Summer Game Fest



  • "Features no ray tracing" lol
    What the actual fuck?

    Do people not understand that the object of ray tracing is to more realistically simulate photoreal global illumination, which is what this demo was demonstrating in Lumen?

    I looked at the paltry 3 comments on that article, and apparently no. They don't. Like, specifically programmed ray tracing is likely going to be a part of the UE5 suite. But they were showing off Lumen.

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  • "This 'automobile' or whatever you call it seems fine - but there's nowhere to attach the horses!"



  • @tokyoslim The general idea is;

    sub 1440/30 is a disappointing performance point for showing off next gen. Same way as people were disappointed by Unisoft saying the new Assassin's Creed will be at least 30fps.

    UE5 light solution is inferior to hardware ray-tracing. It will support it as a complement to Lumens as it was already confirmed by Epic. So it is concerning how much burden that will be when the performance was already disappointing to begin with.

    But the same UE engineer that made the statement that his laptop was able to run that demo at better than the PS5 (1440/40) also said that optimized target of that demo for next gen systems it's 60fps. So at least that is good news. I don't mind a less optimal lighting solution as long 60fps can be achieved.



  • @phbz said in Summer Game Fest:

    showing off next gen

    What gaming engines do what UE5 does in that demo at a higher resolution/framerate than UE5?
    You can't answer that question because it's a false assumption. You don't know what UE5 is capable of other than what they showed us. They weren't trying to show off 4k/60p gameplay - which was obvious from the literal words they spoke and what they were showing during the demo. They weren't showing off next gen in the way you wanted them to. But it's undeniably a leap in next gen game engine tech and everybody seems hell bent on bending over backwards to say it's nothing.

    UE5 light solution is inferior to hardware ray-tracing.

    You are comparing apples to oranges here. Lumen is an in-engine real time global lighting solution. Global means "all in one" in this case. It is a lighting TECHNIQUE (that includes real time pre-render ray tracing). What you're talking about - Hardware based ray tracing is a post-render lighting EFFECT.

    The point of the demo wasn't to show off the PS5 hardware's ray tracing, but the engine's pre-render global illumination engine.

    Again, it's not a video game, it's a set of tools for people that MAKE video games.



  • Here's DF's breakdown
    Youtube Video



  • @tokyoslim Really don't know who's this everybody saying that's nothing. From forums and social media the reaction was overwhelmingly positive.

    Again the disappointment comes from the performance. It's no coincidence that a choice was made to show it as "gameplay", they could have shown real-time graphics in other ways. They also choose that performance profile locked at 30fps. This was in no way aimed at developers, the talk was way too high level to be directed at a professional crowed.

    The criticism isn't even being directed at Epic or the engine. Sony has been hyping their SSD to high heaven and the first time we see it in action it doesn't quite reach expectations. People have been asking for 60fps for next gen. Then the whole thing stinks of a marketing deal, with Epic avoiding mentioning directly anything other than PS5. To make it worse, in the following days they start to openly talk about it and now admitting that the whole demo can run on current gen GPU and SSD and actually outperform the PS5.

    People, generally speaking, are fed up of marketing stunts. That's where the growing negative comes from.

    Same with last weeks Microsoft event. By the end I was happy to see new games, like I'm happy to see UE5, but pissed on how idiotic and wrong MS marketing was.



  • @phbz said in Summer Game Fest:

    Really don't know who's this everybody saying that's nothing

    You must not have seen the PC Gamer headline.

    This was in no way aimed at developers, the talk was way too high level to be directed at a professional crowed.

    Can you explain this to me, because this seems contradictory?
    You think gamers know game dev better than devs do?

    You think gamers care about how universal lighting and nano polygon rendering or whatever can save them render cycles?



  • @tokyoslim High level as in programming languages, more accessible. Low level demanding more abstraction, sorry for the confusion.

    There's several layers when you market s product. There's a huge enthusiastic crowd that care about that, than there's an even bigger segment of casual that will just react to the eye candy. Professionals were obviously a target too, but to a lesser extent in that particular event.



  • Again, you think the high level talk about pixel cost and LOD overhead and such was directed at...gamers?



  • @tokyoslim Do you think Digital Foundry videos are aimed at developers?



  • @phbz Digital Foundry - who explains things? No.
    They aren't selling Digital Foundry Engine to developers. They are selling explainations of what Epic's technology means for gamers - since the actual Epic showcase doesn't necessarily go into that - because it was focused at devs.



  • @tokyoslim Are you a developer then? Because here you are talking about triangle meshes and Lumens, doing damage control as if you were and employee of Epic or Sony. It must mean you're one right?

    Talks about polygons, blast processing and other technical stuff was always part of gaming marketing. Plus, when a company buys a publicity slot they fully understand what is their audience. You serious believe that a multi-bilion dollar company decided to show off its engine to the world, in a partnership with Sony, during the Summer of Games Fest, because they were interested to make a technical presentation to developers?

    No, they fully knew developers were going to be a tiny fraction of the public. But they knew this would generate buzz, people were going talk about it, share the video, make videos about it and have discussions like the ones we're having. And Sony knew this was a good opportunity to pay Epic and show off the PS5.

    For Epic this went great, the overall reaction was good which then yes, will have the impact they need with their direct costumers, the developers, from which Epic gets paid if they sell us enough games. For Sony it resulted on a bit of backlash but overall was positive too. I mean twitter was literally flooded with gamers losing their minds over this. Facebook had people swearing this wouldn't run in anything other than a PS5 and its supercharged SSD. Forums have us arguing over it. As the video ended I got a text from a more casual friend saying she was feeling emotional with what the PS5 was going to achieve.

    And then you have developers, who are excited but still not sure how it will exactly affect them. Which is natural since the product isn't even finished.



  • You serious believe that a multi-bilion dollar company decided to show off its engine to the world, in a partnership with Sony, during the Summer of Games Fest, because they were interested to make a technical presentation to developers?

    Uh, yes. I do. Because in a normal year, this is pretty commonly something that happens at GDC, which is an event that Epic pulled out of this year and said back in Feb that they would be distributing their planned GDC content through other channels.

    They had a very similar demo/walkthrough/talk in a partnership with Nvidia a few years back for UE4 at GDC.



  • @tokyoslim Completely in agreement. Minecraft has shown us that the biggest thing in games can come straight out of a bedroom. It's important to Epic that they try and get Unreal into every project that they can. The money they lose from marketing it to everyone is gained by the few projects that break that $1mil mark.



  • So... What do you guys think Nintendo will do this year? We already know they won't attend the SGF. Do you think they will do a Direct as presentation about the upcoming years?



  • Word on the street is that they've scrapped any plan for a Direct for the foreseeable future, so they'll probably drop their reveals one by one like they did for Paper Mario last week.



  • @axel

    Is there a spesific reason for that? I would like to see a complete 45-60 minutes presentation with all things.



  • @scotty Too much disruption due to covid apparently, uncertain release dates, so they'd rather announce things as they come rather than have a huge blowout with half the stuff ending up delayed down the line or something. But most of it is speculation, maybe they'll surprise us!



  • @axel

    They can do it without giving exact dates.



  • @axel In Japan meeting face to face is really important in business. Often meetings that could happen easily over the phone are done face to face out of respect and whatnot.

    I imagine they’re struggling to make many decisions quickly.