General Pokemon Thread



  • Didn't see a thread for the Pokemon Presents tonight talking about the Gen 4 remakes and Legends of Arceus

    so figured i'd just make a general Pokemon thread.
    talk about all Pokemon related news & Pokemon shit in general here



  • Holy Shit!!!! <3

    Youtube Video



  • I'll admit that it looks a lot more interesting than any Pokemon game in forever. I never really got attached to any Pokemon beyond the Johto League / Pokemon Gold in 1999, and I haven't enjoyed any video games since Ruby in 2003. I feel like the game design here will give me an opportunity to find these newer Pokemon in the wild more naturally rather than shovelling them down my throat every new entry.

    Some of the assets almost look like they were lifted from Daz3D and run through a toonify filter. Some stuff looks photoreal or placeholder. It's definitely a weird art direction.


  • Banned

    Eh, I'll pass.
    This might have impressed last gen but it just looks boring to me. All looks very low effort to me.



  • @dipset i don't think i've actually been as excited for a Pokemon game since Pokemon & Silver as i am now after seeing the latest Pokemon Legends trailer.

    yes it looks alot like Breath of the Wild Pokemon Edition. but that's not a bad thing at all. if pokemon needs to take a page out of zelda in order to evolve it's gameplay and not just be the same old beat the 8 gym leaders then defeat the elite 4 shit it usually pulls then i'm all for it.


  • Banned

    I guess I'm just missing something. This honestly looks like a fan project to me. The graphics look straight up bad even compared to other first party Nintendo games of a similar design.



  • @El-Shmiablo

    This looks good to me:

    0_1629391550252_2f359f4c-a632-4941-bb84-0ad56b04b2b0-image.png

    This looks awful:

    0_1629391579404_03c1eabe-d9b6-43b3-8cee-6d415caf758d-image.png

    It reminds me of free 3D assets online without much treatment.

    It does kinda seem a bit fan projecty but other shots looked okay. Overall it looks weird. I just want a Pokemon game that is less about collecting the new Pokemon (which have been really dumb for like 20 years) and more about an adventure.



  • that guys still trolling huh?


  • Banned

    @yoshi If you consider having an opinion that other people share to be "trolling", then sure.

    Please don't stalk me and my wife on our social media accounts over this comment.


  • Banned

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    0_1629823603415_1629561913691.jpg

    0_1629823665474_1629471336307_edit_257888685241377.png

    Before I am accused of trolling for having an opinion that isn't just blindly gargling Nintendo's load, can anybody explain this to me? How come so many other devs are able to do it while Nintendo/GameFreak seemingly can't?
    I don't buy the excuse that they are on a time limit or need to coincide with other product releases, since they could easily just create another team to offload the games to like AC and CoD do.
    Are they inexperienced with the hardware? Also a bullshit excuse since they have had years to work with it, could hire people familiar with portable hardware, etc.
    Is it because it is an open world game? I think that is a total copout, considering there are several other open world games on the same platform that look astronomically better. Helll, 18 year old hardware is able to push out far better results.
    Is it the style of the game? I'd say that is also a dumb excuse, as there are many games with a similar, cartoonish style that don't look like straight up PS2 games.



  • I think it's a rather pointless argument to be honest. I've always considered Pokemon to be a game marketed towards kids and I think things like difficulty, complexity, control and, I'm sorry to say, visuals all come into play when creating a game for this age range.
    I personally think Minecraft is ugly as hell, that said though, I don't believe it would have sold nearly quite as well had the game launched with realistic. top of the range visuals for the time.
    Trust me, there's definitely value in visual simplicity.



  • @El-Shmiablo
    I'm done trying to make sense of Gamefreak art direction and technical woes. The closest I can get to piecing everything together is:

    a)
    Gamefreak harkens back to the dated and objectively incorrect logic that stimulation is bad for kids or that kids cannot process or appreciate high quality or complex art.

    Source: My little nieces and nephews.
    Talk to literally any 4 to 13 year old nowadays and they have particular tastes about video games they enjoy and can adequately perform high action input for complex genres like Battle Royal or Survival. Likewise, kids as young as 4 years old know they like Minecraft aesthetic more than generic web-game, etc.

    b)
    They have no monetary incentive to care about making Pokemon look like BotW let alone a 2005 game like Oblivion. Again, I'm dead serious when I say these Pokemon environments look about as untreated as an out-of-the-box $25 forest asset on Daz3D. If they went out of their way to design the world the way it is in the trailer, they could've just purchased 3D assets online then toonified it.



  • @sheria

    Minecraft looks good though. Simplicity is one thing but Minecraft doesn't look like cheap shit. Even if you don't like the style, its still a polished aesthetic choice. New Pokemon actually looks inconsistent in it's style.

    Again, I argue it's dated science and logic that kids don't want something difficult or complex. It's great that gaming is trying to be more accessible and provide options for any type of child but I literally have 4 year old kids in my family who know their way around an iPad and play a variety of complex and stimulating games. They like games with simple visuals (i.e. white background and characters, picking up red objects), as well as more visually complex games (i.e. The Sims 4, Mario, Minecraft).

    My teacher friends say the same thing about kids nowadays.



  • The Pokemon problem is a combination of Game Freak not having any prior experience with any kind of game world that wasn't a top-down grid prior to 2018's 2019's (yikes) Sword & Shield, and Game Freak being given too much autonomy. Neither The Pokemon Company nor Nintendo (outside of their Mario Club testing department) interfere with or assist Game Freak in Pokemon development.

    Going by Sword & Shield's credits, Game Freak has a lot of employees and has a lot of outside companies helping out, but they're still the sole project managers, and they just don't have the experience for anything bigger.



  • For me I was never fan of Pokemon's art direction, Im bigger fan of Shin Megami Tensei series.

    Pokemon is made to have mass appeal, SMT other hand have Demon designs that not gonna appeal to everyone but I personally love them.
    This is one of my favourite new Demon design in SMT.
    alt text


  • Banned

    Minecraft was made with a specific voxel art style in mind, by a single person, and sold for 15 bux.

    Pokemon is made by one of the most prolific development houses in the industry which employs literally thousands of people and will sell for 60 bux.

    @DIPSET As a teacher, the idea that kids prefer simplicity is pretty dumb and misguided. Kids like gigantic colorful clusterfucks like Fortnite. My class has about 40+ kids in it ranging from ages 5 to 12 and every single one of them loses their shit over Fortnite.

    GaneFreak aren't going for simple, they are just really, really lazy.



  • @el-shmiablo said in General Pokemon Thread:

    GaneFreak aren't going for simple, they are just really, really lazy.

    Few if any game developers are lazy. A lack of ambition/stuck in a rut/slow to evolve are better descriptors.



  • Shall we move on?

    Not only are these the same fucking "defend this" arguments we've heard over and over ad nauseam for years now, but they're dipping into the usual disingenuous territory. I don't even think the person presenting the argument actually cares. It just feels like baiting arguments and trying to derail the topic into the usual BS. There's a whole other topic for Sword and Shield already full of this crap. There's a reason I didn't make topics for the new games myself. They're not fun to discuss in an environment like this. Shit like this is why these forums are super dead. If you don't like a thing this much, you can just hide the topic instead of ruining it for everyone. Literally who cares at this point? All the arguments have already been argued. Sword and Shield sold record numbers anyways, and those games were pretty terrible. No amount of attacking GameFreak as developers or arguing against the new Pokemon game you're not happy with is going to stop it, so stop wasting everyone's time with harassment campaigns attacking the developer and the fans every time marketing tweets a new snippet of information or posts a new look at the game.

    I'm just glad Legends Arceus isn't whipping out a new regional gimmick while watering down what made Pokemon good like the last few. Whether you're into it from a graphical / technical standpoint or not, they're finally trying some new stuff with the series that could improve all future games down the line. They're also trying to directly address the complaints from the last game. We can see from the Ponyta shot in the trailer that Pokemon no longer do the silly pivot on a dime turns and have proper turning animations now. Despite the people above cherrypicking the exact same zoomed out landscape view trailer shot above, seriously go back and look because they posted the exact same shot THREE times, GameFreak did generally improve the way the trees look from the last game after the endless N64 tree jokes. They're not still doing the exact same thing they have been with combat and are instead trying out something new for that to see if there's ways to push forward the combat of the main games while retaining the traditional Pokemon feel of it.

    Just for the record, I don't mind hearing ACTUAL criticisms for the games, but it is always the least qualified people to discuss the topic parroting the same misinformed statements while passing around the same specific images created solely to attack the game. You can make any game look bad this way. All I'm asking for here, the lowest of low bars, is that the discussion remains about the actual coming games themselves, rather than quickly devolving into attacking GameFreak as developers as always or trying to throw this on Nintendo because console wars. The game ran like absolute ass the first time they showed it. Now it runs better but took an obvious graphical hit. I'll take that trade any day in a game that's going for more action in an open world game.

    There's plenty of changes for this game that have room to be discussed and people will have different feelings about, depending on what they like or dislike in Pokemon games. We don't need to keep harping about open world textures endlessly here. Passing around the specific worst images of the game you can find does not make you Digital Foundry.



  • @mbun said in General Pokemon Thread:

    fucking, etc.

    We were having a fairly reasonable discussion about Game Freak's development style until YOU brought the vitriol.

    To those to wish to unilaterally shut down discussion because THEY think it's tired and disingenuous, there ARE in fact arguments to be made about the state of the mainline Pokemon games.

    I don't believe Game Freak -- the developer who is in charge of the flagship entries of the world's most valuable media franchise -- being late to the party with large/open worlds which are incredibly popular and well suited to the Pokemon concept, and not making them look particularly impressive compared to most (all?) other competition of their stature, is a design decision.

    Game Freak's track record clearly points to a lack of experience in making that type of game. When Pokemon Red & Green were released on an 8-bit handheld, Nintendo was making Super Mario 64, and Bethesda was making Daggerfall. You can throw more resources at them, but they are flat-out behind other companies in the experience needed for the AAA titles of today. And it is NOT shameful for people to want a high production value open-world experience for a game centered around hundreds of wild creatures.



  • @oscillator said:

    We were having a fairly reasonable discussion about Game Freak's development style until YOU brought the vitriol.

    Not using swears does not mean a fair, reasonable discussion that wasn't attacking the developer or even just other forum members was being had before.

    To those to wish to unilaterally shut down discussion because THEY think it's tired and disingenuous, there ARE in fact arguments to be made about the state of the mainline Pokemon games.

    Are there? It just feels like going in circles at this point. Again, check the topic here for Sword and Shield. Everything that can be said has already been said, and all that has done is given people a jumping off point for immediately dismissing all the arguments for why things probably are the way they are to insist on their narrative that GameFreak are just greedy lazy fucks exploiting everyone with Nintendo's backing, yadda yadda yadda. We should be past this already. Sword and Shield are over. There's a new game. The developers are showing they're listening to criticisms and responding to them. They're going the furthest we've ever seen them go before to innovate on the formula for the people who demand this of them, even though sales clearly show the majority are fine enough with the way things have been to keep supporting the franchise. They even gave Stantler an evolution after the NatDex crew whined and made Stantler their champion for a Pokemon we'd never ever see again, because it is obscure and there'd be no reason to ever include it in another game.

    Harping on the visuals, especially when you're cherrypicking ones to harp on, does not make for a productive discussion. Any other place that discusses Pokemon would mark stuff like that as bait / troll posts, and after not that long people would recognize people are spamming that stuff just to derail and shut down any meaningful discussion. Other places already would have moved on to discussing other aspects of the game, but here the moment people try to, it always gets dragged back to this.

    Notice how a certain someone left a comment. Nobody touched it. Everyone was willing to let an opinion be an opinion and that be that, but then because nobody responded to it they left another comment. Then the usual fighting begins. Then they shut down the person who made the topic with an insane accusation that's hard to tell whether they were joking or not and is directly about attacking someone's character. Thread dies for five days, because nobody wants to bother with the environment created around it. This person comes back after grabbing images made solely for attacking the game, not fair comparison shots, but that doesn't really matter because even if they weren't pushing it to the extremes, we all know visuals aren't the game's strength. They then use this to steer the entire topic's discussion back to a point of "defend this", preaccuse any opposition of "blindly gargling Nintendo's load", and use the arguments of the last time we did this exact same shit to immediately dismiss all the reasons for why things probably are the way they are just to waste people's time of having to think of different reasons, which they'll surely immediately dismiss at the start the next time we do this.

    I brought the vitriol huh? Because I'm cursing? There's far worse things than cursing already here, and they're why I'm cursing.