Videogame Hot takes
Phbz last edited by
@nimbat1003 I just finished Jedi Fallen Order a few days ago, feels like it still needed more time in the oven. As I wrote here some sections seem like place holders or at least still needing a lot of design tweaks.
Axel last edited by
@capnbobamous I'll do the same and add some buffer for spoilers.
I've also seen a lot of people criticize the game because they felt what you describe: "They are just as angry as Ellie, so when they get to Abby's section they are completely unwilling to see her side, viewing the whole thing as manipulative and inorganic."
To me it's sadly very telling of the type of person they are, if that's how they go through real life too. Explains a lot about certain groups of people who deny facts and stick to their preferred version of "reality" despite all evidence to the contrary, as exemplified by recent political events, if you catch my drift ;)
Also them saying it's manipulative is a ridiculous argument in my opinion, because that's literally what every story ever told does. It's the entire point of storytelling, to frame a series of events from a specific angle to make the viewer/reader/player/listener feel a certain way. So again, it sounds like these people are just refusing to have their minds changed by the revelation of new facts. About a virtual character! Scary, but not surprising.
Back to your suggestion, I understand what you mean but it feels to me that switching to Abbie right after Joel's murder would make the above people hard-quit the game even faster haha. I do agree that I probably reacted the exact way ND expected me to, that's why it worked so well for me.
It would be interesting to make a switched cut of the game, show that to people who haven't experienced it before, and see their reaction.
Nimbat1003 last edited by
Abby was actually my favorite character in the game, I really started to dislike Ellie and frankly most of the supporting characters.
The emotional manipulation in particular annoyed me, personally playing game I killed every dog first before clearing out the people and then they want to make me feel sad for this one dog you killed earlier, same with the pregnant women but who got in there situations from frankly stupid decisions, not too mention by that point Ellie has stabbed her way through half of seattle.
paulmci27 last edited by
The N64 is a terrible console with dated ugly poor controlling games. The Sega Saturn is a way superior console with far better games that are still perfectly playable.
bam541 last edited by bam541
Everytime I see threads like this, I'm always reminded that I'm such a softie. Even with TLOU Part II, I don't have any substantial critique for it. The hottest take I can think of is that cover-based shooters are the easily the best kind of shooters.
Scotty last edited by
The hottest take I can think of is that cover-based shooters are the easily the best kind of shooters.
That's a bit harsh man, don't you think? :/
Phbz last edited by Phbz
Regarding all the TLoU2 polemics it made me realize that I enjoy fiction in a different than many. My thing regarding the characters was as simple as "does their motivations make sense? Yes." And that's it. The game didn't made me hate anyone, or love. I think that's a sign of good writing, being able to get in the skin of every character and feel their actions and motivations make sense in the context they're drawn in.
DMCMaster last edited by
One of the things I've been trying to do for my TLOU video is actually all about the flashbacks (which I'm going to try and finish this weekend) especially since the flashbacks flow much better thematically and fit the narrative better when in chronological order, it also it would give a sort of countdown until the story really kicks off.
Not to mention the gameplay elements of the flashbacks they boil down to being tutorials.
bam541 last edited by
@scotty what do you mean? It's a perfectly fair thought (￣ω￣)
naltmank last edited by
Games should never be longer than 35 hours, and very few games should be longer than 30. If you are not a role playing game you shouldn't be longer than 22 hrs.
DIPSET last edited by
This isn't a spicy hot take but I feel like the expectations from both publishers and players alike make it very difficult for a video game to say or use the media itself to do anything truly meaningful.
What I mean by expectations is how gamers want to trim the fat — tried and true satisfying gameplay with no bullshit. Whereas publishers pretty much want the same thing with a massive return on their already massive monetary investments.
We live in a world where PlayStation's Jim Ryan is claiming new IPs are risky because they cost around $100M. Publishers aren't going to let a game director, even one with pedigree, putter around for a few years trying to envision a meaningful game about themes like loss or grief. Likewise, gamers don't want too much experimentation in their games either. If you're going to tell a story about grief, it isn't going to be like 2019's Midsommar, it's going to be a big violent shooter like The Last of Us Part II.
And to the crux of my hot take; I think this is a issue. What are developers, directors, and publishers physically doing within the video games they create that helps add meaning to the game through gameplay systems or other avenues in-game? Normally challenging stories default to button mashing, shooting, or non-gameplay (so to speak).
Recently, Nakey Jakey put out his TLOU Pt II review and he said something along the lines of "If TLOU2 really wanted to be challenging, it wouldn't have been a typical shooter game," (paraphrased) and that has been lingering around in my mind for a while. Something similarly hot on my mind is the film Ghost World from 2001. Essentially, it's an indie film where a teenager tries to figure out what she really wants in life. I really enjoyed the story but also some of the techniques used to emphasize the theme of isolation. Through some half assed internet research, I learned the director didn't have any extras in the frame to make the setting feel alienating and isolating to the characters. It's just a random example of how a film managed to use the media itself to evoke a feeling from me.
So let's try to imagine a world where a game director on a small or large budget really digs in for a few years and uses the power of game theory to design a vision that truly embodies the theme of alienation or isolation. I have a hard time imagining it. At least not in an effective way. Ultimately, we always seem to land on killing zombies, fighting people, or some other tried and true gameplay system.
What I really want to see but I don't think can happen easily is for somebody to just really go for it. How can a game have a meaningful commentary or theme without resorting to extremely familiar territory? Conversely, how will the gaming community react?
Ironically enough, one major conflict in Ghost World is an art teacher character with a completely warped sense of art needing to be socially meaningful. I don't want my point to come off like I'm holding gaming to some higher standard when solid gameplay is and always has been more than enough to satisfy myself and the millions of gamers worldwide. That said, I never finish a game and say "wow — I really sympathized with these characters from both a gameplay and story standpoint".
I'm also not trying to say video games have never committed to strong visions either. I think of Super Mario Brothers or Dark Souls as games with unfettered commitment to strong game design visions that are executed perfectly. Likewise, we recently got something like I'm describing in Death Stranding. A game about a disconnected society and the gameplay itself helps champion its' themes. It wasn't perfect but I think it's going somewhere with the idea that you don't need a lifeless empty world to portray a fragmented society and you also don't need to be shooting bad guys too.
I hope you stuck through me with all of that, but I really want to walk away from a game feeling WOW'd through its execution of a point or purpose through in-game techniques that aren't necessarily moulded to genres or commercial viability.
DIPSET last edited by
I think my first actual anger towards a bloated game was Shadow of Mordor in 2014. That game had like 2 things going for it — Batman combat and Nemesis system. Everything else was awful including the open environment (small ugly camps), dum dum AI, extremely poor writing, and ass boring missions. Yet, the developers insisted on extending this game out longer and longer. I think at around 25 hours they introduce the mechanic of riding trolls and they randomly even brought in a second more vibrant open world that is disconnected from the first open world but plays the exact same way.
It just kept going and going for the sake of extending the length until it abruptly ends with no story payoffs. That was some of the most offensive stretching I've ever seen in a video game. That should've been wrapped up in 15 hours with open world exploration as an option beyond the main story.
I really miss games like God of War or Uncharted that are single player masterpieces which can be finished in 8-12 hours. Lean and perfect.
naltmank last edited by
@dipset People forget that Chrono Trigger is only like a 20 hour game despite the fact that it's a JRPG, and it's widely considered one of the greatest games of all time
El Shmiablo Banned last edited by
@dmcmaster Exactly. I just that if the flashbacks had been presented as the first part of the story it would give a much better emotional setup for certain controversial events in the game.
Scotty last edited by Scotty
Just teasing you because of your soft beginning. 😁
THANK YOU! I don't want to play a game more than 30 hours. It is enough!
TheMarcV last edited by
@naltmank As someone who plays a lot of games but finishes almost none of them I have to agree. I think there's still a lot of gamers that only see value in games for their run times and not for the quality of the experience. If I could only get a couple games a year I could understand wanting games that last a long time but so often those experiences are just lacking, its hard to make a compelling 100+ hour game.
E_Zed_Eh_Intern last edited by
@paulmci27 I love my N64 and still enjoy a lot of the classics on it...but it's basically the Atari 2600 of 3D gaming. If you weren't there, it's hard to appreciate. And even if you were there, it's appearance has aged the worst by far of the systems from its generation.
TheMarcV last edited by
@e_zed_eh_intern Didn't have an N64 during its gen but of course almost all my friends had one so I got to play it a good amount and I think it had some really good stuff on it. However, over all there wasn't a ton I'd be interested in playing today. The Saturn on the other hand always had a soft spot in my heart, through out the years always thought about picking one up but never pulled the trigger. I still think about getting one.
paulmci27 last edited by paulmci27
@e_zed_eh_intern I was being a bit harsh there. I think I just have a bias l because I loved my Saturn I collected import games as well it has so many great games that no one has ever heard of and probably never get to play.
paulmci27 last edited by
@themarcv Saturn game prices are exorbitant. Hopefully. Sega does something with the back catalogue one day or emulation gets better.