Contentious Videogame Opinions

  • @phbz You take that back!

  • @sazime casting a very wide trigger net there. Examples?

  • One of those topics where "I think" or "I feel" should be put before everyone's controversial statements but in the spirit of playing along:

    Inside was an extremely overrated game where you just go right, solve some mediocre puzzles, and imagine the story yourself because the devs were too lazy to actually think one up themselves, and the only reasons people loved it was because it reused the less than fresh style the exact same studio used on Limbo before it except prettied up, and the crazy ending twist, which as the end of the game left people with something to talk about, spreading word of the game, and took people's attention away from all the bland stuff before it. It would've legitimately been a better game had the whole game been that, as Carrion is going to show us.

    Many games are guilty of this, but it also furthered the problematic stereotype of all dogs being violent and dangerous beasts, which often leads to people developing phobias and reservations when they've never interacted with a real one. And yes, I know neglected and specifically trained pet dogs can be capable of violence, but it is hardly the norm, so when every single dog in a game is an attack dog used to instill fear on the player, it just gives the wrong impression overall. We've gotten used to them as common video game enemies, and I'm not saying stop using them entirely. I'm just saying either slap a notice in there that not all dogs are vicious or add good dogs that help the player or are just chill and sweet in some separate sections, so your entire game doesn't paint dogs as horrible, vicious monsters to run from.

    Sidenote though, I actually think games like Maneater are fine, despite doing a similar thing to sharks, because it is clearly meant to be more of a extraordinary parody about an individual for the sake of fun, although one could argue it still continues to enforce an ongoing unfair stereotype society has leaned hard into despite over time relatively few cases of shark attacks, which are also usually justified by the really dumb actions of the humans involved, and then on the side glorifying other animals like Dolphins that are deceptively naturally more dangerous.

    Super Mario Odyssey is stealth one of the worst 3D Mario entries, because it is padded out with tons of bloat, ruining any sense of replay value, and the entire game is disgustingly easy, even the majority of the postgame challenges that are meant to be difficult. But because every time someone grabs a Moon every 20 seconds it triggers a dopamine response, people are all about it. People complain about FLUDD ruining difficulty in Sunshine, but Cappy gets a free pass! Also, it has very little memorable music, but people think it has a GOAT soundtrack because all they think of is Jump Up, Super Star! What should be one of the most interesting parts of the game, Ruined Kingdom, is squandered entirely and just a glorified Boss Fight. Not to say Odyssey is a bad game overall, just it isn't remotely as good as people treat it, especially compared to the other 3D Mario games. They don't even let you play as Peach postgame, despite her having her own Cappy equivalent and lots of fun outfits, and don't even get me started on how dirty they did my boy Luigi. Apples to Oranges, but 3D World is easily the stronger game between the two.

  • @mbun yeah Mario Odyssey was the first time I can recall playing a Mario game where I just said to myself "this game is kinda boring"

  • @mbun

    I disagree with you on Inside. I played that game with headphones on and I was completely spooked out between the drone people and the eerie music and the THUD THUD THUD coming from the factory far away. I also adored the use of 3D space, I've never seen a game do that before. Not gonna die on the hill saying the game has good puzzles (it doesn't) or that scrolling right the whole time is fantastic. But damn I loved that game.

    I basically agree with everything you say about Odyssey. The game felt really short. I couldn't believe it was only 9 "real" kingdoms with like 6 or 7 mini ones or boss battle only kingdoms. Then when you take those 9 real ones, some are pretty small and some are just unenjoyable.

    Mario Odyssey might be the best 8/10 I've ever played, but the length and scope is disappointing. As Don says: "I open up my mailbox, 'oh look, a Power Moon!'"

  • @mbun Jump Up Superstar was just annoyingly catchy. Wooded Kingdom's song was golden. And as much as I loved the game, it is not something I look forward to getting 100% in ever again.

  • @dipset said:

    I disagree with you on Inside.

    Good to know I at least met the topic's qualifications. But yeah, I've learned to generally shut up about my feelings on Inside because pretty much everyone else I've spoken to loves the game. I just don't see it, and I got frustrated trying to force myself to find the good in it.

    @E_Zed_Eh_Intern said:

    Wooded Kingdom's song was golden.

    I really hope you don't mean this one, because that song got on my nerves so much by the time I was done there. Was okay at first, but not after collecting Moons there for awhile. All the good music in the game is hidden away like this one that plays in a short underwater tunnel in Lake Kingdom most players go through only once because a shortcut around it is unlocked afterwards, this one that plays from a radio on top of a random building in New Donk City that you have to stop and sit next to if you even want to hear it, and finally probably the least "hidden" this one which sounds like music that got lost on its way to Windwaker. The game's musical identity is so all over the place that the climax escape sequence is basically 3D Sonic music.

  • @mbun I absolutely did mean that song, love it!

  • @bard91 What's terrible about Uncharted's stories and unlikeable about Nathan Drake?

    What's mediocre about Wrath of the White Witch?

  • @jdincinerator Not them but every single Uncharted I've ever played (1 and 4) were basically about white dudes going on adventures to line their pockets with ancient treasure from other countries while murdering waves and waves of dudes in the process in "self defense". Nathan Drake wasn't rescuing his girlfriend or saving the world. He just wanted loot. What a fantastic role model for the target audience to idolize. At least Indiana Jones was foiling Nazis and recovering stuff for museums.

    I don't know about the first Ni No Kuni, but the second was terrible, and I still can't believe Damiani scored it as high as he did.

  • @jdincinerator and heeeeeere comes that one mod.

    Personally, for Uncharted, I have a really weird take on the series. I think they're all good but definitely overrated...but then I've platinumed the first 3. Like I never think of them when I'm asked about games I love but I clearly dishate them enough to play them more than once. I wouldn't say the stories are bad but they are pretty standard fare but then, that's how they should be. These games are supposed to be Indiana Jones, not Citizen Kane.

    As for Ni No Kuni, I've heard more than one person complain about the combat and I get it. It's definitely quite light. Also, the world map not being to scale I believe bothered some. I guess parts of it weren't as brilliant as people had expected with Studio Ghibli involved. Ding Dong Dell though, how good was that?!

  • @jdincinerator the uncharted stories are overall pretty lazy and uninspired, this guy happens to be a treasure hunter and finds a lead of a legendary thingy that he wants and that are always in some legendary forgotten place that no one has been in or knows how to get there, and all of the developments in between are just whatever needs to happen for this guy to get to point B in the most traumatic and dramatic way possible, making way for a never ending set of arenas to kill people in the name of treasure and with flashy set pieces in between to make sure the game is exciting, because who needs actual drama and engagement when you can have a nice looking set piece moment.

    Nothing in the Uncharted games I've played (1-3) is even remotely memorable and Drake goes through such an absurd amount of pain and life ending injuries that I can't feel any simpathy with all of the plot armor he has on, add to that plot holes and just non-sensical decisions, I particularly remember being offput by it when he was stranded in the Rub'al Khali desert half dead, but no it's fine he just walks for hours in one of the most inhospitable enviroments on Earth and until he reaches a town and gets into a firefight not 5 minutes after, I don't have a problem suspending my disbelief but I'm gonna call stupid stupid.

    As for what is unlikeable about Nathan Drake, this is very subjective, but he was never a likeable character to me, never liked anything about how he behaved or what he said.

    As for Ni No Kuni, terrible combat and party AI, very generic and uninteresting world design, an incredibly simplistic story that carried little emotional weight, repetitive quest design with a mechanic that is implemented in a way that treats the player like a toddler that is completely unable to solve the most basic of puzzles, even after they've been done dozens of times before.

  • @mbun I can't argue with those points you bring up about the Uncharted series but I do think the gameplay and Nathan Drake's charms are enough for those issues to be overlooked.

    The second Ni No Kuni I think has better combat than the first but the story, characters and sense of whimsy have been diminished.

  • @e_zed_eh_intern What does that first bit mean?

    Uncharted is successful at being an adventure that sucks gamers in and enthralls them with unforgettable set piece moments. I don't think too much about white supremacy in Uncharted games, I'm too busy getting mesmerised by a piece of train tearing off and barreling uncontrollably towards me. I think Naughty Dog and SONY want games to be emotionally rich-Indiana Jones is a classic series but Nazis being the villain is an overdone trope-but then again I suppose you can't make villains out of ant people.

    I love Ni No Kuni: Wrath of the White Witch-but admittedly more for its sublime story and characters than its gameplay.

  • @bard91 Don't you think Uncharted cribs from Tomb Raider to get some of these haphazard ideas? I guess many of us are duped by Uncharted's rollicking set-piece bonanza, but then it's a videogame and I don't think videogames have to make sense and caring about characters isn't always a must.

    Uncharted is probably a series where the suspension of disbelief is essential, or if you do realise it's all unbelievable then it's best not to think of the game with regards to realism. I don't really care about Nathan Drake or his plight, but I indulge in the set-pieces and pacing-that's where I cannot deny how great the series is in terms of its gameplay-even if it can be boiled down into a shooting gallery with some nice spectacles peppered in-between.

    Drake is a bit of a five letter word but I think he has some cool moments and jokes that provide momentary humour-much better than many of today's serious games that try to make us care like Detroit: Become Human.

    If you're referring to Wrath of the White Witch then ok. I happen to love Wrath of the White Witch but I understand how the gameplay quite annoying at times. I cannot say the game has little emotional weight unless you're talking about Revenant Kingdom. I love the soundtrack of Wrath of the White Witch almost as much as its story and characters-the gameplay is marmite but I think it's worth trawling through to see the story, characters and worlds.

  • I don't get why people love Detroit: Become Human either. I felt no connection to the game's characters and situations where I'm meant to care are laughable to me. Also Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order is janky and the protagonist looks like Tom Holland's Peter Parker.

  • @jdincinerator said in Contentious Videogame Opinions:

    @e_zed_eh_intern What does that first bit mean?

    I don't think too much about white supremacy in Uncharted games

    Come again?

  • @jdincinerator no video games don't have to make sense or makes us care (but I prefer by a lot when they do), I'm playing Battle for Bikini Bottom right now and loving it and it does none of that, but Uncharted doesn't offer anything to compensate for that, at least for me, since it is a game with bad to decent gameplay, worse story and a pretty face that does little to win me over.

    I in particular find the set pieces that Uncharted has popularized as cheap and rarely entertaining, certainly nothing memorable and in many cases actually taking away from the games were they appear, to me it reminds me of the G.I Joe movie I saw in the theater some 5 years ago with my brother, it had a lot of entertaining set pieces while watching the movie that kept us mildly entertained while watching it, and as soon as it was over we both said it was terrible.

    Again subjective but I don't remember finding Drake enterntaining myself, and I personally haven't played David Cage's games since Fahrenheit for reasons, but there are plenty of serious games that do a much better job than Uncharted in making likeable characters, for my money at least.

    I've only played NNK 1, I refuse to ever play 2 after how bad the first one was, the soundtrack was fine that is something I've never critiqued.

  • Uncharted 4 is quite literally two brothers driven to madness about their bond over a secret pirate island that may or may not exist. That game is especially beyond the treasure motivation.

    Uncharted 1 and 2 are about Drake's obsession over proving the existence of something that history deems mythical or proving history itself wrong.

    I think it's wrong to say they are driven by loot.

  • @jdincinerator said:

    Nathan Drake's charms

    Sully is the only one I found charming.