Google Stadia

  • Global Moderator

    Just out of interest, as I keep reading different takes on the stadia and input lag. What does people play on? I mean in terms of connection speed and wired VS WiFi? From what I've gathered it seem to be alright on wired devices, but as soon as things jump to WiFi the input lag starts to show.

  • @lotias Digital Foundry tested it on various connections and it seems that input lag is worse on the controller/chromecast, but slightly better when streaming straight to a phone or other mobile device.

    Personally I am adamantly against streaming when it comes to gaming, regardless of how well it works. The infrastructure just isn't there to support it for the vast majority of the developed world.

  • @el-shmiablo said in Google Stadia:

    Personally I am adamantly against streaming when it comes to gaming, regardless of how well it works.

    That's my thought about stream gaming too.

  • Game streaming will never be viable and I don't know why people keep falling for it when companies try to force it.

  • Global Moderator

    @el-shmiablo Yeah I agree, Some countries will have less issues with a streaming future as the infrastructure is better. But the majority is still struggling even with the basics of a stable internet. I just think that its way way early for it to be big and broad at this point in time.

  • My co-worker who is really tech savvy, develops VR games, used to be one of those illegal as frig bootleg satellite card burner dudes, etc, is very very excited for the prospect of game streaming. He’s explained the benefits of it in ways that I understand better but I couldn’t relay his point of view from memory.

    I think it’s mainly just that he feels as though one day we’ll be there where everything works. Whether it’s sports broadcasts or video games, we should theoretically be really close to having it perfect: good picture, 1:1 speed, extra info (i.e. data metrics in an F1 stream), etc.

    He isn’t wrong. Right now I use a free trial of DAZN to watch NFL and occasionally boxing and soccer. The picture quality isn’t as good as HD broadcast but it’s close and when it’s working well, it works and looks great. When it doesn’t work well, you’re frustrated because it costs $150 and looks like crap and your game is jumping around. Sports streaming has been around for at least 4 years now and it’s still not 100% there so video games has an uphill battle for sure.

    That said, it should be working in a year or two. I have this feeling that Google won’t be the ones to do it right but somebody will.

    Kinda long winded post but I’ll report back if he gives me more details of Stadia and how it’s going for him. I don’t think I’ll know anybody else who cares about it or uses it.

  • @dipset I feel like streaming video and streaming games are too very, wildly different beasts.
    With video, you can have a slight delay in the broadcast and have reduced quality and it isn't going to severely effect your enjoyment in the same way it would a game.
    With games, fluctuating latency can be devastating. Many sites and channels have shown how it makes certain games almost impossible to play, as you cannot compensate for the latency when it is constantly fluctuating, which makes it far more difficult to control, which can make a competitive game like a Fighter or an online focused shooter complete garbage.

    Until we can transmit data faster than light (impossible) or predict player's movements (much more likely but would require far bigger data and processing overhead than what is currently possible) then streaming will always be trash compared to traditional methods.

  • @el-shmiablo

    Oh I know they are wildly different. I just mean that eventually they should be able to be so great that you can’t deny the product. Some of the issues with TV streaming are more political than technical and we can fix that. For example, Bell Media owns CTV and has right to first broadcast for a ton of sports and they will fight tooth and nail to either make you pay for TV or they get a piece of the pie for streaming. So they now allow DAZN to stream their broadcast of NFL but with ads and all.

    The camera feed for the game is either HD or 4K. It then gets transmitted to Bell Media who then retransmits it in 1080i to homes across Canada who are watching on 4K TVs in progressive format. That alone is nasty looking even before we then let DAZN to take that 1080i feed then transmit it through the internet. So we have 4K to 1080i to internet compression.

    If we just let the league renegotiate regional rights directly with streaming platforms rather than TV networks, then we’d go 4K to 4K - field to house. Buttery smooth. We’ll get there one day.

    I’m less privy to the actually needs to game streaming though. You’re saying the input lag problem is borderline impossible?

  • @dipset We would need to process games in a different way than we do now for streaming to be even remotely viable.
    Where a console or computer would render a scene in real time, which allows for real time manipulation, for streaming to avoid latency completely the game would need to process the next few frames before they are even displayed on the screen, which would mean the game would need to predict the player's movements, which would mean it would need to render several possible variants of a scene before pushing it out to the player. Will they keep moving forward? Will they jump? Will they attack? Will they stop and suddenly reverse? Are they going to just suddenly stop and spin in circles for a few seconds?

    The best solution would be to go half and half, which if I remember correctly is something Xbox has been rumored to be doing going into future generations of hardware. Have the hardware render some elements client side while the server renders other, less important elements server side.

    There are solutions, but Stadia isn't it. Purely streaming a game will always have some form of input latency, which, in my opinion, makes it complete and utter trash that I will never use as my primary method of gaming.

  • @lotias We were playing on Wifi on the chromecast, as we were trying to replicate conditions that the average consumer would use for review. He has fast internet for our city's standards, and it was rough.