How do you feel about the security issues Europe is facing
@-Jak- wiser words have never been spoken
Pat last edited by
Thought this was gonna be one big argument.
Buy my opinion on this, is that this was doomed from the start with the massive influx of refugees (not saying all are bad!!!) but when ISIS has 100,000 - 200,000 members with Twitter accounts preaching to a confused young generation of migrants, are people really surprised when members are able to slip though the immigration systems of Europe and in turn attacks happen?
Just so you know, the recent tragedy in Munich was (supposedly) not connected with ISIS, but rather he was a follower of the man who caused the massive killing in Norway in 2011. While it's good to see that not everything is caused by ISIS, it'still sad that so many tragedies are happening so regularly.
Paper Lion last edited by
It makes me think being able to carry some sort of self-defense weapon might actually be necessary these days. The police won't show up in time, it'd be nice if you could do something if the worst happens, aside from trying to punch the person.
Basically it's the wars in the middle east spilling over into Europe. It's a tragedy whenever one of these attacks happens, and there will be more of them for sure, I think that's a given. But it's not actually a threat to any European country or our way of life. Even if they managed to kill thousands with every attack, there are 750 million of us. We survived two world wars, so a bunch of kids with AKs isn't a threat.
It will have an effect on the openness of Europe though. Obviously being very open and expecting everyone to behave like civilized people backfired. Hopefully European security agencies will take this opportunity to step up and become better at sharing information, so that everyone's on the same page, and they all know who to keep an eye on.
@Paper-Lion I don't think that the ability to carry a weapon around will improve much. It didn't improve the life in USA, I sincerely doubt that it would here. I agree that Europe won't change much itself, we've been trough hardships before. But yeah, there will probably be some new approach to the openess of the countries and the EU.
flower_arrangement last edited by
I have to agree, this is not the right place for this conversation.
The forums are blessed with a lovely bunch of people, but that's not enough to safeguard or even justify back and forth on a topic as complex and draining as this.
I understand and respect the intention, but request that we drop this. It's a road to nowhere.
@flower_arrangement and the conversations about if the Witcher 3 is as good as it is or if Overwatch deserves to be GOTY are not back and forth and draining?
One of the reasons that Easy allies chose this name for itself is so that it could expand on other areas. I admit that politics is a bit far from video games or entertainment in general, but we it's still part of us,even if you don't want anything of it.
Also you need knowledge to form a good constructive argument about videogames as well as topics as this. You can choose to not get into it, which is perfectly fine, but please don't look down on us just because we care for it and want to have a civilized conversation about it.
A lot of other conversations on this forum are a road to nowhere, but are still there for people who want to express their opinion.
flower_arrangement last edited by flower_arrangement
You can't seriously compare conversation about the Witcher to European security issues which involve real actual loss of life.
That said I agree that the content of the forums is up to us, the users, and in that spirit my response was just that, my thoughts on the matter.
It wasn't my intention to look down on anyone, if it came across that way then I apologise. However, knowledge is one thing - and we can get into how much anyone outside of Europe, or even within it, fully grasps the how and why of it - my complaint is more emotionally driven. We're talking about death, political reality and lived experience, my appeal is emotional, don't get into it out of respect for those directly involved and out of respect for not risking real hurt even if the intention is good natured.
I am against censorship of any form, so this may seem deeply hypocritical, but there are, in my opinion, more suitable venues for this kind of engagement. It's not a purely academic, informed topic, it's fraught, dire and all too real. That said if you want to discuss it I won't stand in your way, as above, simply adding my voice to a community I care about.
Guest last edited by Guest
@flower_arrangement Then our ideas differ here. You don't want to talk about it out of the respect for those involved and the severity of the events, but I think it is because of that same respect that this should be discused. Sure, it's a demanding topic, but simply avoiding it won't make it dissapear or make it any better. I think it is fair to those directly involved that this issue is taken into consideration, exactly because of how dire it is. Even if we debate about it here, it probably won't bring any solutions, but we can learn and make ourselves better.
If you don't want to talk about it because of emotional reasons, I understand. These things are hard, but they won't end by just looking away. I want to face these happenings, because of how important they are. It is really hard topic, sure, and is very emotionally impactful and very real, but I don't want to fear it just because of it's scale and depth. I encourage you to discuss it, it won't bite and you are amongst most frendly people here, who won't judge you, but I won't force you either. This is a topic that you must want to take part in.
And if anyone reading these posts was directly affected by these events, or is close to someone who was and would like that this discussion stops, please say so and I will stop and I apologise if I caused any more harm that you've already suffered and I'm sorry if appeared to be emotionless jerk. It was not my intention and I don't and probably won't know what hardships you must go through.
flower_arrangement last edited by
Hey hey, perhaps not for me to say but you're far from an emotionless jerk!
I'm a bit hamstrung on this. On the one hand I don't want to neuter discussion, on the other I really don't think this is the best space for it.
I'm by no means advocating looking away, I just don't think this is the right territory for it. You know what? I'll be right or wrong based on the conversation held here. So let me step back (I might even come back in and talk openly about how I see things) and let's see how it goes. Despite my misgivings I do have a certain amount of faith in the community that's building here.
Does that sound fair enough?
@flower_arrangement go for it.
ChoppedLiver02 last edited by ChoppedLiver02
@Nillend TBH More lax gun control is only a part of the violence problem in america, along with the war on drugs and a generally more aggressive culture also being a big part. Isn't there some country in europe that lets all citizens carry assault rifles and a super low gun violence rate since they're not too much culturally like america. Idk, I live in Canada, and the government used a dumb work-around where you could have hunting rifles but people weren't allowed to buy bullets or something, it was really dumb and didn't really change anything, so they stopped.
@ChoppedLiver02 You might speak of Switzerland, but I don't think they can carry firearms around there. Even if they can I don't think they do, even though the possesion percentage is high. But the law differs depending on a country and there are si many of them. Generally it is allowed to posess a gun, but the licences are hard to gain and then there are complications about caliber and ammo etc. Again it really depends on the individual country.
But I agree that it also depends on other things, like demographics, culture etc.
Art Banned last edited by
Basically it's the wars in the middle east spilling over into Europe.
Spilling over? They literally INVITED them over.
It's a house party that's gotten out of control.
I'm very concerned about Gamescom in cologne next month, especially because my friend wants to go there.
sonmi last edited by sonmi
How do I feel? It stresses me out, especially considering I have to go to Berlin for work this upcoming Fall.
I think any attempt to get people not to jump to conclusions is only going to lead people to get angrier and angrier. Simple things like referring to Middle-Easterners simply as "Asians" in articles detailing crimes is small, but still has impact. Stuff like trying to hide the Cologne attacks is simply vile.
In any case, the current situation is poisonous for atheists, Christians, Jews, and Muslims alike. My European Muslim friends are more angry than ever at their own nation and at their own religion. The few Jews I'm in contact with seem to all want to get the hell out of France as soon as possible. And the right is coming back under the ugly guise of ultra-nationalism.
Things are going to shits, that's the most accurate way to describe it.
Abdul M last edited by
Fear makes people irrational and leads them towards bad decisions. The reality of us experiencing terrorism first hand is extremely small even with recent events taken into consideration. That doesn't mean countries shouldn't be more vigilant in identifying, pursuing and dealing with terrorists within our borders but we shouldn't choose how we solve that issue out of fear.
A big problem is the media. There's been a few mentions already of generalisations made but more than that the relentless coverage just serves fuel Islamophobia while also serving as the best marketing for terrorist groups. when groups will claim ownership of attacks they aren't involved in and media is happy to report that it surely makes things worse. The terrorists want to inspire fear among non-muslims and muslims. Making both sides fear the other out of ignorance. That only works on a small percentage of people but it's enough apparently.to sustain the fear. Working to break that is difficult.
Maybe being in Britain I feel less threatened by the issue. My family are originally from Asia and I was brought up a Muslim. The reality is i'm likely to face racism more than terrorism and even likelier that i could get killed in a traffic accident but i life live without fear of those thing dictating my decisions and outlook. I trust (rightly or wrongly) our governments to do the best they can to protect us to the best of their abilities. I still believe Europe as a whole is one of the safest places to be.
A final point. I absolutely understand the reluctance of members not to engage or welcome this conversation. Honestly, i often shy away from political or religious debates online because they're just too heavy and often devolve into anarchy. That said smaller arena's like this, where the community is fairly tight-knit, are capable of having these discussions. They can get heated but if the basic respect is there then it should be fine. Plus i'm sure there's a mod or two around if someone decides to be a nuisance.
jipostus last edited by
Whilst I try my best to ignore these things, as I have more than enough things to worry about in my own life, but I'm somewhat scared, even though so far it's relatively safe here in Finland. I feel like humanity is tearing itself apart for more or less insane reasons. There is not much we can do to fix things, but to hope that the ISIS threat and such can be neutralized.
-Jak- last edited by
I'm glad this thread has become a place where people can express their concerns.
Haru17 last edited by Haru17
@ChaosBahamut The problem with a lot of places in Europe is that immigrants don't integrate into the population and settle in self-contained communities. The local police forces then don't have an in to that neighborhood to know when random disaffected citizens might be planning an attack.
Given that, what exactly are you suggesting? That changing rhetoric might help identify threats? How?
You say "round up suspected ISIS members," but western governments already do that. The people who stage attacks aren't holding a bomb labeled "Islamic Terrorism," they're unknowns. What then are you suggesting we do? Somehow target Muslim populations in the west while simultaneously protecting their rights?
There is no just way to conduct racial profiling.
The answer is not to react rashly and violently, as shortsighted and short-tempered people are want to do. Society, and all of human history, is a great mass. Within it exist the memories of countless generations. They have all died to further society and its justness, humanity nearing closer to unity with each generation (And they all had much greater numbers of dead, too. The amount of people killed in attacks is astronomically low: many more are killed by car accidents or preventible disease.). These kinds of shortsighted persecutions will only incite greater violence, pushing society back and charging the cycle of hatred in the process.
If you wish to actively curtail the number of dead, then governmental outreach programs such as language classes, shared community spaces, and education to bring people out of poverty will do so. Divisive moralizing and "crackdowns" will spin the cycle of hatred further, but only unification can stop it.
I'm an American, if you couldn't tell by my referring to Europe broadly as "Europe." I think the same trend is affecting the US: both attacks and the racist right (Trump) rearing it's head to shout about "evil foreigners."