is forgivable, especially when it is happening on an early game move like Double Kick that your Socrbunny is most definitely going to replace before it reaches the final moveset for it. Those final, top of the line moves that you'll be seeing much more of are the ones that really need the utmost care taken with them looking nice and proper.



  • About halfway to Motostoke right now and really enjoying my time with this game. Surprising amount of love for the later gens, especially gen 5. In general, I think the new designs are really good - some of the best and most varied since gen 3, IMO. That said, my Sobble just reached its final evolution... idk if I can keep this thing in my party. Trying to figure out where their head was out in the progression of this evo-line. My god. I never look at starter evos before I play because I like the surprise, but holy christ, why.



  • @axel LOL the excuse of "it doesn't sell like GTA so it shouldn't have GTAs budget" is some ol' bullshit and you know it.
    Each mainline entry in the Pokemon franchise has sold at least 15-20 million, so why does this game that sells more in one entry than some games do across their entire franchise, look like it belongs on the Gamecube?

    A "reason" becomes an "excuse" when the reason is not good enough.



  • @el-shmiablo said:

    why does this game that sells more in one entry than some games do across their entire franchise, look like it belongs on the Gamecube?

    Because it doesn't. Because you've just been looking at cherrypicked screencaps, probably most of the Wild Area, which looks worse for performance reasons. The game doesn't look as bad as people like you are pretending through the majority of the game across the routes and towns / cities.



  • @mbun Whatever helps you sleep my dude.

    But you're right. I'm being harsh.
    0_1574095455718_Pokemon_Sword_and_Shield_July_18_Banner_Image-1024x462.jpg
    It looks more like a lower end Vita game.



  • @hazz3r Yeah that was frustrating for sure. While I don't necessarily agree that it is the product of laziness, I am with you that the animation (or lack thereof) for Double Kick is terrible. Again, I think it's totally fine to have these complaints, it just bothers me when people base their whole argument as to why the game sucks around them.



  • @el-shmiablo Doesn't surprise me you posted a screenshot of the Wild Area. Just proves my point.





  • @naltmank I felt the same way when I got the final evolution of Sobble. My jaw dropped after It evolved. It wasn't what I expected. That being said, I'm a fan of the new gen Pokemon designs overall.



  • @mbun I mean, all the footage and screens I've seen of the game look just as bad. Literally picked this at random.
    But yeah. I totally proved your point.
    ;)



  • @el-shmiablo You should listen to this week's podcast.



  • 0_1574131164798_1574119285815m.jpg

    I take back all my complaints about the game.



  • @el-shmiablo said in Pokemon Sword/Shield (Switch):

    @axel LOL the excuse of "it doesn't sell like GTA so it shouldn't have GTAs budget" is some ol' bullshit and you know it.
    Each mainline entry in the Pokemon franchise has sold at least 15-20 million, so why does this game that sells more in one entry than some games do across their entire franchise, look like it belongs on the Gamecube?

    A "reason" becomes an "excuse" when the reason is not good enough.

    Source
    Diamond/Pearl: 17.67 million
    Black/White: 15.64 million
    HeartGold/SoulSilver: 12.72 million
    X/Y: 16.42 million
    Sun/Moon: 16.17 million
    Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire: 14.23 million
    Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon: 8.57 million

    Not exactly "at least 15-20 million", but I nitpick.

    Meanwhile, GTA V sold 11.21 million in its first 24 hours, and is at over 115 million lifetime. More than all the games above combined.

    So tell me again why it's bullshit. You're the one who said that as the biggest media franchise in the world it should have more resources/budget, and I explained why the overall lifetime revenue of the entire franchise (games, movies, trading cards, merch, etc.) has nothing to do with the budget specifically allocated to the games themselves.

    Let's say Sword/Shield end up selling about 18 million (which is far from a given), it would be a record for a mainline game since at least the DS days, and the second best-selling game on Switch behind only Mario Kart. How much more could they sell with double, triple the budget, considering the current Switch install base? Not enough to justify doubling or tripling the budget. What they'd need to justify a bigger budget would be to go the Monster Hunter World route and become multi-platform, then they could aim much higher.

    Does that mean I'm happy with the current state of the series? Far from it. Are the graphics my main issue? Far from it. They're definitely not mind-blowing but I'd be more than happy with them if there weren't much bigger issues aside from that.

    My personal gripe is that even with its current resources and budget, the series should be better than it is now. Compared to most other Nintendo franchises that either perfected or revolutionized their formula on Switch, Pokemon is merely trudging along, even regressing in some areas.

    So the last hope is that this being their first HD entry (Let's Go was developed in parallel) they struggled and had to cut corners to make their deadline, and the next games will allow them to fully realize their vision. Let's see if they right this ship in the next few years or not.



  • I would say less nitpicking, and more cherrypicking. Here, let me correct that for you.

    Pokémon Red/Green/Blue/Yellow: 59.52 million
    Pokémon Gold/Silver/Crystal: 42.21 million
    Pokémon Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald: 36.77 million
    Pokémon Diamond/Pearl/Platinum: 25.27 million
    Pokémon Black/White: 24.16 million
    Pokémon X/Y: 16.42 million
    Pokémon Sun/Moon: 24.74 million
    Pokémon: Let's Go: 11.28 million
    Total: 240.37 million

    Even discounting all other merchandise, the games have sold more than the Elder Scrolls, The Witcher, God of War, and Halo franchises combined.
    So yeah. Bullshit.



  • I wasn't cherrypicking, I only included the ones available on Nintendo's website, which include the last 13 years, sorry if that's not relevant enough for you. Also, you combined things like Black/White and Black/White 2 even though they're entirely different games.

    Do you not understand that adding up the lifetime revenue of an entire series is irrelevant to the budget of an individual game in that series? Should the budget of the next Marvel movie be $1 billion because "Hey they made so much money with those previous movies so surely they can afford to splurge!"

    You budget something relative to the money it can bring in, not relative to the money every other product you made in the past combined adds up to.

    Obviously Pokemon has more combined sales than these other series because it has existed for way longer and has released way more titles than these other series. Things add up, go figure!

    I don't understand why you have to be so confrontational when we essentially both agree that the games are not as good as they should be...



  • @axel I mean, the budget of Endgame was certainly higher than the budget of Ironman.
    My point about the sales is that the games are clearly making bank, but all that money never seems to make its way back to giving the consumer a better product and we are just continually given this low effort schlock over and over.

    Like you said, we're both disappointed in these games, and I just want to see them try to compete with their contemporaries, not with games from 1 or 3 generations ago.

    Pokémon is a flagship videogame series, and yet this is what we get? I'm sorry, but at least for me, that is unacceptable and insulting to be asked to pay full price for a game that has pop-in in empty areas less than 10 feet away from the character.