General Pokemon Thread


  • Banned

    Minecraft was made with a specific voxel art style in mind, by a single person, and sold for 15 bux.

    Pokemon is made by one of the most prolific development houses in the industry which employs literally thousands of people and will sell for 60 bux.

    @DIPSET As a teacher, the idea that kids prefer simplicity is pretty dumb and misguided. Kids like gigantic colorful clusterfucks like Fortnite. My class has about 40+ kids in it ranging from ages 5 to 12 and every single one of them loses their shit over Fortnite.

    GaneFreak aren't going for simple, they are just really, really lazy.



  • @el-shmiablo said in General Pokemon Thread:

    GaneFreak aren't going for simple, they are just really, really lazy.

    Few if any game developers are lazy. A lack of ambition/stuck in a rut/slow to evolve are better descriptors.



  • Shall we move on?

    Not only are these the same fucking "defend this" arguments we've heard over and over ad nauseam for years now, but they're dipping into the usual disingenuous territory. I don't even think the person presenting the argument actually cares. It just feels like baiting arguments and trying to derail the topic into the usual BS. There's a whole other topic for Sword and Shield already full of this crap. There's a reason I didn't make topics for the new games myself. They're not fun to discuss in an environment like this. Shit like this is why these forums are super dead. If you don't like a thing this much, you can just hide the topic instead of ruining it for everyone. Literally who cares at this point? All the arguments have already been argued. Sword and Shield sold record numbers anyways, and those games were pretty terrible. No amount of attacking GameFreak as developers or arguing against the new Pokemon game you're not happy with is going to stop it, so stop wasting everyone's time with harassment campaigns attacking the developer and the fans every time marketing tweets a new snippet of information or posts a new look at the game.

    I'm just glad Legends Arceus isn't whipping out a new regional gimmick while watering down what made Pokemon good like the last few. Whether you're into it from a graphical / technical standpoint or not, they're finally trying some new stuff with the series that could improve all future games down the line. They're also trying to directly address the complaints from the last game. We can see from the Ponyta shot in the trailer that Pokemon no longer do the silly pivot on a dime turns and have proper turning animations now. Despite the people above cherrypicking the exact same zoomed out landscape view trailer shot above, seriously go back and look because they posted the exact same shot THREE times, GameFreak did generally improve the way the trees look from the last game after the endless N64 tree jokes. They're not still doing the exact same thing they have been with combat and are instead trying out something new for that to see if there's ways to push forward the combat of the main games while retaining the traditional Pokemon feel of it.

    Just for the record, I don't mind hearing ACTUAL criticisms for the games, but it is always the least qualified people to discuss the topic parroting the same misinformed statements while passing around the same specific images created solely to attack the game. You can make any game look bad this way. All I'm asking for here, the lowest of low bars, is that the discussion remains about the actual coming games themselves, rather than quickly devolving into attacking GameFreak as developers as always or trying to throw this on Nintendo because console wars. The game ran like absolute ass the first time they showed it. Now it runs better but took an obvious graphical hit. I'll take that trade any day in a game that's going for more action in an open world game.

    There's plenty of changes for this game that have room to be discussed and people will have different feelings about, depending on what they like or dislike in Pokemon games. We don't need to keep harping about open world textures endlessly here. Passing around the specific worst images of the game you can find does not make you Digital Foundry.



  • @mbun said in General Pokemon Thread:

    fucking, etc.

    We were having a fairly reasonable discussion about Game Freak's development style until YOU brought the vitriol.

    To those to wish to unilaterally shut down discussion because THEY think it's tired and disingenuous, there ARE in fact arguments to be made about the state of the mainline Pokemon games.

    I don't believe Game Freak -- the developer who is in charge of the flagship entries of the world's most valuable media franchise -- being late to the party with large/open worlds which are incredibly popular and well suited to the Pokemon concept, and not making them look particularly impressive compared to most (all?) other competition of their stature, is a design decision.

    Game Freak's track record clearly points to a lack of experience in making that type of game. When Pokemon Red & Green were released on an 8-bit handheld, Nintendo was making Super Mario 64, and Bethesda was making Daggerfall. You can throw more resources at them, but they are flat-out behind other companies in the experience needed for the AAA titles of today. And it is NOT shameful for people to want a high production value open-world experience for a game centered around hundreds of wild creatures.



  • @oscillator said:

    We were having a fairly reasonable discussion about Game Freak's development style until YOU brought the vitriol.

    Not using swears does not mean a fair, reasonable discussion that wasn't attacking the developer or even just other forum members was being had before.

    To those to wish to unilaterally shut down discussion because THEY think it's tired and disingenuous, there ARE in fact arguments to be made about the state of the mainline Pokemon games.

    Are there? It just feels like going in circles at this point. Again, check the topic here for Sword and Shield. Everything that can be said has already been said, and all that has done is given people a jumping off point for immediately dismissing all the arguments for why things probably are the way they are to insist on their narrative that GameFreak are just greedy lazy fucks exploiting everyone with Nintendo's backing, yadda yadda yadda. We should be past this already. Sword and Shield are over. There's a new game. The developers are showing they're listening to criticisms and responding to them. They're going the furthest we've ever seen them go before to innovate on the formula for the people who demand this of them, even though sales clearly show the majority are fine enough with the way things have been to keep supporting the franchise. They even gave Stantler an evolution after the NatDex crew whined and made Stantler their champion for a Pokemon we'd never ever see again, because it is obscure and there'd be no reason to ever include it in another game.

    Harping on the visuals, especially when you're cherrypicking ones to harp on, does not make for a productive discussion. Any other place that discusses Pokemon would mark stuff like that as bait / troll posts, and after not that long people would recognize people are spamming that stuff just to derail and shut down any meaningful discussion. Other places already would have moved on to discussing other aspects of the game, but here the moment people try to, it always gets dragged back to this.

    Notice how a certain someone left a comment. Nobody touched it. Everyone was willing to let an opinion be an opinion and that be that, but then because nobody responded to it they left another comment. Then the usual fighting begins. Then they shut down the person who made the topic with an insane accusation that's hard to tell whether they were joking or not and is directly about attacking someone's character. Thread dies for five days, because nobody wants to bother with the environment created around it. This person comes back after grabbing images made solely for attacking the game, not fair comparison shots, but that doesn't really matter because even if they weren't pushing it to the extremes, we all know visuals aren't the game's strength. They then use this to steer the entire topic's discussion back to a point of "defend this", preaccuse any opposition of "blindly gargling Nintendo's load", and use the arguments of the last time we did this exact same shit to immediately dismiss all the reasons for why things probably are the way they are just to waste people's time of having to think of different reasons, which they'll surely immediately dismiss at the start the next time we do this.

    I brought the vitriol huh? Because I'm cursing? There's far worse things than cursing already here, and they're why I'm cursing.



  • ^ You seem to be mad about stuff that happened in another thread. Just let this one be.



  • @oscillator I responded to things happening in this topic directly related to a previous related topic. I responded to a conversation that's already been had being forced to happen all over again, so that's all people are funneled to focus on for the new game. Don't try to u mad xD dismiss me either. We just went through years of the developer being harassed at every turn, because of the exact kind of behavior in this topic misinforming people and riling up a mob against them.

    Fuck harassment campaigns. Fuck console wars. If that's what someone is using these forums to engage in, I have no qualms pointing that out. I will not "just like this one be".


  • Banned

    @mbun If you can't defend your side of the argument, you could just say so instead of trying to attack my character, throwing out a dozen or so logical fallacies and going on a highly hypocritical rant.



  • @mbun said in General Pokemon Thread:

    Fuck harassment campaigns. Fuck console wars.

    All I know is that I'm not doing either of those. I'm trying to make logical points.


  • Banned

    If a company does something wrong or releases a poor product, are we not allowed to criticize that?
    Halo Infinite looked like trash. People pointed it out. 343 fixed it. Is it honestly too much to hope that Nintendo/GameFreak might do the same with their games, or are we just relegated to believing that this series will never surpass this mediocrity?

    Arguing that "the majority of consumers are used to getting fleeced" is really dumb and the reason these companies continue to push out low effort, low quality schlock like this. They know they have a rabid fanbase that will blindly defend any and all criticism, even if it is completely valid.



  • @mbun said in General Pokemon Thread:

    but it is always the least qualified people to discuss the topic parroting the same misinformed statements while passing around the same specific images created solely to attack the game.

    Honestly, I feel like saying someone like myself is unqualified to discuss Pokemon is like saying your 10 year old neighbour shouldn't have opinions on Star Wars since she wasn't around in the 80s. Pokemon is pop culture. Pokemon quite literally brings me some of the most joyous warmth of my childhood in the same way eating my grandmothers home cooking can make me nostalgic for the past.

    I haven't ravenously consumed every Pokemon game in eons because I stopped liking them (art direction as a major reason for that). But I don't accept that I'm unqualified to talk about these things because I'm not a) a Pokemon fanatic anymore, or b) a child.

    My criticisms and expectations for Pokemon are quite literally drawn from base level market competition for a AAA publisher and IP.

    I've never been malicious and even originally stated that I appreciate the adventure/exploration direction of Pokemon Legends. To me, art direction is massively important and I think it's reasonable for me to expect a bit more.



  • @dipset Wasn't referring to you. All you did was grab two parts of the trailer and show exactly how some shots look way better than others.

    @Oscillator Wasn't referring to you either. I thought my previous post would've made it crystal clear exactly who I was referring to.



  • @mbun said in General Pokemon Thread:

    @dipset Wasn't referring to you. All you did was grab two parts of the trailer and show exactly how some shots look way better than others.

    @Oscillator Wasn't referring to you either. I thought my previous post would've made it crystal clear exactly who I was referring to.

    You expressed general disdain for the ongoing criticism of Game Freak/the direction of the mainline Pokemon games.



  • @oscillator I said fair criticism is fine. People riling up a mob to harass GameFreak and accusing developers of being lazy, something you rebuked earlier, is the shit we don't need in these forums.


  • Banned

    Literally who is tiling up a mob? That is a hilarious exaggeration if there ever was one, but then again you think I have sock accounts on this forums so clearly your paranoia is reaching uncomfortable levels.

    Is it really so unfathomable that they just might actually be lazy because, as I have already said and you made abundantly clear, the fans will still buy it regardless of quality and defend any and all criticisms with almost religious zeal?



  • @el-shmiablo If someone is "lazy" then being game developer is lasting they want to do, there is lot of factor about why GameFreak wont go all out with Pokémon series but being "lazy" is not one of them.

    In my opinion "lazy" is poor argument.



  • @el-shmiablo Laziness is a false concept to me. People who are blamed for being lazy probably don't have the incentive to do more productive things. You need reward in order to work harder.





  • @el-shmiablo said in General Pokemon Thread:

    Literally who is tiling up a mob? That is a hilarious exaggeration if there ever was one, but then again you think I have sock accounts on this forums so clearly your paranoia is reaching uncomfortable levels.

    Is it really so unfathomable that they just might actually be lazy because, as I have already said and you made abundantly clear, the fans will still buy it regardless of quality and defend any and all criticisms with almost religious zeal?

    I replied to @Mbun in as chill a demeanor I could muster to try and cool the situation...then you go and light it up again. -_-

    There are many words better used ahead of "lazy" -- inexperienced, stuck in a rut, inflexible, narrow-minded, oblivious, surrounded by yes men/gushing fans, surrounded by people who see problems but don't want to/are afraid to/are somehow prevented from butting in; and so on.

    I personally think it's a combination of the first two options, with the bulk of the weight on inexperience, plus a bit of TPC/Nintendo not wanting to butt in for a variety of reasons.


  • Banned

    @oscillator Sorry but I just can't think of any other way that a game by a studio with as much success as Nintendo/GaneFreak has seen could produce a game that ends up looking like this.

    0_1629970160336_gameplay-battle-10-1629297092572_dp74.jpg
    (oh look I even used a different screenshot!)

    Inexperienced with the hardware? It's been almost 5 years since it released, and other devs have been able to achieve monumentally better results on the same hardware, or even on hardware that is almost 2 decades old.
    Why have they been unable to train their employees properly to use the hardware they will be developing for? Are they unable to hire people who are familiar with the hardware? Are they unable to ask other developers within their circle how to better utilize it?

    So instead of "lazy", should I use complacent? Unwilling?