Best Video Game Console - Tournament



  • N64 was the last Nintendo console I really liked. Rogue Squadron, Whatever wrestling game that was I played forever. No Mercy? MK Trilogy,



  • @Mbun I went and made a hefty list of swell Nintendo 64 games.

    Also @Shoulderguy @Lotias , shouldn't this thread be in the Gaming section?



  • Alright, I haven't seen any new votes since yesterday so I'm closing this one a little early.

    Here are the results:

    Group A

      1. PlayStation 2 vs. 16. Atari Lynx (12-1)
      1. Sega Genesis vs. 9. Nintendo 64 (7-9)
      1. Game Boy Advance vs. 12. Master System (11-2)
      1. Xbox 360 vs. 13. TurboGrafx-16 (12-1)
      1. Nintendo Entertainment System vs. 11. Wii U (10-3)
      1. PlayStation vs. 14. Intellivision (11-2)
      1. Nintendo Switch vs. 10. GameCube (11-4)
      1. PlayStation 4 vs. 15. N-Gage (11-2)

    Now, here are the first round match-ups from the other side of the bracket.

    Group B

    1. Nintendo DS vs. 16. Magnavox Odyssey

    8. Super Nintendo vs. 9. Atari 2600

    5. PlayStation Portable vs. 12. PlayStation Vita

    4. PlayStation 3 vs. 13. Sega Saturn

    6. Nintendo 3DS vs. 11. Sega Game Gear

    3. Wii vs. 14. Dreamcast

    7. Xbox One vs. 10. Xbox

    2. Game Boy & Game Boy Color vs. 15. ColecoVision

    Edit: I had the seeding numbers mixed up for Group A. It's fixed now.



  • Two inter-competing matchups here are the most intriguing: The battle of the Playstation handhelds and the conflict of Xboxes. And I'm predicting a Playstation platfrom will make the Semifinals in Group B. Also I'm not surprised the closest Group A outcome was the 8/9 match, but the second round implications are already massive heavy hitters for EVERY matchup.



  • @brannox Yeah, the second round should be real interesting. This is just the calm before the Kill Your Babies storm.



  • Wii U didn't deserve to lose to the NES. NES has legacy sure, but I remember growing up with one. Most the games sucked. You couldn't save, so you had to just leave the system on for days at a time if you were playing a longer game. It hooked up to the tv in a really annoying way. You had to blow into the cartridges just to get them to barely work, and the spring mechanism for inserting them felt super shoddy too. The controller was also a dumb basic box with very few inputs and a shape that made your hands cramp if you played it too long. The only "best" the NES has going for it was leading the home gaming revolution along with the Famicom.

    Wii U didn't have a good name or popularity, but it had purpose and heart. There's still things Wii U does better than Switch due to the nature of being able to have a second screen experience. Wii U had a whole social network integrated into it for years. The games for the most part were insanely good, except for the multiplat ports, but NES wasn't terribly better on that front. Wii U also continued the Virtual Console legacy and in general just had a whole fucking Wii crammed in there, making Wii wholly inferior. Wii U was crazy experimental like the Dreamcast, but I guess we're just not to the point in history yet where people are ready to appreciate that.



  • @mbun I always appreciated the Wii U. As with most things in gaming, while most were busy hating on the Wii U I was having fun with it.



  • NES vs Wii U was definitely the hardest choice for me in the first round. The NES was my very first console and it spawned quite a few of Nintendo's best series, so its legacy can't be denied.

    But all the great points brought up by @Mbun absolutely play in Wii U's favor, it really was the Dreamcast of its generation. I think anyone who's owned one loved it, although the game droughts could be painful at times. Since I never owned a Wii, it was also the opportunity for me to catch up on all the greats from the previous gen, so I always had something to play on it.



  • Man, I would be so bummed if PSP lost to the Vita. The library of games that the PSP had is much more varied, deep, and charming.

    • It's packed to the brim with great racing games (Motorstorm Arctic Edge, WipEout Pure and Pulse, Burnout Legends, Gran Turismo, Ridge Racer, and so much more), which is one of my favorite things about it.
    • Big hitters like Crisis Core FF VII, the God of War games, Persona 3 Portable, the Grand Theft Auto games and MGS Peace Walker are not to be messed with.
    • Not to mention all the underrated stuff like Sid Meier's Pirates, Star Wars Battlefront II/Renegade Squadron/Elite Squadron, Ratchet and Clank Size Matters, LocoRoco, Patapon, Monster Hunter Freedom Unite and Killzone Liberation.

    I have played so many PSP games and I still have a lot to play. I still have a part of my list of to-buy games from back in the day, and there's 7 games here. Meanwhile, I just lost interest in using my Vita for anything other than trying out PS1 stuff and Persona 4 Golden.

    I know the PSP's missing right analog hurts it quite a bit (especially for FPS/TPS, but even then there's still a good amount of fun shooters on it) , but man I just could not care less for the Vita's library. It has a pretty decent Uncharted game, at least.



  • @Mbun

    The Wii U is a bit too much of a mixed bag for me to deeply appreciate. Yes, it had some very good games, full Wii BC, Miiverse, and occasional good uses for the second screen. But it was also unappealing in a few ways.

    The OS was incredibly slow. Switching between different system menus took more than a few ticks, and downloading/installing updates took ages. The build quality of the Gamepad felt a bit below par, with a thin-feeling faceplate, rattling buttons, and unsatisfying button presses. The default battery also drained quickly.

    Nintendo put out some memorable games for it (Mario Kart 8, Pikmin 3, DKCTF, Splatoon, Wind Waker HD, Super Mario Maker, BotW, Bayonetta 2, Xenoblade Chronicles X, Captain Toad, Yoshi's Woolly World, Pokkén Tournament), but some felt like 'checking a franchise box' (Super Mario 3D World, Smash), some were just 'there' (Nintendoland, Twilight Princess HD, Tokyo Mirage Sessions), and some were wholly unsatisfying (Star Fox Zero, Mario Tennis, Paper Mario...Animal Crossing: Amiibo Festival -_-). And because of the invisible (even by Nintendo's standards) third-party support, the release schedule for these games always felt like more than a comfortable wait.

    But what really put the nail in the Wii U's coffin of notoriety is that, with the announcement of Pikmin 3 Deluxe, the Switch now has a port, sequel, or better franchise installment of just about all the top games I listed (except Wind Waker HD, and Yoshi is debatable), as well as most of the other Nintendo published games. The Switch also feels like a fleshed-out Wii U, being a more portable, more satisfying to use Gamepad. All it's missing is OS features like Netflix, Miiverse, and the internet browser. But I'll take a speedy OS over a packed one, and you're likely to be too busy playing awesome games to care about the missing features much.

    EDIT

    The NES had it's faults, but it revived the North American gaming industry, and birthed many industry-defining franchises. And though not a ton of games used it, it was still responsible for popularizing battery-backed saves.



  • @oscillator Mostly agree with that, although Paper Mario Color Splash is way better than people give it credit for. Has easily the best writing of any Paper Mario game, a more fleshed out combat system then Origami King, and I feel like the story is way better and goes cooler places overall. Plus the Paint mechanic that got watered down into the Confetti one in Origami King was more satisfying before. Either way, it definitely doesn't belong on a list among Star Fox Zero, that abysmal Mario Tennis game, and the failed merchandising / party game experiment. I wouldn't ever call 3D World just checking a box either, that was NSMB U's job anyways, plus Nintendoland is the pack-in game nobody asked for, but actually ended up being pretty unique and fun in the right setting too.

    The other thing I disagree with is Switch just being allowed to take credit for all of Wii U's greatest games. Sure, they're rereleasing them with some extra content or making sequels on Switch, but those games were made for the Wii U and would not have existed without it. There's also certain ones like Mario Maker that were better back on Wii U given how the Gamepad worked along with it. Splatoon's way of using the Gamepad as a map was superior to how 2 had to handle it as well, although that's not as large of a downgrade. Pikmin 3's rerelease might fall into this as well, given the Switch's lack of a Sensor Bar, meaning the Pikmin playstyle many rave about with Wiimote and Nunchuck will probably become impossible to use with this new version.

    It was never really about comparing Wii U to Switch though, and I think most would agree the Switch refined what the Wii U was overall going for, although it still isn't quite the same thing, and the Wii U had all kinds of other experiments going on the Switch doesn't begin to touch. Wii U had stuff like built in video chat, as silly as that is! Wii U also had the superior Pro Controller, with a better battery life and an actually good D-Pad, next to Switch's abominable controllers with jank D-Pads and drifting Analog Sticks. Seriously, what the fuck happened! Point is, we don't need to prop up the Switch anymore than it already is. People already love it, and it already tends to get the credit for much of the Wii U's past work as it is. I was just pointing out that despite people constantly dumping on the Wii U, it actually had quite a bit going for it, easily more than the NES just having the legacy in my opinion.



  • @mbun said in Best Video Game Console - Tournament:

    and the Wii U had all kinds of other experiments going on the Switch doesn't begin to touch.

    IMO, Labo is worth more than all the Wii U's experiments put together. I also initially thought HD Rumble was going to be pointless, but it actually feels very satisfying.

    By far Switch's biggest problem is the hardware design faults (Pro Controller D-pad, stick drift, dock scratching screens, iffy JoyCon rails). I'm positive that most if not all are due to rushing it to market after Wii U tanked.



  • @oscillator said:

    IMO, Labo is worth more than all the Wii U's experiments put together.

    Labo is practically a different thing entirely, but it is very admirable as well.

    I'm positive that most if not all are due to rushing it to market after Wii U tanked.

    The thing is, as people mentioned before, there were literal years the Wii U was still the focus before Switch launched, years where the Wii U content were very, very thin. They had plenty of time to take their time designing and developing during all this. The only thing I could see you arguing maybe pushed the deadline of the Switch hardware forward was the release of Breath of the Wild, but they themselves decided that release date, and it was already pushed back for years and years, so I can't imagine they wouldn't have been fine pushing it back even more if the Switch wasn't "ready" in their opinion. Instead, I think it might have had to do with the level of secrecy around the Switch before launch or maybe the sheer amount of tech they tried cramming into the controllers that caused this. It is kind of bonkers how much is inside a Joycon given the size of it, and even the Pro Controller has quite a bit inside that closest comparison Wii U Pro Controller lacks.



  • @mbun said in Best Video Game Console - Tournament:

    The thing is, as people mentioned before, there were literal years the Wii U was still the focus before Switch launched, years where the Wii U content were very, very thin. They had plenty of time to take their time designing and developing during all this.

    Nintendo 64 lifespan - 5 years, 3 months
    GameCube lifespan - 5 years, 2 months
    Wii lifespan - 6 years
    Wii U lifespan - 4 years, 4 months

    The handheld and console divisions were unified, but the added complexity of the JoyCons may have cancelled that out. In any case, they may still have been expecting a 5 year timeline while developing the Switch.

    There's also the massive hardware security bug and spotty JoyCon wireless connections to add credence to a rushed launch. Nintendo hardware has never had this quantity of defects before.



  • @oscillator said:

    There's also the massive hardware security bug and spotty JoyCon wireless connections to add credence to a rushed launch.

    The hardware security bug is just an example that Nintendo has gotten so big they literally cannot escape the hacking scene, no matter how annoying they make it to pull off. Too many care about finding a way, so they will find a way. The spotty Joycon wireless connection problem was due to them trying to calibrate the Joycon originally so it had a way longer battery life by using way less battery at a time. Problem was they tested them when doing these calibrations in ideal lab settings and not in a home setting where the person isn't necessarily at all close to their console. Was quickly soft patched with just a software patch increasing the amount of battery used to pump a stronger signal. The second part of that whole thing was due to people's huge hands completely encompassing the Joycon, thus blocking the signals sent out, and there was very little they could do about that, besides offering to stuff people's Joycon full of conductive foam for free if sent in, but it still isn't a perfect solution. There's no real way to ever fix that one without just making the Joycon themselves bigger, so people don't entirely smother them with their big hands. There's just straight up no real way to fix that while maintaining the smaller size they're going for. If they were the size of Wiimotes they could route the antenna to a place the hand doesn't naturally cover, but there's no such place on a Joycon when held by someone with big hands. You could call it a design flaw, but it is a solutionless design flaw, so it is more of a neccesary design compromise.



  • I'll be counting all the votes around this time tomorrow. This is just a reminder for anyone who still wants to participate.



  • @mbun said in Best Video Game Console - Tournament:

    The hardware security bug is just an example that Nintendo has gotten so big they literally cannot escape the hacking scene, no matter how annoying they make it to pull off. Too many care about finding a way, so they will find a way. The spotty Joycon wireless connection problem was due to them trying to calibrate the Joycon originally so it had a way longer battery life by using way less battery at a time. Problem was they tested them when doing these calibrations in ideal lab settings and not in a home setting where the person isn't necessarily at all close to their console. Was quickly soft patched with just a software patch increasing the amount of battery used to pump a stronger signal. The second part of that whole thing was due to people's huge hands completely encompassing the Joycon, thus blocking the signals sent out, and there was very little they could do about that, besides offering to stuff people's Joycon full of conductive foam for free if sent in, but it still isn't a perfect solution. There's no real way to ever fix that one without just making the Joycon themselves bigger, so people don't entirely smother them with their big hands. There's just straight up no real way to fix that while maintaining the smaller size they're going for. If they were the size of Wiimotes they could route the antenna to a place the hand doesn't naturally cover, but there's no such place on a Joycon when held by someone with big hands. You could call it a design flaw, but it is a solutionless design flaw, so it is more of a neccesary design compromise.

    I'm curious why you seem hellbent on insisting the Switch wasn't rushed to market. Like I said, "Nintendo hardware has never had this quantity of defects before." The only prior widespread defect I can even recall off the top of my head is the cracking DS/3DS hinges. The loosening Nintendo 64 analog stick could also be considered a defect, but that took a long time to wear out to an unusable point.



  • @oscillator Honestly, opposite question right back at you. Why would you think they rushed when there were clearly years and years of basically nothing happening. If they were rushing, Switch would've come out years earlier when it was clear the Wii U was a failed product commercially. No, they clearly waited it out so they could have a strong launch for the Switch, which is easily reflected in the first year the Switch had.



  • @mbun said in Best Video Game Console - Tournament:

    @oscillator Honestly, opposite question right back at you. Why would you think they rushed when there were clearly years and years of basically nothing happening. If they were rushing, Switch would've come out years earlier when it was clear the Wii U was a failed product commercially. No, they clearly waited it out so they could have a strong launch for the Switch, which is easily reflected in the first year the Switch had.

    The software teams are minimally involved with hardware development. Reducing game output does not mean they can make a console faster.



  • @oscillator That still doesn't explain why they didn't pump a Switch out the moment the Wii U was basically wrapped up. They seemed to take their time launching their next console. Remember how early we were hearing NX rumors and how accurate they ended up being? Didn't seem like a rush at all.