binarymelon last edited by binarymelon
@el-shmiablo turns out I was wrong. It was only 5mbps back in 1999. The speed didn't increase for a few years after that. The Wayback machine for the site says the cost was $40 a month, but I thought it was more than that. My parents were paying for it at the time though.
Capnbobamous last edited by
Man all this talk makes me really happy I live in LA. I didn't know it was so bad everywhere else.
Sazime last edited by
@capnbobamous I live just outside of SF. We're spoiled. Going back home to MT is a good, healthy shock to the system to see what "high speed" internet can really be like.
INTO THE TRASH IT GOES.
So I have only been mildly keeping up with Stadia. I saw the video where one outlet tapped the space bar then a second later, the in game character jumps. I figure lag will get fixed with time but clearly Stadia isn’t worthwhile to anybody in its current state.
So you mean to tell me, Digital Foundry and other are seeing that Stadia isn’t anywhere close to the resolution of XBO-X or PS4 Pro, and Googles response is: “yes it’s 4K as advertised” when in all actuality, they advertised this a as “better than consoles”.
On top of it, they’re now denying people have overheating issues. Like whaaaaaaa? They clearly are new to this and it shows. Can’t be in combat with your customers the whole time.
It’s kinda funny but my studio did some freelance animation for a new Apple streaming show last year and they too were very clearly new to this compared to networks. Companies nowadays just kinda walk on in and expect everything to be their way and it doesn’t work like that.
naltmank last edited by
So I was able to play on my friend's press copy shortly before it was released into the wild. Theoretically, that meant the servers should've been at peak performance. Visually I was actually pretty blown away by how good things worked, but the input lag made things unplayable. I mean that literally. Camera controls with input lag confused my head so much that I got terrible motion sickness and couldn't keep playing. It also made lining up shots extremely difficult, since it's hard to fine-tune your aiming when your cursor isn't responding immediately to your touch. I think as a proof of concept it's pretty remarkable, but definitely not ready for practical use yet.
Just out of interest, as I keep reading different takes on the stadia and input lag. What does people play on? I mean in terms of connection speed and wired VS WiFi? From what I've gathered it seem to be alright on wired devices, but as soon as things jump to WiFi the input lag starts to show.
@lotias Digital Foundry tested it on various connections and it seems that input lag is worse on the controller/chromecast, but slightly better when streaming straight to a phone or other mobile device.
Personally I am adamantly against streaming when it comes to gaming, regardless of how well it works. The infrastructure just isn't there to support it for the vast majority of the developed world.
Scotty last edited by
Personally I am adamantly against streaming when it comes to gaming, regardless of how well it works.
That's my thought about stream gaming too.
Hanabi last edited by
Game streaming will never be viable and I don't know why people keep falling for it when companies try to force it.
@el-shmiablo Yeah I agree, Some countries will have less issues with a streaming future as the infrastructure is better. But the majority is still struggling even with the basics of a stable internet. I just think that its way way early for it to be big and broad at this point in time.
My co-worker who is really tech savvy, develops VR games, used to be one of those illegal as frig bootleg satellite card burner dudes, etc, is very very excited for the prospect of game streaming. He’s explained the benefits of it in ways that I understand better but I couldn’t relay his point of view from memory.
I think it’s mainly just that he feels as though one day we’ll be there where everything works. Whether it’s sports broadcasts or video games, we should theoretically be really close to having it perfect: good picture, 1:1 speed, extra info (i.e. data metrics in an F1 stream), etc.
He isn’t wrong. Right now I use a free trial of DAZN to watch NFL and occasionally boxing and soccer. The picture quality isn’t as good as HD broadcast but it’s close and when it’s working well, it works and looks great. When it doesn’t work well, you’re frustrated because it costs $150 and looks like crap and your game is jumping around. Sports streaming has been around for at least 4 years now and it’s still not 100% there so video games has an uphill battle for sure.
That said, it should be working in a year or two. I have this feeling that Google won’t be the ones to do it right but somebody will.
Kinda long winded post but I’ll report back if he gives me more details of Stadia and how it’s going for him. I don’t think I’ll know anybody else who cares about it or uses it.
@dipset I feel like streaming video and streaming games are too very, wildly different beasts.
With video, you can have a slight delay in the broadcast and have reduced quality and it isn't going to severely effect your enjoyment in the same way it would a game.
With games, fluctuating latency can be devastating. Many sites and channels have shown how it makes certain games almost impossible to play, as you cannot compensate for the latency when it is constantly fluctuating, which makes it far more difficult to control, which can make a competitive game like a Fighter or an online focused shooter complete garbage.
Until we can transmit data faster than light (impossible) or predict player's movements (much more likely but would require far bigger data and processing overhead than what is currently possible) then streaming will always be trash compared to traditional methods.
Oh I know they are wildly different. I just mean that eventually they should be able to be so great that you can’t deny the product. Some of the issues with TV streaming are more political than technical and we can fix that. For example, Bell Media owns CTV and has right to first broadcast for a ton of sports and they will fight tooth and nail to either make you pay for TV or they get a piece of the pie for streaming. So they now allow DAZN to stream their broadcast of NFL but with ads and all.
The camera feed for the game is either HD or 4K. It then gets transmitted to Bell Media who then retransmits it in 1080i to homes across Canada who are watching on 4K TVs in progressive format. That alone is nasty looking even before we then let DAZN to take that 1080i feed then transmit it through the internet. So we have 4K to 1080i to internet compression.
If we just let the league renegotiate regional rights directly with streaming platforms rather than TV networks, then we’d go 4K to 4K - field to house. Buttery smooth. We’ll get there one day.
I’m less privy to the actually needs to game streaming though. You’re saying the input lag problem is borderline impossible?
El Shmiablo last edited by El Shmiablo
@dipset We would need to process games in a different way than we do now for streaming to be even remotely viable.
Where a console or computer would render a scene in real time, which allows for real time manipulation, for streaming to avoid latency completely the game would need to process the next few frames before they are even displayed on the screen, which would mean the game would need to predict the player's movements, which would mean it would need to render several possible variants of a scene before pushing it out to the player. Will they keep moving forward? Will they jump? Will they attack? Will they stop and suddenly reverse? Are they going to just suddenly stop and spin in circles for a few seconds?
The best solution would be to go half and half, which if I remember correctly is something Xbox has been rumored to be doing going into future generations of hardware. Have the hardware render some elements client side while the server renders other, less important elements server side.
There are solutions, but Stadia isn't it. Purely streaming a game will always have some form of input latency, which, in my opinion, makes it complete and utter trash that I will never use as my primary method of gaming.
naltmank last edited by
@lotias We were playing on Wifi on the chromecast, as we were trying to replicate conditions that the average consumer would use for review. He has fast internet for our city's standards, and it was rough.